My new rover, and importing experience

[MSmyth]

Hello all. Newbie here.

A while back I posted in Nick's first thread about my purchase http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6393&page=3 and was asked by Jeff to share my importing experience once completed. Well I just got back from Baltimore Harbor driving my new rig (4+ trouble free hours on the road). No problems with the Rover to report, but my lower back isn't happy (man those stock seats suck... "deluxe" my ass). I'll try not to be too long winded, but for me finding consolidated and accurate info about self-brokering an overseas vehicle was difficult to come by. So agree with my decision or not, I hope that if someone comes across this thread while considering being their own vehicle importation broker, my experience possibly has helped them through the process.

I started seriously looking for my first Rover last June, and after a bit expanded my search outside the US to the UK. I've driven Series Rovers in the past, but never owned one. If you're considering a Series and have not been behind the wheel of one, don't be stupid. These trucks aren't Escalades, heck, they're probably the most uncomfortable vehicle you'll ever drive. They aren't for everyone. They'll punish you, get you greasy, puke fluids on your driveway, and you'll love them for it. I was approached five times with questions about my Rover on the trip home yesterday (three in gas stations, one rest stop, and once by a guy on a motorcycle at a stop light). The coolness factor can't be measured. If you are a lover of old cars, give one a drive BEFORE you buy.

My heart was set on a 109 11 or 12 passenger with the factory rear windows, and did not compromise when my search went on for months. The vehilcle I ended up choosing was a UK 1981 109 Safari, 12 passenger with 43k. My budget for the project was 7k including shipping, taxes, duty, transportation, Baltimore oysters and microbrews, and I came in well under. My criteria wasn't for perfection, rather for a solid vehicle needing TLC (bitsa's need not apply) as close to stock as possible; something I could start driving immediately without major repairs.

I probably researched around 15-20 vehicles both here and abroad before I made my decision. Buying sight unseen isn't for everyone, but I've had good luck as this is my third such purchase. I got a good feel for Jonathan at Churchill Land Rovers http://www.churchill-landrover.com/ and the 109 he had listed. We communicated and shared pics and I decided to go with him.

More info (and pics) to come.

[TSR53]

Welcome aboard with your new Land Rover! Most of the gurus here will help you though any questions you've got with trials and tribulations of Land Rover ownership. You'll get the constant banter of "please post up photos" (let me know if you need help - of course when you have time) and your retrieval story will make a great submission and addition to the Rovers North News. Again, welcome and post away!

[NickDawson]

Really inspiring story - thanks for sharing Msmyth!
Curious how you settled on Churchill and what the experience with them was like. For instance, how did you avoid a MOT reject, just based on their reputation?

[leafsprung]

MOT is not a good measure of condition

[shortbutslow]

Looking forward to the pics!

[MSmyth]

First, a little P0rn:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3546/3527810719_01ed587607.jpg?v=0

Not one of my pics (they're still on the camera), but one sent to me from the seller. She isn't perfect, there are few spot surface rust spots around the grill (rock chips), one small spot of aluminum scaling forward of the left rear tire, the typical surface oxidation on the side steps, door and windshield hinges, etc. Definitely nothing major. Frame is solid although in need of a re-waxoyl, with one very tidy repair (I only wish I could weld plate like that). Door post, sills, bulkhead all look fine. The paint is almost all original and has that nice varied patina that I think just gives Rovers that rough and ready appeal. Rims have been resprayed. Five almost new Goodyears were a bonus. I'd rate the interior as "average", with a few trim pieces missing, a couple small rips in the seats, etc. Oh, also stinky mauve carpet in the cargo area. New mats up front.

Anyway back to the story... once I decided to make the purchase, Jonathan and I discussed my budget. As his normal shipping carrier's pricing would take me over what I wanted to spend, he did some research and came up with a lower priced courier. It saved me money and kept the project in line, but caused us both a bit of grief (I'll explain later). My cost was totaled and the luck of the Irish was with me in that the Pound/Dollar exchange rate was fantastic the day I sent payment. It amazed me how much the rate changes from day to day... when making a purchase into four to five figures, it may pay to watch the trends in the exchange rates and plan accordingly. I was just lucky.

While the shipping arrangement were being finalized, I started my phone calls. First of all, WV Department of Motor Vehicles (representatives hereinafter to be called either Moe, Larry or Curly).

Call #1: Curly says I can't license the Rover in West Virginia because (I kid you not) it is a right hand drive. I retort that postal carriers do it all the time. Curly asks me if I'm a postal carrier. I ask to talk to Curly's supervisor.

His supervisor, Moe, is not in. He will return my call.

Call #2 (after Moe does not call me back): I get to speak to Larry. Larry seems to think there is no way I can legally drive my car in WV, but can't give me a reason why. I again ask to speak to Moe.

Moe, who actually knows his stuff, puts my fears to rest that I've not just purchased a very expensive tool shed and assures me that I can legally drive my vehicle in WV. He forewarns me to be prepared for fun times at my local DMV office with the UK title certificate. He actually laughed.

[galen216]

Skip the DMV and go to ITS titles. They send you a registration and plate from Maine. Then go to the DMV and register the truck as though you are switching state titles. Much easier and no more time.

I did this on my first truck that was a UK import.

[MSmyth]

Skip the DMV and go to ITS titles. They send you a registration and plate from Maine. Then go to the DMV and register the truck as though you are switching state titles. Much easier and no more time.

I did this on my first truck that was a UK import.

Thanks for the info, it is always nice to have a back-up plan. I'm going to give my local office first crack tho... $250 and four weeks is a little steep for something my tax dollar supported state government is "supposed" to be able to accomplish.

[MSmyth]

Really inspiring story - thanks for sharing Msmyth!
Curious how you settled on Churchill and what the experience with them was like. For instance, how did you avoid a MOT reject, just based on their reputation?

I guess I'm just a trusting person, lol.

I really don't know how to answer your question. I like to believe that with enough experience you can get a good feel for the people you choose to deal with, and it has worked pretty good for me so far. Churchill Rovers answered all my questions and furnished me with all the info I asked for, and at no time was there a "surprise!" revelation or the feeling that a Captain Snake oil was just telling me what I wanted to hear. The vehicle was prepped for MOT (although not processed... no need since it was being sent stateside) and at least based on one (long) drive, is exactly as advertised. There is also a warranty on the vehicle, and although that might be a problem given the ocean between us, it does show he stands behind the vehicles he sells locally.

I'm not saying they walk on water, but am simply reflecting my experience with them. Good folks who treated me well. BTW I asked before the Rover arrived in the states if I could link his web site to this thread and he agreed, good, bad or indifferent... shows he had confidence I would be pleased with the final product.

[leafsprung]

I dont import too many trucks but have done maybe 6. Titling them was cake. You need the import papers (showing duty was paid), foreign registration or title, and a VIN inspection (in most states) It was easier than registering a car from a non-title state like vermont. I dont think its worth the hassle of using a title company. The feds are really cracking down on the title companies because of all the fraud associated with them (building new cars and titling them as vintage muscle cars etc)

-Ike

[NickDawson]

I guess I'm just a trusting person, lol.

I really don't know how to answer your question. I like to believe that with enough experience you can get a good feel for the people you choose to deal with, and it has worked pretty good for me so far.

Thanks! thats a great answer - I can understand being an educated consumer :D.

Great pic by the way - looks like a fun truck

[MSmyth]

I dont import too many trucks but have done maybe 6. Titling them was cake. You need the import papers (showing duty was paid), foreign registration or title, and a VIN inspection (in most states) It was easier than registering a car from a non-title state like vermont. I dont think its worth the hassle of using a title company. The feds are really cracking down on the title companies because of all the fraud associated with them (building new cars and titling them as vintage muscle cars etc)

-Ike

I so hope it is that easy... I'm a born, bred and raised West Virginian and therefore know of our tongue-in-cheek unadvertised state motto "Proud of our Nepotism, Incompetence a Plus!".

I'll know for sure tomorrow afternoon.

(BTW, as not to appear too harsh, I am also technically a state employee... work for West Virginia University, a land-grant state college).

More p0rn:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2174/3528622798_2770596c42.jpg?v=0

[bmohan55]

Have many fine memories of Morgantown, being a WVU grad from '79. Actually my first Series ride was on Snake road up to Cheate View with a case of Rolling Rock ponies! May your Series be more reliable than the PRT!

[MSmyth]

Now that I knew it was technically legal to license a RHD import in my state, I addressed the "import" issue. When looking at other overseas Rovers, I was ofttimes referred to an import broker on this side of the pond for logistics. These businesses handled all paperwork, cleared customs for you on your behalf, picked-up the vehicle and many times offered to deliver it to your home. One-stop shopping. With money as no object, not a bad idea. Their fees based on services offered ran from under $1000 all the way up to almost $2000. Yikes! I'd read bits and pieces on how you could do it yourself, but in no one place (including usgov.org) was there a palatable explanation or outline of the procedure, or a documented narrative showing anyone's experience.

After calling around US Customs, I was able to speak to a custom's officer in the Baltimore office (Officer Barnes) that gave me a brief run down on what was expected of me, and how to best prepare. He also agreed to my posting his contact phone number (410-962-3265) so that other interested parties could contact him directly. I must say as a sidebar that every single person I dealt with in Baltimore (downtown customs, Port of Baltimore customs, escort service, shipping company, longshoremen) were great to deal with. Gives me a little hope that customer service may be making a comeback.

Anyway, pertinent advice from Customs (and I agree based on my experience):

1. Make six copies of everything before you leave home. Make twelve if you can. Everywhere I went signs were posted with a variation of "4 copies of your form GVVXXX and title must be furnished to us. WE DON'T MAKE COPIES SO DON'T ASK". Not everyone asked for multiple submissions, but it pays to be prepared.

2. Get a folder, keep all your papers organized. These people live and die by the form. If you go in looking organized, you'll get less scrutiny. The problems I had (with the exception of one oversight on my part) were all honest mistakes by the people I dealt with.

3. Get an early start. You will probably encounter roadblocks along the way, despite your planning. The longshoremen shut down at 3:30 pm so if you haven't picked up your vehicle by then you'll be back tomorrow. Not a pretty prospect if you live hours away like I did.

4. Contract with an Escort Service before you leave home (hey now, not that kind of Escort). Due to Homeland Security regulations, you need to be "escorted" at all times while you are inside the secure gates of the port. Their fees are reasonable ($75 for what ended up being about three hours work) and were a good source of knowledge for someone like me, new to the whole process.

5. Have a great attitude. Go in looking for trouble and you'll find it. Go in with a sense of adventure, the love of a new experience, and even if things go off track they'll work with you. Well, everyone but the longshoremen. Their reputation is true to the letter, lol.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3589/3527810927_bf4eec0bbb.jpg?v=0

[MSmyth]

Have many fine memories of Morgantown, being a WVU grad from '79. Actually my first Series ride was on Snake road up to Cheate View with a case of Rolling Rock ponies! May your Series be more reliable than the PRT!

Small world. I live at the top of Snake Hill.

Oh, and the PRT is down for the summer... maintenance.

[bmohan55]

Planning on going back there this fall for a game, not sure which one yet. Hoping to take the Series just to relive the past, they say you can never go back but nothing prevents you from "visiting the garage" now and then!

So you may see another Series chugging up Snake Hill, Bull Run or Chestnut Ridge fire tower road. Ahh, the memories!

[MSmyth]

Planning on going back there this fall for a game, not sure which one yet. Hoping to take the Series just to relive the past, they say you can never go back but nothing prevents you from "visiting the garage" now and then!

So you may see another Series chugging up Snake Hill, Bull Run or Chestnut Ridge fire tower road. Ahh, the memories!

Let me know if that happens... Pat and I go to most games and like to tailgate. We can do an all Rover/Mountaineer celebration.

[derekchace]

what was the shipping cost and imports taxes cost if I may ask. I am also looking at importing a rover.

[Broadstone]

I shipped two from U.K. to port of Newark in 2003 and paid per vehicle $100 duty and $1500 shipping (Roll on Roll off), plus $9 processing fee. Looked into agents to clear vehicles for me but decided to do it all myself and it was very easy. From getting to the port to actually going down the road on a trailer was 3 hours which I thought was good. Keep in mind duty is based on sale price, Mine was 2.5% per vehicle. Mine were purchased from private owners.

[MSmyth]

what was the shipping cost and imports taxes cost if I may ask. I am also looking at importing a rover.

Total cost, not inclusive of vehicle, was $1450 for shipping Southampton to Baltimore, import duty of 2.5% of vehicle cost, $75 fee for the escort service, and $75.48 for destination freight charges not covered by the shipper.

[MSmyth]

While the shipping arrangement were being finalized, I started my phone calls. First of all, WV Department of Motor Vehicles (representatives hereinafter to be called either Moe, Larry or Curly).

Call #1: Curly says I can't license the Rover in West Virginia because (I kid you not) it is a right hand drive. I retort that postal carriers do it all the time. Curly asks me if I'm a postal carrier. I ask to talk to Curly's supervisor.

His supervisor, Moe, is not in. He will return my call.

Call #2 (after Moe does not call me back): I get to speak to Larry. Larry seems to think there is no way I can legally drive my car in WV, but can't give me a reason why. I again ask to speak to Moe.

Moe, who actually knows his stuff, puts my fears to rest that I've not just purchased a very expensive tool shed and assures me that I can legally drive my vehicle in WV. He forewarns me to be prepared for fun times at my local DMV office with the UK title certificate. He actually laughed.

Update: Just got back from the DMV... I was in and out in 15 minutes. All the paperwork they were looking for to transfer the title was already filled out, as their requiements were almost idential to the forms I had prepared for customs.

Guess this is my lucky day.

[daveb]

This is about equivalent to my experience, though i was out of state when the vehicle arrived, and the escort services had not been established so nobody knew how to get the vehicle off the docks. we ended up paying someone who worked there $50 to do it on their lunch break.

so, any contact info for the escort services?

thanks
Dave

btw...my shipping costs- 735gbp using wallenius s.hampton to b'more
2.5 % duty
75 US port charge
plus a few greenbacks to various folks for their help on both sides of the pond...all in all about the same. when I tell people my total outlay for my 90 they usually don't want to talk to me anymore :)




Total cost, not inclusive of vehicle, was $1450 for shipping Southampton to Baltimore, import duty of 2.5% of vehicle cost, $75 fee for the escort service, and $75.48 for destination freight charges not covered by the shipper.

[MSmyth]

so, any contact info for the escort services?


I used American Ship Service, 410-342-8810. They were good to work with and didn't get their panties in a bunch when we got off schedule due to customs. I'd use them again. Email: amershipser@yahoo.com (amershipser@yahoo.com)

[nate6472]

I imported an 82 SIII this year and the whole experience was very easy. I bought through eBay and my goal was to spend what I am willing to loose. Once the Landy was in the shipper's hands, the risk of loss decreased a lot. Once it hit the US, the paperwork and red tape were very minimal. My only suggestion is get it throughly cleaned in the UK, I had to pay $400 for a sloppy pressure wash (still dirt on the underside) in order for Customs to clear it. Again, the process was easy and will do it again.

[NickDawson]

Just a quick note of thanks to MSymth - been speaking with Johnathan at Chuchhill Rovers. Still not 100% sure I'm going to go that route, but they really are plesant guys to chat with.

They have sent me all the pictures I have asked for and are more than willing to work with my budget (although they admit it may be tight)