Knock of Doom

[Cutter]

Hi all

My newish to me 109 euro spec 2.6l SIII has been keeping me since purchasing in February. I posted on the board earlier about getting her tuned up, which I think is just about done. I ended up getting a new needle for the zenith and rebuilding it, adjusting the valves, changed the filters, etc etc. However now that it seems to be running well, there's a knocking noise appearing. At first I thought it was coming from the transmission- it would occur only when I came to a stop from reasonable driving speeds, clutch out, out of gear. But after a while the noise got louder and occurred more often- now under load within a specific RPM range as well as the previous stopped sound.

I rode on the bumper with my head under the hood as my friend drove the truck around(very scary) with his head out the window and thought it was coming from the valves( previous to adjusting) which I promptly adjusted. No change, but honestly I'm not even positive that is where the noise is coming from. I have a recording of the sound that is pretty bad, so I'll try to make a new one and post it.

Any ideas what might be causing it, or hints on pinpointing the sound?

[Linus Tremaine]

You should try listening to the engine with a long wooden dowel. Press it up to your ear and touch it in various places on the engine. You can hear sounds much better this way. You can also use a hose in the same manner to isolate sounds from certain areas.

The 2.6 distributor drive shaft can make alot of noise if its worn out. Listen to the top end of the engine and then you might want to lay under it while its running and listen around the bottom.

Watch the moving parts!

[49coe]

Check the driveshaft/u-joints and the parking brake. If it is only happening while driving/under load it is more likely drivetrain related than engine.

[Cosmic88]

Hi all

I ended up getting a new needle for the zenith and rebuilding it, adjusting the valves, changed the filters, etc etc.

Where did you get a replacement needle? I have been trying to find one for my Zeith 36. I'd appreciate the help.... sorry I can't help diagnose your noise prob.

[scott]

You should try listening to the engine with a long wooden dowel. ...

you can also use a big@$$ screw driver, place an ear over the end of the handle and touch the tip to various places. you'll be amazed at how you can zero in on a knock'n noise source, just be careful when listening to No. 1, it'd be a drag having the fan belt rip a screw driver or dowl out of your hand with your face right there

[greenmeanie]

Where did you get a replacement needle? I have been trying to find one for my Zeith 36. I'd appreciate the help.... sorry I can't help diagnose your noise prob.

IIRC the 2.6L has a Zenith Stromberg 175CD. If you are looking for parts for these carbs Joe Curto in NY is a very useful man to talk to. Google him and then give him a phone. If you get into engine mods and tuning so you understand what the needle taper does, the early ZS175CD with the adjustment nut on the base of the float bowl can also be converted to use SU needles for a much wider range of choices.

[Cutter]

Where did you get a replacement needle? I have been trying to find one for my Zeith 36. I'd appreciate the help.... sorry I can't help diagnose your noise prob.

IIRC the 2.6L has a Zenith Stromberg 175CD. If you are looking for parts for these carbs Joe Curto in NY is a very useful man to talk to. Google him and then give him a phone. If you get into engine mods and tuning so you understand what the needle taper does, the early ZS175CD with the adjustment nut on the base of the float bowl can also be converted to use SU needles for a much wider range of choices.

Yep- Joe Curto is the guy to talk to- the stromberg in the 2.6 is a different bird than the usual 2.25 zenith carb. I ended up ordering the needle from Burlen in UK because he didn't have the proper one in stock- http://www.sucarb.co.uk/

Thanks for the tips- I have both dowels and big ass screwdriver, excited to try them out.


Check the driveshaft/u-joints and the parking brake. If it is only happening while driving/under load it is more likely drivetrain related than engine.

I greased the U joints recently and they seemed like they were in ok shape, but since the noise continues when the truck is standing at a light it seems like they aren't to blame. Parking brake is ok, and was recently replaced along with the transfer box by the PO.

[Cutter]

I tried the screwdriver trick, and while the noise was definitely amplified, it wasn't any easier to locate. It sounds like valve noise, I can hear the healthy clicking noise, and this sounded like it maybe was at the same tempo but could have easily been related to RPM- At times it also seemed like it might be deeper in - which really doesn't help diagnose it at all. I might get a stethoscope but its so loud when it occurs that you can hear it just about everywhere. Maybe I'll try to get a good recording of it.

Supposedly the PO replaced the engine bearings at some point.

I'm going to work on some easy stuff today like rebuilding the window tracks and prepping the chassis for some paint.

[Cutter]

:eek: :eek: so i was futzing around and checked the oil- NONE! I had just changed the oil 200km ago so wasn't expecting that. I think maybe I found the knocking culprit, but now I have to figure out where it all went! The underside has always been oily but I'll get filthy and clean it all off and see what gets wet first.

[Cutter]

I drove around last night and the knocking was gone- for about 20 minutes, and then it slowly started to return. I kick myself for not checking as I was driving but as I returned home the oil pressure gauge was about 30 or so, and usually it reads around 50 when I'm driving. So in 30 minutes it lost enough oil for the noise to return. I wiped things down and left some cardboard under the truck to find where it was leaking. Seems the oil filter enclosure leaks. I put the o-ring included with the filter on it when I changed the filter, but it didn't have one on when I removed it. Its as tight as I dare make it.

There wasn't much oil left on the cardboard, but I imagine when driving the leak is accelerated?

[LaneRover]

You can tighten the original oil filter canister too much. Once I had a leak and it went away when I loosened the bolt a little. Are you sure there was no o-ring or is the old o-ring jammed up inside? First, check the o-ring for damage and make sure that the matting surfaces are clean and undamaged. Then I would put oil in, start her up and check around the housing tightening/loosening it until you find a sweet spot. If need be have a friend rev her up while you watch the canister housing to help you see if that is where the leak is.

Until you find the leak I would get REALLY cheap oil so you don't spend a fortune!

Brent

[Cutter]

Dredging this up- I finally got the truck to a shop, and they confirmed my worst fears- the engine bearings are shot, I held out hope that it was the clutch but I knew in the back of mind it was the engine bearing. The engine has 72k km on it, and the bearings were swapped out by the PO. Apparently he did it wrong so the bearings are shot. The shop I took it to isn't able to do the work.

Has anyone had to have a shop replace the bearings and can give me a ballpark? I don't have the time or tools to do this. I'm thinking the closest place is the Specialty Vehicles in Jamestown RI. Obviously I want to drive it as little as possible, anyone know anybody in the RI area who has experience on Rovers?

[graniterover]

I actually have an engine at my house in NH. I don't know the condition, but it could be fine. It's in a chassis that I own, but the engine is owned by another guy. I'm pretty sure he'd sell it. I believe it's 100% complete. It's a NADA 109 so it's got the westlake head. PM me if you're interested and I'll get in touch with my friend. I need to get it out of here and I'm pretty sure he doesn't want it.

[Cutter]

I might be interested, depending on mileage, condition and cost. The engine in mine really is in good shape, apart from the bearings which I wish the old owner just left alone. I haven't had any communications to him returned, so I think he will likely never resurface. Shame since he still has a box of parts from when I bought it in March.

If I'm going to swap an engine I would prefer a TDI (who wouldn't), but financially I doubt I could swing it.

[graniterover]

I'm just thinking I could put a can of gas and a battery on it and see if it starts. I'll throw some oil in the jugs first. A little busy with life at the moment but I expect the weekend to clear a little bit for me.
I kind of agree that if the rest of the engine is working, maybe just rebuilding would be the best bet.

[daveb]

assuming the parts are available this should be a doddle.

engine out,
remove exhaust and intake manifolds
place upside down on a spare tire
remove clutch flywheel and bellhousing
remove oil pan
check bearing clearances rods and mains using plastigauge
remove crankshaft and take to machine shop for checking
replace crankshaft and bearings
torque to spec and check clearance using plastigauge
replace oil pan
" flywheel
" clutch with new
" bellhousing
" engine


I'm just thinking I could put a can of gas and a battery on it and see if it starts. I'll throw some oil in the jugs first. A little busy with life at the moment but I expect the weekend to clear a little bit for me.
I kind of agree that if the rest of the engine is working, maybe just rebuilding would be the best bet.

[Cutter]

I talked with a local engine shop that is of the opinion that if the bearings are going, the whole engine should be broken to ensure that the cylinders haven't been scored with debris, and is quoting "in the thousands" to do it. Makes sense, costs too much, so most likely I'm going to buy and engine hoist and do it myself. Still waiting to hear back from Rover Specialty Vehicles in Jamestown.

[scott]

cutter

i pulled my 2.25, removed the manifolds and dropped it off at the machinist. he is a friend of a friend so i got a bit of a deal. less than $1800 and that's with new main bearings, new rod bearing, new pistons bored from .030 to .060 not cuz it needed it just cuz i want more displacement, new 2.5 cam, new (rebuilt head bought as a unit) new rear and front main seals, new timing belt & gears, crank balanced.

i told him to take his time and he did it when things were slow in his shop. he had it for about 2 months.

so make friends with a good machinist, then shop around for parts. i call it patience, orthers call it being slow. my 88 died in sept and i started it for the first time last week. but that was due in part to a down to the frame resto from the seats forward.