Replacing Mech Fuel Pump with Electric

[navydevildoc]

OK guys, need some guidance from the Sages of the Series...

I decided to dump my mechanical fuel filter after I was having problems when full bore on the big streets here in San Diego. I would be doing 60 with no problem, then have a spurt of no power, then kick back in again about 1 to 2 seconds later. It would only happen when under sustained wide open throttle, never at idle, and not when I just blipped the pedal. Also, my inline fuel filter I put in when I got my weber carb never fills up all the way.

Everything seems to point to a mechanical pump that is just not keeping up with the times. So I went to O'Reilly's (nee Kragen) and picked up the Bestest 8016S, which has been mentioned on here in the past as the pump to get.

I have it all in, but I am trying to decide what to do with the mechanical pump. As far as I can tell, I have 3 major options:

1) Leave it there and let it suck air for the rest of it's existence. This is the laziest, but also *may* make it available in the unlikely case that the electrical pump fails.

2) Pull it out, and fabricate a plate to cover up the opening with a custom gasket. Most work involved option.

3) Leave it in, but cap off the inlet and outlet so that no dirt and grime get in. I am worried that this would basically make it a big vacuum pump against the cap on the inlet side, and just wear it out even faster.

Anyone want to offer their opinion?

[TJR]

OK guys, need some guidance from the Sages of the Series...
3) Leave it in, but cap off the inlet and outlet so that no dirt and grime get in. I am worried that this would basically make it a big vacuum pump against the cap on the inlet side, and just wear it out even faster.

Anyone want to offer their opinion?


3A. Leave it in and connect the inlet to the outlet with a short section of hose so it's "closed loop", and avail if you feel you ever need it.

Option 2 really isn't that hard either

Option 4. replace the Mechanial pump w/ a fresh one?

TJR

[navydevildoc]

3A. Leave it in and connect the inlet to the outlet with a short section of hose so it's "closed loop", and avail if you feel you ever need it.


Oooohhhh. I hadn't thought of that! This is my new game plan.



Option 4. replace the Mechanial pump w/ a fresh one?


To be honest, after my ignition switch shorted out to the chassis and released the magic smoke a few nights ago (another 200 bucks down the drain to replace that), plus a bunch of other odds and ends I need to get, a 30 dollar electric fuel pump was a nice change of pace.

[LaneRover]

FYI my inline fuel filter never fills up either with my mechanical pump.

Brent

[hughwilton]

More FYI: When I needed a fuel pump I tried two new mechanical ones & neither would pump enough gas for my motors needs so I solved the problem with an electric pump. I then plugged mine off in place and kept it for a back up.

[Andrew IIA]

Also, my inline fuel filter I put in when I got my weber carb never fills up all the way.I'm not convinced that the fuel pump is the source of the problem, but I like the idea of leaving it in as a closed-loop in-place spare.

It is normal for the inline fuel filter to be only partially filled (1/2 or less) under normal operation.

Best regards, Andrew
'63 SIIA 88" w/ 2bbl weber

[navydevildoc]

OK, so I am open to ideas on what else it may be... truck runs great in all other respects (engine wise anyway), just when it's WFO it starts to have issues, and for a second or to at a time, but if I slow down it goes away.

Timing seems spot on, she has brand new plugs, new plug wires, new vacuum advance hose, and a pertronix ignition. Pretty much the only thing I could think of was maybe a coil that was starting to crap the bed.

I should add that I have not yet test driven the truck since replacing the pump... this all started as a project to install new seats, and like most series projects turned in to something much more involved....

[Tim Smith]

I too have a similar problem but only on the right side tank. I'm pretty sure the transfer switch is just a little dirty and maybe the right side line needs a good blowing out too but an electric pump will be going in place as part of my fix.

Would be nice to have immediate starts when the locals are ogling that weird truck.

[Andrew IIA]

I had similar a 'fuel starving' issue. It was intermittent, and tended to be worse at high temps (highway running in the summer). It happened during high speed running and also on heavy acceleration. Turned out to be sticky accelerator pump lever/return on the 2 bbl weber. Lots of cleaning and lubing of the lever & return spring related to the accelerator pump on the carb fixed it.

Hope that helps (not sure what weber you have).

Best regards, Andrew
'63 SIIA 88" SW

[msggunny]

What Webber are you running? The 34ich or the 32/36?

[Tim Smith]

I'm on the 34ICH and I know it's not the accelerator pump. At least in my case it isn't.

[Andrew IIA]

My Weber is 32/34 DMTL.

[navydevildoc]

It's the 34ICH with at most 2 hours of run time on it.

[msggunny]

It's the 34ICH with at most 2 hours of run time on it.

Well that does me no good, my 32/36 has a flat spot because of its jetting and i thought it may be the same thing. Im running an electrical fuel pump too, plenty of fuel getting to her.

I have heard that the 34's are lean out of the box, did you re-jet? Maybe that is the problem?

[jac04]

I have heard that the 34's are lean out of the box, did you re-jet?
The current spec Weber 34ICH (part number 15290.027) is factory jetted as follows:
Main Jet = 165
Em. Tube = F6
Air Corr. Jet = 190

It's my understanding that these are the recommended 'starting pont' jets for the 2.25L if at sea level.

[navydevildoc]

Well, I am happy to report that after my "Replacing seats turned into replace seats, brake lines, fuel lines, rear chassis wire harness, fuel pump, ignition switch, and all seat box and floor board mounting hardware" project was finished, I took the truck out to our local Rover Club meeting and she ran great!

So I am going to make the un-scientific assumption that the fuel pump was my problem. Absolutely NO hesitation or power loss even at WFO on Miramar road, which is basically a freeway.

But I discovered a new problem, my right rear rim is botched up. It doesn't end.

[daveb]

so, what electric pump did you use? have you measured the psi? did you measure the psi on your mechanical pump? most electric pumps push too many PSI for the little weber carbs. things get real interesting when they overcome the float needle and spill gas all over the hot manifold.

the mechanical pumps have no problem keeping up with everyone else's 2.25. I doubt your 2.25 is some magical beast that the mechanical pumps can't keep up with.

best bet is to take the mechanical pump out completely if you are not using it.




Well, I am happy to report that after my "Replacing seats turned into replace seats, brake lines, fuel lines, rear chassis wire harness, fuel pump, ignition switch, and all seat box and floor board mounting hardware" project was finished, I took the truck out to our local Rover Club meeting and she ran great!

So I am going to make the un-scientific assumption that the fuel pump was my problem. Absolutely NO hesitation or power loss even at WFO on Miramar road, which is basically a freeway.

But I discovered a new problem, my right rear rim is botched up. It doesn't end.

[NickDawson]

Well, I am happy to report that after my "Replacing seats turned into replace seats, brake lines, fuel lines, rear chassis wire harness, fuel pump, ignition switch, and all seat box and floor board mounting hardware" project was finished, I took the truck out to our local Rover Club meeting and she ran great!

Thats great news! congrats on getting it up and running

[navydevildoc]

so, what electric pump did you use? have you measured the psi? did you measure the psi on your mechanical pump? most electric pumps push too many PSI for the little weber carbs. things get real interesting when they overcome the float needle and spill gas all over the hot manifold.

the mechanical pumps have no problem keeping up with everyone else's 2.25. I doubt your 2.25 is some magical beast that the mechanical pumps can't keep up with.

best bet is to take the mechanical pump out completely if you are not using it.

It's a Bestest 8016 (number is from memory) pump. Rated at 5 PSI, 30 gph if memory serves correctly.

Never said my 2.25 is some magical beast, but the mechanical pump doesn't seem to have been holding it's own. Empirical evidence is hard to argue. I have considered putting the mech pump back into the loop to see if the problem comes back... but to be honest it's nice just having a working Series for a while, really for the first time since I have owned it.

[Andrew IIA]

but to be honest it's nice just having a working Series for a while, really for the first time since I have owned it.

I hear that :thumb-up:

[Cosmic88]

How does the level in your filter sit now that you are running around town (finally) with the electric pump? What pressure do you have it set at?

AND....... a cautionary word of advice from personal experience... and I only say this since, like a lot of us, you seem to have an ongoing project on your hands. Try not to leave the ignition / fuel pump on when the engine is not turning. Since, IF for whatever reason the neelde valve actuated by the float should become worn or you develop a leak which allows fuel bypass of the needle, now that you have an electric pump, you could fill up your cylinders / oil sump with fresh clean fuel. The only upside to that is a nice clean engine. :cool:

The downside is obvious. I recently experienced this with a 32/36 on a V8 in a Def 110. Brand new fuel pump set at only 3lbs. but combined with an out of adjustment float valve flooded out the engine and the oil level went from 6 ltrs. to 8 pretty fast.

[navydevildoc]

How does the level in your filter sit now that you are running around town (finally) with the electric pump? What pressure do you have it set at?


The pump doesn't let you set pressure... if I remember it's a 4 or 5 PSI pump.

I have 2 filters, one right after the tank before the pump, and one right after the pump before the carb. The one before the tank is pretty much full, there is a small amount of air at the top.

The second filter I have not looked at today, but was about 3/4 of the way full if memory serves. Way more than the "is there even fuel in it" situation I was in before.



AND....... a cautionary word of advice from personal experience... and I only say this since, like a lot of us, you seem to have an ongoing project on your hands. Try not to leave the ignition / fuel pump on when the engine is not turning. Since, IF for whatever reason the neelde valve actuated by the float should become worn or you develop a leak which allows fuel bypass of the needle, now that you have an electric pump, you could fill up your cylinders / oil sump with fresh clean fuel. The only upside to that is a nice clean engine. :cool:

The downside is obvious. I recently experienced this with a 32/36 on a V8 in a Def 110. Brand new fuel pump set at only 3lbs. but combined with an out of adjustment float valve flooded out the engine and the oil level went from 6 ltrs. to 8 pretty fast.

Yeah, trust me I am jittery still when driving along the road. I half expect a major carbecue at any moment while driving her.

[JimCT]

Not a bad idea to run the power through an oil pressure switch so it shuts off on its own. Safer that way.

[Nium]

Heya NavyDevilDoc,

I see that you had posted your running the Pertronix Ignitor electronic points. I think your issue may still be with the low tension lead or the wire on the Ignitor that would be the low tension lead.

Your symptoms are exactly the same as what I've experienced when the low tension lead on my rig develops a break. I've yet to install the Pertronix, must say that I've eye balled it more then once but have never seemed to be able to follow thru on ordering it, I'm still running points. Since the Pertronix attaches to the timing advance plate, the same as the points, as the timing advances the wire is squished or bent. The thing with wire, as you may know, once a weak spot is bent it will bend at that same spot over and over till it breaks. At wide open the timing would be advanced to its max; which would have the wire bent to the max; which if there is a break in the wire could cause an open condition; which would kill the ignition; which would resolve itself when the timing advance plate moved back to a non-advanced position (when the engine died for a moment); which would bring the two broken ends of wire back together again (thus completing the circuit for the ignition) and the rig would go again. An easy test, with the engine running, would be to push the wire into the dizzy (you may have to put the rubber grommet that the wire passes thru to the inside of the dizzy to do it) and see if it kills the engine or carefully visually inspect the wire at the point where it enters the dizzy and look for a dark spot on the insulation which should be an indication of arcing between the two broken ends. It probably broke inside the insulation.

Like I stated I'm running points but I've experienced the exact same condition you described when the low tension lead crapped out.

I once had a FIAT Spyder that I used one of them glass in-line fuel filters (right before the carb). After getting stuck too many times on the side of the road because of it (each time I'd have to take it apart and clean it really well) I finally realized their crap and threw it away and have never since put one on another vehicle.

I'd recommend getting one of them tin can looking in-line filters. I got one on my Landie, right before the carb, along with a bigger fuel filter right after the tank. The bigger filter, I believe, was speced for a Datsun 6 cylinder Z car. Never had an issue with fuel delivery.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth.

Cheers,
"Ronnie"
1968 Series IIA, 2.25L Petrol