Footwell Replacement

[Crash]

I am tackling the bulkead repairs this weekend. Fortunately it is in pretty good shape structurally with most of the rot in the footwells. I have purchased replacment ones from RN. Just how does I go about removing the remnants from the bulkhead?? It looks like they are held in place with spotwelds. On the door post side I have had some luck in separating the pieces but am I into real surgery along the top portions of the footwell? It appears that I am going to have to cut away lots of metal where the footwell connects to the vertical portion fo the bulhead.

Once they are out what is the recomended process to reinstall and at the same time line everything up? Should they be held in with rivets or welded?

Thanks in advance.

Jim

[LaneRover]

They need to be welded to have any real strength.

[scott]

I used an angle grinder w/ a diamond blade and a drummel to cut out the rot I didn't replace the whole footwell. Welded in the patch . Not the prettiest welds but the job is solid, wing and heater cover the uglier side and carpet covers the inside

[49coe]

Use a 1/4" drill to drill out the spotwelds. Where you can access the other side, drill completely through and when you install the new footwells, use the hole to make a new "spotweld". Where you cannot access the other side, just drill enough to break the weld. You should be able to see a line form between the pieces when you are through. Use an old screwdrive/chisel/scraper that you can fit between the two pieces to break/shear the remnants of the spotweld. Cut out the middle and bottom of the old footwells, but leave enough to grab onto so that you can wiggle/flex the old pieces out (in this case metal fatigue can be your friend) It is a tedious PITA, but it will leave you with a bulkhead that is ready to weld the new footwells into.

[SafeAirOne]

You could just use a spot weld cutter. There are different types, but 2 of the most common ones are:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/2168XPZVRNL._SL500_AA200_.jpg

and

http://image.europeancarweb.com/f/8853174/0206ec_tool01_z.jpg

[KingSlug]

Ike Goss did a write up on this here:

http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/reference/howto/bulkheadrepair/index.htm

[Tim Smith]

Yup. Drill out the spot welds. :thumb-up:

When you get around to reassembly, you will want those little holes to reattach the new foot well. The end product will look pretty clean if you take your time and avoiding bending bits out of shape as you are trying to refit it.

[thixon]

Hi Crash,

Congrats on tackling the bulkhead. Don't bother with the spotweld cutter. Drill straight through each spotweld. Someone above mentioned a 1/4" bit, which will work just fine, but you can go a little smaller if you wish.

If you look at the bulkhead, its pretty modular in design. You're mostly dealing with spot welds. However, on the engine side, you'll have to grind the welds away that hold the triangular stiffeners in place. You shouldn't have to cut away any metal toward the top and side portions. Send some photos ASAP so we can diagnose.

The footboxes will come out pretty easy once you get all the welds drilled/ground out. Wha I'm about to recommend may not be the favorite of everyone else on this board, but its whats worked for me on body panel fab/repair on rovers and other cars. Fit the new footboxes up using self tapping sheet metal screws. You'll probably have to do a little trimming on the new boxes to get everything to fit up right, so don't let that scare you. My recommendation would be to screw it together with enough screws to hold it together off the frame. Then, install it on the frame of the truck (self made jig!), and then start screwing it up tight with more screws till its sucked together and solid. At this point, you end up with a non permanent solid assembly that is easily taken apart if you did make a big boo-boo.

Then pull it off the truck (if you want), and start removing screws one at a time, and plug welding with rossette welds. If you can already weld, then you know what I'm talking about. If not, then let us know, and plenty of people on the board can go over the technique to acheive a good strong rosette.

I was brief, did'nt want to write a book. If you have questions post 'em. Also, post some pics of where you are the project, and we can help more.

Good luck!

[49coe]

You can use a smaller bit, but I like the 1/4" because it gives you enough space to start the weld on the other piece and then bring the puddle into the piece with the hole in it. With a smaller hole, I think that alot of the time you are just filling the hole but not getting good penetration into the piece you are trying to weld it to.

[thixon]

49COE,

I was'nt trying to ding you, just making a statement (maybe he did'nt have a 1/4 bit:D ).

Concerning penetration on a rosette, I generally hold the torch steady in the center once I finish my circle and fill the hole. I watch the puddle as I'm holding steady, and wait to see it begin to get heavy and sink just a little. By this point I've usually gotten excellent penetration.

[Bertha]

I like the 1/4" because it gives you enough space to start the weld on the other piece and then bring the puddle into the piece with the hole in it. With a smaller hole, I think that alot of the time you are just filling the hole but not getting good penetration into the piece you are trying to weld it to.

+1 excellent advice -especially to a beginner dealing with it for the first time. Any smaller on the hole is asking for trouble.

[Crash]

Wow

I will post a few pic's tomorrow!

Jim

[Crash]

1736

1736

1737

1738


Started to drill out the spot welds. Made good progress and will be back at it in the morning. Discoverd a hairline crack along the top of the "flange" the footwell attaches to along the top where it transitions from the angle to vertical. Does not show in the photos. Its been a long time since I welded anything but I suspect this will be a good way to reaquire my technique!

Hard to see the spotwelds in order to drill them out! Maybe it just my lighting.

Jim

[49coe]

I find them by feel alot of the time, also, if you can run a sander over the area or even a sanding block they will show up because they are slightly dimpled. I usually go around and use a marker to put a dot on all of them before I start to drill. Have fun.

[thixon]

+1 excellent advice -especially to a beginner dealing with it for the first time. Any smaller on the hole is asking for trouble.
Bertha,
Just curious. Why would it be asking for trouble?

[JackIIA]

Self-tapping screws. what a great idea. i can't believe that never entered my mind when I did mine. I still like the welding approach. But the screws are an excellent first step to check fit I would think. And as poster noted, may save you the pain of building a jig, as I did.

[daveb]

I also use self tappers to hold panels together where clamping is impractical or impossible. Tack the parts together, then remove the screws and fill the hole with weld.


Self-tapping screws. what a great idea. i can't believe that never entered my mind when I did mine. I still like the welding approach. But the screws are an excellent first step to check fit I would think. And as poster noted, may save you the pain of building a jig, as I did.

[JackIIA]

Did you use a sheet of copper or something as backing for the hole created by the screws? I'd think you'd just blow through them. Still, way to go. Tried to attach a shot of the jig I built. But the forum has such a ridiculously small file size I couldn't do it. In any event, I was not impressed with the jig, so moot. Ike Goss has a much better and simpler one on his site.

[Leslie]

I screwed mine together w/ self-tappers, welded it up, pulled the screws and then tagged the screw-holes w/ the welder to close them up, too.

One of the problems I would have had if I'd not had a good coach on this would have been either leaving too much of the existing bulkhead (I was originally going to cut out just some smaller areas, then use a smaller patch-size cut from the replacement footwells: it's much better to cut out more of the old footwell, and have a cleaner install), or, take too much (you need enough of the surrounding areas cleaned up, but still there, to which to weld the replacement footwell...).

I definitely would study hard on Ike's pages.....

[thixon]

JackIIA,

The technique is called a rosette weld. Some guys call it a plug weld. Google rosette, and you should find some info. No backer needed, but you'rhe right, if you hold the torch on too long the puddle will drop through. Conversely, if you don't hold it long enough you don't get propper penetration.

The jig on Ikes site is essentially an angle iron rectangle that fits around the feet of the bulkhead to gauge the spacing. You can either measure using the frame of your truck as a guide, or build the bulkhead on the truck as I describe. I've done it both ways, and don't like either any better than the other.

Ikes site is extremely helpful, and I'd recommend it to anyone who's never done a bulkhead rebuild before. That being said, it ain't rocket science. My IIa needed a full rework from the dash down. This included both door posts, footwells, center dog house, fabbing of new flanges above footwells, fabbing of new center stiffener, etc. All this took me one solid weekend (not including removal and teardown which was done the previous weekend). Personally, if its a low end repair, I'd rather scrap the whole damn bottom of the bulhead, and replace with new. I can finish the project fasther than trying to patch here and there.

While I do have experience restoring cars, I am not a pro by any means. There's plenty of support on this board. In my opinion, a rover bulkhead is a great first project for someone who wants to learn to do this type of work.

Let the arrows fly gentlemen!:D

[JackIIA]

Travis,

I second you on Ike's site. Unfortunately I found it after doing my own bulkhead and after I went by some grainy photos from ECR (hence my jig which is a p*** poor replica in my mind). I think you are not giving the skill required enough credit. If folks need to know to drill out welds for instance (rather than just cutting with a high speed wheel) there is the first problem. Poor measuring the second (really the first I guess), repro parts that don't fit exactly, and the list goes on. Growing up, I worked in the family business (repair), and much of what I learned there was attributed to 'common sense' from my grandfather and uncles. Which isn't to denigrate it. But alot of it really isn't. It's time and skill, and instruction. I agree this site, and others like it are great sources. Yeah, I'm familiar with plug welds. I guess what I meant was if the screw is driven through both surfaces, you have a hole, rather than a surface for a plug weld. Small point. Thinking later, I of course realized you could leave the damn thing in and just spot weld and then drill out. I'm writing too much! Thanks for the ideas. Good stuff.

[daveb]

easy to close up small through-holes with the mig machine. I only use a screw where really neccesary, not every place there is a spot weld!


Travis,

I guess what I meant was if the screw is driven through both surfaces, you have a hole, rather than a surface for a plug weld. Small point. Thinking later, I of course realized you could leave the damn thing in and just spot weld and then drill out. I'm writing too much! Thanks for the ideas. Good stuff.

[kwd509]

After taking a break for winter weather I am now beginning to consider drilling out the aforementioned spot welds in the footwells. Once I find one, as a starting point, is there a convention as to placement of these welds......thus allowing me to work my way around in finding them?

Would prefer to remove the panels this way, then having them simply cut out w plasma cutter.

[SafeAirOne]

Being maufactured well before robotics, these were hand welded, so the spot welds aren't in any predictable location other than along the footwell tabs.

Just look for the slight round surface distortions indicating the spot weld locations.