Most Miserable Repair on a Series Land Rover?

[Jeff Aronson]

After spending a LOT of time removing corroded bolts, stuck brake lines and greasy bits underneath the steering column, I'm voting for a II-A master cylinder replacement as the most miserable repair on a Series II-A.

About the only good news was that at least I ordered the correct master cylinder.

All this and I haven't even bench-bled the thing and tried to muscle it back into it's tiny hole in the bulkhead.

So what's your vote for the miserable repair on a Series Rover?

Jeff

[G.G. Sprock]

Well, I am not a font of information, but so far a complete restoration is a bit of a pain...:thumb-up:

[greenmeanie]

As of today I can safely say it is replacing the headliner on a 109 after pack rats have got in there and built a nest. The truck came from a ranch in Colorado and the smell inside told me I had something to look forward to.

First of all a new headliner is needed because the old will stink no matter what I throw at it and secondly the deluge of poo and other stuff meant I had to go shower afterwards. Now the whole truck and garage will need hosed out too.

Oil and grease I can deal with, skinned knuckles are normal and balancing on my head whilst performing keyhole surgery is just part of the fun. This on the other hand....I really could have done without.

[Cosmic88]

I have to put in my vote for PO botched work / maintenance as the worst thing to have to deal with on a Series Land Rover. There are the stupid modifications, rats-nest-style rewirings and worst of all poorly installed parts (generally with zinc or other highly corrosion prone fasteners). Not only are these obstacles counterproductive to a smooth running and reliable Rover but the frustration with incompetance is, seemingly, always around the corner when delving into a rebuild of a newly aquired truck. I've lost track of the number of times I have said, "what was that moron thinking!?"

[jac04]

(generally with zinc or other highly corrosion prone fasteners).
You mean zinc plated fasteners? What else are you going to use for applications requiring high strength? Yes, you can purchase high-strength stainless fasteners from specialty hardware suppliers, but it's crazy expensive.

Anyhow, back to Jeff's question. Like G.G. Sprock, I'm in the middle of a restoration and I'm not having as much fun now as I was when I started. However, I'm in the middle of refurbing the font axle assembly (new: diff input seal, diff gasket, axle case seals, swivel ball seals, wheel bearings & seals, brake wheel cylinders & lines & brake shoes & steady posts & springs & drums - plus it's my first time working on 11" brakes). At the moment, I'm finding this to be a very miserable job.

[badvibes]

[quote=greenmeanie]As of today I can safely say it is replacing the headliner on a 109 quote]

greenmeanie-

I didn't do the replacement as I am but a poor Rover owner, but my headliner was trashed. So living out here in the warm southwest I thought I'd pull the trashed headliner out and run with just bare metal over my head. OMG that excelsior-like material that is molecularly bonded to the top with what must be the Devil's own coal tar adhesive was less than enjoyable to remove. Hours with a wire wheel over my head, I relate to the needing a shower afterwards thing. That black debris raining down from above as it came grudgingly off coated everything inside and out. Anybody know what they actually used as adhesive for the insulation? Not a technically difficult "repair" but certainly miserable.

Jeff

[Terrys]

A total restoration is nothing more than an accumulation of miserable tasks, pleasant tasks, time consuming detail , and mindless diversion.
Yesterday's task, complete with a mix of total exhaustion and satisfaction, was the removal and replacement of all pressed in spring bushings on my '64 88. The springs (11 leaf originals) were castoffs from a previous restoration that went parabolic, so the "job" didn't include removing a set from a truck, and then re-installing them. I just want to have this set ready when the tail end gets it's new rear Xmember.
Jeff, BTDT on the master cylinder, but clutch MCs on a LHD are worse yet.
I've tried all approaches at one point, on various trucks. They include (A)the simple (and perhaps hardest) removing and replacing just the MC; (B)removing the left wing and then doing (A), and, (C) removing the pedal box, setting up the MC travel and reinstalling. My life will be more complete when my next clutch MC job is (B+C).

[Jeff Aronson]

Yes, I may face the clutch MC next because the lines from that cylinder to the common reservoir seem to be so corroded in place that their fittings won't turn.

I'll second a misery factor for the spring bushings - another miserable job.

As for the headliner adhesive, Pete Janney at Badger Engineering claims it will "burn off." Oops.....

Jeff

[SeriesShorty]

What perfect timing for this thread...I swear after last evenings task I had thought of posting a similar topic. :thumb-up:

It may seem silly, but of all the work I've done on my Disco, an engine rebuild on a P38 and just the few minor things I've done to the Series, I'm gonna have to say the most miserable job has been installing new pedal covers. Geeez Louise, bending those thick steel tabs on the Allmakes brand pad kit is just ridiculous! I even prebent them using pliers but still found it frustrating to try to complete the bends to secure to the pedals. My hands are so sore from squeezing for what seemed like an hour.

[LaneRover]

What ever repair has to be done at night, along the road, in the wet snow AND that requires crawling underneath.

[Jeff Aronson]

That would be the time that the lights stopped working one night just outside of Sanford, ME. I had to hotwire around the dimmer switch.

Or it could have been the time that the overdrive hypoid plug fell out somewhere between Caribou and Kennebunk, ME, although I did replace the final drive in a snowbank in daylight.

There's too many more....

Jeff

[thixon]

Seriesshorty
Next time clamp the pads to the pedals and then you can
Beat the tabs down with a hammer.

[carl k]

I vote for replacing shackle bushings or trying to remove a rusty steering relay.

Replacing the three screws that hold the speedo cable to the transmission is no walk in the park either.

Carl K.

[jac04]

^^Ooooh, I forgot about the steering relay! Yes, very miserable. I gave up and split the frame open.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/000_1209.jpg

[junkyddog11]

I do most of these things on a daily basis and enjoy every minute of it. Having a lift and some really large banging tools helps allot....I'm not sure if I could do it at all if I was crawling around on the floor, with no room to swing tools, unablke to get my head far enough away from the thing to focus myself.

Writing bills....keeping track of invoices....running the damn business side....that is the worst part of working on Series rigs for me.

[greenmeanie]

greenmeanie-
OMG that excelsior-like material that is molecularly bonded to the top with what must be the Devil's own coal tar adhesive was less than enjoyable to remove. Hours with a wire wheel over my head, I relate to the needing a shower afterwards thing. That black debris raining down from above as it came grudgingly off coated everything inside and out. Anybody know what they actually used as adhesive for the insulation? Not a technically difficult "repair" but certainly miserable.

Jeff[/quote]

Jeff,
I think the secret here is to keep the stuff cold and make it flake off if that is possible. I got about 90% of the black stuff and its hairy coating off by sitting insude with a 2500psi pressure washer. It works great but you have to be prepared for everything inside the truck to get very, very wet. Fortunately mine has no floor or sides of any sort right now so at least drainage is good.

[daveb]

i got to thinking about that black adhesive. I scraped a bunch of it off of the inside of my 109 HT. It came right off and I got covered in black flakes.

I've heard that some old adhesives like that can contain asbestos. just saying. be careful guys.


greenmeanie-
OMG that excelsior-like material that is molecularly bonded to the top with what must be the Devil's own coal tar adhesive was less than enjoyable to remove. Hours with a wire wheel over my head, I relate to the needing a shower afterwards thing. That black debris raining down from above as it came grudgingly off coated everything inside and out. Anybody know what they actually used as adhesive for the insulation? Not a technically difficult "repair" but certainly miserable.

Jeff

[scott]

What ever repair has to be done at night, along the road, in the wet snow AND that requires crawling underneath.

i'll second this! no snow but on I-40 east of flagstaff in December at about 2 am with a steady 35 mph wind with no gloves and just a light jacket, cleaning a clogged fuel filter with carb cleaner. i thought i was going to lose my freak' fingers.

[JSBriggs]

^^Ooooh, I forgot about the steering relay! Yes, very miserable. I gave up and split the frame open.
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/000_1209.jpg

Good call! I decided to convert to power steering for that exact reason!

-Jeff

[badvibes]

i got to thinking about that black adhesive. I scraped a bunch of it off of the inside of my 109 HT. It came right off and I got covered in black flakes.

I've heard that some old adhesives like that can contain asbestos. just saying. be careful guys.

Well of course it would, getting cancer from that little job would be about the only thing that could make the experience worse. Thanks for the heads up.

Jeff

[CliftonRover]

the black glue on the inside of the series headliners is pretty bad, I spent days trying to get it out of a vehicle. I eventually found a solvent, but it felt like I was going to get poisoned just holding the can. It was some old military stuff my dad had been given years ago.
the steering relay can be bad, the an thing that the tranny needs to be pulled apart for is miserable because of the work required to get it out.
I agree that the suspension bushings in the frame are difficult,

My worst experience was trying to get the kick on wire connected to the solenoid on the stater of the tdi in our 109. you can't reach it without squeezing twisting and burning your arm.
I got my arm into a spot so I could plug the wire in, but my arm was against the hot manifold, and then I could not get my arm free. I will have that scar forever...

good to see that I am not the only one who finds the paper work the most miserable, and I only deal with about one customer a month...

[bobzinak]

I vote for the removal of clutch master cyl. on left hand drive LRS.

[Cosmic88]

[quote=jac04]You mean zinc plated fasteners? What else are you going to use for applications requiring high strength? Yes, you can purchase high-strength stainless fasteners from specialty hardware suppliers, but it's crazy expensive.

Yes it is and in the LONG run ends up being more hassle free and easier on your hands / knuckles and other collateral damage... a few extra cents over years of time is a no brainer decision. Why go cheap with simple things? And a little never-seize on the threads wouldn't be missed either...

[Jeff Aronson]

Now I want to add, for your consideration, the replacement of the front bumper on a II-A.

The task should be simple. The new galvanized bumper, purchased from Rovers North, fit impeccably when offered up to the old bumper. The holes matched up exactly. All that should be required is to remove the 4 bolts that hold the old one in place.

In my case, I took solace in the fact that my bumper had been off the car in 2003, so these bolts should be in great shape. Only a set of Hellas sitting on the bumper would provide an impediment to an easy removal and replacement.

WRONG!

Land Rover cleverly designed the bumper bolts to reside in a cupped area that meant you could not get a ring spanner in there, only an open wrench. And it would help if the 1/2" wrench was of the long "professional mechanic" type, not the shorter standard Craftsman wrenchs that I use.

A 3/8" ratchet would not turn the corroded bolt head so I moved on to my 1/2" heavyweight. Even the larger ratchet required two hand to pull it, which left my right knee to provide leverage to hold the short open end wrench in place. For one bolt I even had to get out my breaker bar. After a pleasant 30 minutes of wrenching, I watched each nut fall to the ground and disappear in the dirt.

So I got out a magnet and found them all. The bolts had been covered with Never-Seize (thank you East Coast Rover!); still, they were a bear to remove. I tried to chase the threads with a tap and die set but found I did not have the right sized unit for these bolts and nuts. So I sprayed them liberally, put on a new coat of Never-Seize, and tried to put the new bumper on.

That's when I discovered proof that Rover must have employed child labor when my II-A was built. No adult hand could hold a washer and nut in place in the tiny inset of the bottom of the bumper. I balanced them on a greasy finger and offered them up to meet the bolt. Cleverly, Rover also designed the inset so you can't see anything from underneath; if you lie on your back, you can't line up the bolt properly. Don't ask me how I know.

One hour later, the new bumper sat on the car, lining up perfectly with the crank hole and pulley. Thank goodness I wasn't charging out for the labor - it would have been an embarrassment.

Will I now learn to search out any large rocks BEFORE tackling an off road route? Yep!

Jeff

[amcordo]

Why do we buy these things?!?!

[4flattires]

..why do we continue to sink money into them?

Jeff

[kevkon]

..why do we continue to sink money into them?

Jeff

Because someone has to?

Because we like fighting a battle that can never be won?

Because it's such a challenge to constantly try to figure out how it's humanly possible to disassemble parts you know were somehow assembled by humans?

Or maybe there's just something enjoyable about keeping a connection to the past alive.

[JayGoss]

Why do we buy these things?!?!


Haha! I have asked myself the same question thousands of times- it's like an addiction and it makes no sense- financially or common sense-wise. I've tried to get off the sauce more times than I can count but then I'll see a Series sputter by and I know I'm in trouble. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'll always have a Rover. Most of my friends think I'm nuts but they've come to accept my, um, problem. Even though they can be a major PITA sometimes you've got to admit there's something therapeutic and rewarding about spending a few hours in the garage tinkering on these guys. I've had the opportunity to work on & own some other marques- but I have yet to find another vehicle that has that magical quality where it becomes a member of the family- with it's own personality and traits. You can sit three Rovers side by side with the same components, mileage, torque settings, etc- each one will drive differently and make different noises than the next- it's wonderful.

Repeat after me: "MY NAME IS ____ AND I AM A ROVER-HOLIC"

I digress. With regard to the subject at hand, I'd have to say that I agree with those who have mentioned rusty steering relay removal and chassis bushings- those are two projects that have resulted in more expletives than I care to count!

[bmohan55]

I know this is old but for those of you who may never have seen it, or have forgotten...

http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Seriesswear.html

[msggunny]

My biggest PITA was the clutch slave cylinder for some odd reason. Had a hell of a time getting the hydro line to line up correctly, not to mention the contortion and doing it laying on my back in my drive way.

Maybe pulling the trany and tcase by myself with a strap and some lower back strength.

or putting the trany and tcase back in with same manual effort

The MC for the clutch and brakes could be considered a mild PITA

Not much else has been too much of a PITA, which is why i like working on my SIII better than working on my 2 Discos...

[vansdonk]

I haven't had the pleasure of really getting in there and replacing alot of parts so far. I have done alittle bit. My most frustrating evolution was the full canvas top. Not because of the truck, because of the help. Just after Christmas last year I received the top in the mail. (UPS man doesn't like us). So of course I have to change out the old, white, moldy, saggy top. But I need a couple extra hands. Mom's watching the little one, 10yo son is spending the night with a friend, husband is on det (again), the 12yo daughter is upstairs locked in her room doing god knows what. So I think this over.....and decide, against the little better judgement voice in my head, to use my girl. I am greated with rolled eyes and a look that makes me think I'm from another planet. But she comes out to help. Remember, just after Christmas, GNW area, there is actually snow on the ground, and about 19* out. But, I have to get this new good looking top on the truck. I have already removed the old one so I ask her to put it in the dumpster while I open the new one up. After I open the new one, put the cardboard in recycle, and the old top in the dumpster, we begin. It's a canvas top, how hard can that be? Well, those little clips above the wind screen can be tough. I get all the clips and rope lined up and ask her to pull the canvas back towards the gate. Pull? What? It's dirty. So I state that it just come out of the box, it's not dirty. I look back to the bed and see she is nowhere in sight. She's sitting in front of the heater in the garage. By the time she makes it back into the back of the truck, the wind had blown the top around abit and I have to start over with step one. This was to be the norm for the entire replacement. Well, 4 hours later, I am done, she is still very warm, and I have a nice looking new truck. Sorry this was so long. Kristi.

[scott]

doing anything in 19* would be classified as a worse repair experience but to do it with a 12 y/o as an assistant, dang!. i recall the pain of using my 17 y/o daughter to help pull my spitfire engine and we were in the garage on a nice day.

[kevkon]

I know what the most miserable repair on a Series is;
It's anything that you think should be no problem!