Anyone useing a Hi-Ratio Transfer Box? [Archive]

Regan

11-10-2009, 11:24 AM

I am still looking for getting more speed and/or power, less noise and less heat out of newly acquired Series IIA. Per a couple earlier threads, someone suggested I look at a High Ratio Transfer Box vs. an overdrive, which I do not have now. I am told this re-assembled transfer bax will get the 88 up to 70 MPH, 55 in town or 3rd gear. Yes, it is costly, but then it may be worth it. Have any of you have this "new" transfer box and if so, happy with it, etc. etc. Can it do the 70 MPH with a 2.25L petro running near perfect?

I will consider one, if it can do the above - faster, quieter, plus.
Look forward to your responses and comments on this accessory. Thanks!

Jeff riding the Possie :D

TeriAnn

11-10-2009, 11:49 AM

I am told this re-assembled transfer bax will get the 88 up to 70 MPH, 55 in town or 3rd gear. Yes, it is costly, but then it may be worth it. Have any of you have this "new" transfer box and if so, happy with it, etc. etc. Can it do the 70 MPH with a 2.25L petro running near perfect?

70 MPH with a 2.25 engine? No problem if you are going downhill or have a very long level stretch with no headwind or uphill sections.

I have an Ashcroft high ratio converted transfercase behind a 302 V8. Works great, holds up great, quiet, and with 33.3" dia tyres I'm at 2650 RPM @ 65 MPH. Will a 2.25L engine, optimistically rated at 70 hp (fresh with 8:1 compression), push that tall of a gear? marginally. You might find yourself cruising in 3rd gear a lot if there are any hills where you live.

The high ratio conversion is great behind an uprated engine and I highly recommend it to keep the revs down after engine swaps.

If you run the numbers you will find that in high range the gear ratios of a high range transfer case are close ballpark to a stock series drive train with 3.54:1 R&P gears. You can use a pair for diffs from a Disco I or RR Classic being scrapped out as a try before you buy if you like.

A real advantage to an overdrive is that it allows you to split third & fourth in the hills. That's mostly what I used mine for back when I had one. Four over is not as tall as a high ratio transfercase so is more useful with the 2.25L engine.

A high ratio kit is a great addition to a V8 or six cylinder conversion but I think it kinds sucks behind a stock 2.25L engine.

If your low range ratios are not critical and you don't live in mountain country, you could try a 4.1:1 R&P conversion.

SafeAirOne

11-10-2009, 12:10 PM

Fast?? Quiet?? Powerfull??

Man, I've got some bad news for you Jeff...You just bought the wrong car.

LC_rover

11-10-2009, 12:13 PM

I have the hi ratio in my Series III. It gives you a little top end, but I think those speeds would really be pushing the RPMs up on the 2.25 with standard gearing. I live in flat country, and I don't drive my LR on the interstate usually. 50 - 55mph is my max for comfortable cruising usually. Even if the gearing ratios were there, I think my LR would be crazy noisy at those speeds, and the mpg would go right in the toilet.

I think if you really want to get it comfortable at those speeds, you need to look at the diff gearing as was already mentioned. That will be a trade off for the super low off road capability though.

TeriAnn

11-10-2009, 02:44 PM

I have the hi ratio in my Series III. It gives you a little top end, but I think those speeds would really be pushing the RPMs up on the 2.25 with standard gearing.

I guess I don't understand what you are saying. I'm not sure what you mean by "a little top end" But I do like to look at actual numbers for a comparison, so out comes the calculator.

(speed numbers are calculated with 32" dia tyres, the stock dia for a 109)

Stock Series overall gear ratio for fourth gear calculated at the axle = 5.4:1
With 32" dia tyres the engine is turning 3686 RPM @ 65 MPH
With 32" dia tyres the engine is turning 3119 RPM @ 55 MPH
With 32" dia tyres the engine is turning 2835 RPM @ 50 MPH

Series with high ratio kit in fourth gear calculated at the axle = 4.09:1
with 32" dia tyres the engine is turning 2737 RPM @ 65 MPH

Series with 3.54:1 R&P in fourth gear is turning 2788 RPM @ 65 MPH

Series with Roverdrive in fourth gear overdrive is turning 2951 RPM @ 65 MPH

LC_rover

11-10-2009, 03:24 PM

I guess I don't understand what you are saying.

I was giving my annecdotal experience with the hi-ratio vs stock. I have none with the Roverdrive.
Also, it sounds like he wants a routine 70mph in a smooth, quiet and efficient manner in his Series IIa. That might not be possible (heh), but I'm thinking his best bet is a 3.54 diff mod in addition to his choice of OD/Hi-Ratio? :shrugs:

daveb

11-10-2009, 05:32 PM

the hi ratio box is really too high for the 2.25. better to fit an overdrive.

I am still looking for getting more speed and/or power, less noise and less heat out of newly acquired Series IIA. Per a couple earlier threads, someone suggested I look at a High Ratio Transfer Box vs. an overdrive, which I do not have now. I am told this re-assembled transfer bax will get the 88 up to 70 MPH, 55 in town or 3rd gear. Yes, it is costly, but then it may be worth it. Have any of you have this "new" transfer box and if so, happy with it, etc. etc. Can it do the 70 MPH with a 2.25L petro running near perfect?

I will consider one, if it can do the above - faster, quieter, plus.
Look forward to your responses and comments on this accessory. Thanks!

Jeff riding the Possie :D

Cutter

11-10-2009, 05:38 PM

It works nicely in my 2.6l, I can cruise comfortably at 60-65, much more and it is really pushing it.

TeriAnn

11-10-2009, 05:46 PM

Also, it sounds like he wants a routine 70mph in a smooth, quiet and efficient manner in his Series IIa. That might not be possible (heh), but I'm thinking his best bet is a 3.54 diff mod in addition to his choice of OD/Hi-Ratio?

Since I like data:

High ratio transfercase (0.87:1) + 3.54:1 R&P + 32" tyres = 2264 RPM @ 70 MPH. Much less than 70 MPH & the engine would be in a steep power decline. You would need to downshift into 3rd for 65 MPH.

Even though it would put 70 MPH right about where the 2.25L engine generates max torque you would need a couple solid propellant boosters to get up to that speed and an axillary engine to maintain that speed.

The 2.25 engine just can not push the combination. It can barely be pushed to turn the high ratio box or the 3.54 diffs.

Bottom line, get an overdrive, learn to love 55 MPH & the ability to split 3rd & 4th gears.

rbonnett

11-10-2009, 06:14 PM

TeriAnn,

Any data on how big those boosters should be? Say to get from 35 to 65 on the average freeway ramp?

thixon

11-11-2009, 07:35 AM

Regan,

Where do you live? I'm asking because one thing you can do to reduce the noise is run with a canvass top. I guess you won't actually reduce the noise, you just won't be riding inside a giant drum anymore without the hardtop. That may not be an option for you if you live up north, unless you're hairy like a yeti.

On my first rover, I went through a lot of work to reduce the noise. I covered everything with dynamat on the outside (bulkhead, seatbox, inside the doors and bed, everywhere). I then covered everysurface inside with aluminum bubble wrap stying linsulation, and covered that with a bunch of trim panels I made. I did the same on the inside of the hardtop, and then made a head liner. It was fun doing it, it looked great, and it worked to some degree. However, it was still loud and hot (in the summer anyway), just not as loud and hot as before I did all that. It was a whole lot of work, for minimal returns.

As for the speed issue, TA is on target. I had an overdrive in that truck, and liked it. I could get up to 70 or so, but I had a newly rebuilt (8:1 head) motor. 70 was only possible on flat interstate, pedal to the floor. The first hill I came to reduced my speed.

IMO, if you plan to leave the truck in its current configuration, you're chasing your tail trying to find a way to make it reach modern highway speeds. Either consider drivetrain mods/swaps, or accept it for what it is.

Either way, it'll be an adventure.

Regan

11-11-2009, 08:25 AM

Travis, thanks for the info. I am getting somewhere! I live in cajun heartland - Lafayette, LA. The highest thing we have over here are overpasses - No kidding! Flat and HOT! Except for now. I am running BFG LT235/85 R16 tires and believe they are getting me some additional speed, but cannot tell as speedo says 50 to 55 MPH with RPM averaging around 2900, give or take 100. So, my solution seems to be either an O/D or High Ration box, one or the other. I think either will provide around 60 to 65 MPH, but hopefully at around 2700 RPM, which the 2.25L runs nice. I also have a nice safari hard top with top vents, etc.

Also, I am considering the same you did on noise control. I contacted British Pacific, but the HD floor, seat, firewall covering kit is $699. A bit too much for me. I had heat as well on my initial trip, but am taking care of that filling holes and replacing needed seals inside.
Again, thanks for the info.
Regan

Regan,

Where do you live? I'm asking because one thing you can do to reduce the noise is run with a canvass top. I guess you won't actually reduce the noise, you just won't be riding inside a giant drum anymore without the hardtop. That may not be an option for you if you live up north, unless you're hairy like a yeti.

On my first rover, I went through a lot of work to reduce the noise. I covered everything with dynamat on the outside (bulkhead, seatbox, inside the doors and bed, everywhere). I then covered everysurface inside with aluminum bubble wrap stying linsulation, and covered that with a bunch of trim panels I made. I did the same on the inside of the hardtop, and then made a head liner. It was fun doing it, it looked great, and it worked to some degree. However, it was still loud and hot (in the summer anyway), just not as loud and hot as before I did all that. It was a whole lot of work, for minimal returns.

As for the speed issue, TA is on target. I had an overdrive in that truck, and liked it. I could get up to 70 or so, but I had a newly rebuilt (8:1 head) motor. 70 was only possible on flat interstate, pedal to the floor. The first hill I came to reduced my speed.

IMO, if you plan to leave the truck in its current configuration, you're chasing your tail trying to find a way to make it reach modern highway speeds. Either consider drivetrain mods/swaps, or accept it for what it is.

Either way, it'll be an adventure.

Tim Smith

11-11-2009, 08:40 AM

Regan,
I think you are looking for a golden bullet to get you up to speed with modern traffic. As has been stated, there really isn't one without upgrading a whole bunch of stuff.

I think you would be better served by going through all the different components and making sure things are in tune to the best of your ability. With fresh and good oil, the transfer case and gear box will quiet down. With the motor in top tune, you'll find it running a bit more powerful and possibly a little faster. The more you do, the better it will get and the more you will understand how much these trucks love good maintenance.

With the roverdrive I can maintain 60-65 indicated with no problems unless there happens to be a hill or a strong head wind. ;) That's on 33" tires and the GPS has proven that 65 indicated is more like 70 actual. I have cruised at speeds up to 75 indicated with this motor but I gotta tell you, that's kind of pushing it and it affects the mileage. This truck will push even faster but you got to remember that you're still on drum brakes and unless you've already been through all of the steering components, suspension and even the drive line joints, you're probably flirting with disaster.

Start saving your cash for an engine upgrade and while you are doing that, start getting familiar with everything else on the truck which probably wants your attention any way. :thumb-up:

Regan

11-11-2009, 08:48 AM

Tim, thanks. I'm toning down my request and understandably looking at a moderate solution for 2700 RPM and 60 to 65 MPH. P.S. Everything I buy now cost me double! How, new kitchen counter top, bathroom upgrades, paint. My wonderful wife encourages me to spend 'cause she matching me $ for $. Yep, it gunna be a nice 88!
Regan

Regan,
I think you are looking for a golden bullet to get you up to speed with modern traffic. As has been stated, there really isn't one without upgrading a whole bunch of stuff.

I think you would be better served by going through all the different components and making sure things are in tune to the best of your ability. With fresh and good oil, the transfer case and gear box will quiet down. With the motor in top tune, you'll find it running a bit more powerful and possibly a little faster. The more you do, the better it will get and the more you will understand how much these trucks love good maintenance.

With the roverdrive I can maintain 60-65 indicated with no problems unless there happens to be a hill or a strong head wind. ;) That's on 33" tires and the GPS has proven that 65 indicated is more like 70 actual. I have cruised at speeds up to 75 indicated with this motor but I gotta tell you, that's kind of pushing it and it affects the mileage. This truck will push even faster but you got to remember that you're still on drum brakes and unless you've already been through all of the steering components, suspension and even the drive line joints, you're probably flirting with disaster.

Start saving your cash for an engine upgrade and while you are doing that, start getting familiar with everything else on the truck which probably wants your attention any way. :thumb-up:

greasyhandsagain

11-11-2009, 09:05 AM

Noise Control????

The blue foam earplugs from Rite Aid give a 33 decibel noise reduction. For 5$ you get like a dozen of them....and they WORK WONDERS!

65-75 in a Series is dangerous. Just stay off those roads, or get an Amish red triangle and stick in on the back when you need to go on the interstate.

If you wanna go fast in a Land Rover.....get a Range Rover or a Disco.

greenmeanie

11-11-2009, 09:56 AM

65-75 in a Series is dangerous. Just stay off those roads, or get an Amish red triangle and stick in on the back when you need to go on the interstate.

Why do you think 65mph in a series is dangerous? A well set up and maintained truck should do this pretty easily although it will be loud. Its no modern vehicle but accepting the age of the design and driving accordingly it should be no problem.

TeriAnn

11-11-2009, 10:02 AM

65-75 in a Series is dangerous.

I think a qualifier should be inserted here.

A Series truck with very good condition steering, suspension, frame in spec, wheels in balance and professional front end alignment to within factory specs is very stable at 75. Cruised there and the truck felt very stable. Really no different than the feel of the truck at 55 MPH. But without all the above qualifiers 65-75 MPH can be a scary dangerous region. I would guess it would be almost like being in a sub just short of crush depth. You could feel the truck getting ready to disintegrate and become a collection of tumbling parts. At least that's what I thought before getting my front end aligned to within factory specs.

With a V8 & taller high range gearing I often find myself at 70+ just drifting with the flow of freeway traffic. My truck is stable enough that I don't notice the slow creep from keeping up with freeway traffic. But I'm a fanatic about steering, alignment and tyre balance. I'm also a fanatic about not out driving your brakes. So with greater speed comes greater spacing between vehicles. Way more so if you still have drum front brakes (My truck has discs).

In stock form a Series truck was designed to be a back country truck and does a very good job of being just that. Defenders were designed to be back country trucks to could venture into the big city on modern highways. If you want your Series truck to be able to comfortably visit its SUV relatives (Discos & RRs) in the big city its steering should be in top condition and the Series rig should become a little more Defender like.

But yes if your truck is out of factory spec, 65+ can be a very scary dangerous place to be.

TedW

11-11-2009, 10:51 AM

I think a qualifier should be inserted here.

A Series truck with very good condition steering, suspension, frame in spec, wheels in balance and professional front end alignment to within factory specs is very stable at 75.

I agree with TeriAnn. My truck is very stable (eerily so) at 65, which is as fast as I dare to go. What scares me the most at that speed is the prospect if attempting an evasive maneuver. I fear that I would flip the truck. So I keep my wits about me and hope I don't have to hit anything, because a swerve would probably be very dangerous (to me).

Regan

11-11-2009, 11:26 AM

I seriously believe I will NOT be going north of 65 MPH on the freeway. I'll have a kayak on top and fairly loaded as well with fishing gear. Most of my time will be going to/from fishing site, etc. and city.

With that said, I do look to make future trips, going over 3 years, from tip of NA to tip of SA. This will be done in legs, so to speak, leaving the 88 in countries, stored ( I work and have limited vacation time). This will take place beginning in 2010 or 2011. This is the reason for asking for greater or more comfortable speed, as some highway distances will be needed. The 88 is stock now, with a few mods. I am willing to add, within reason, what is needed for cross continent trips. Heck, gas, oil, grease gun and a tool box should get me 1/2 way there!

Has anyone accomplished this in an older L.R.?
Regan

I agree with TeriAnn. My truck is very stable (eerily so) at 65, which is as fast as I dare to go. What scares me the most at that speed is the prospect if attempting an evasive maneuver. I fear that I would flip the truck. So I keep my wits about me and hope I don't have to hit anything, because a swerve would probably be very dangerous (to me).

thixon

11-11-2009, 11:35 AM

Has anyone accomplished this in an older L.R.?
Regan

My first 88 was a daily driver for 7 years or so. I went everywhere in it, including all the way up the east coast.

thixon

11-11-2009, 11:37 AM

Has anyone accomplished this in an older L.R.?
Regan

My first 88 was a daily driver for 7 years or so. I went everywhere in it, including all the way up the east coast. on short, regional trips (under 200 miles) I barely took any tools. Usually just a small basic kit, set of points, etc. If you keep 'em maintained, they do great.

I don't recall that truck ever stranding me. Wish I'd never sold it. Twice I drove home with severe damage. Once on a broken frame, and again with a badly blown head gasket.

ArlowCT

11-12-2009, 10:26 PM

We did 15,000 miles in South America over two months in a 1961 109" and the only problem we had was a faulty fuel pump at high altitude! The truck was gone though with a fine tooth comb during the year or so before the trip so everything was in great shape to begin with. Speeds ranged from 20mph in 2ed overdrive (through the Andes at 14,000ft) to full days cruising at 75mph in the flatland's of Argentina.

I agree with TeriAnn, if a truck is set up right and in good condition then you should have no problem with highway speeds. My 88" just loves to cruise at that speed, it's like it settles into the groove and rather than fighting it's self everything harmonizes and she just purrs along.

One quick easy thing to check is making sure you have full throttle at the carb with the peddle to the floor. Have someone press the gas peddle to the floor a few times while you watch the arm on the carb go up and down. Have them hold it to the floor and try to push the arm on the carb further down. If it goes down you are not getting full throttle. To get more peddle you can loosen the bolt on the peddle it's self and rotate it up on the shaft. You can also play with the (+or-) 3 rods, 4 arms, a few springs, and some bits that never seem to work right that Land Rover felt was necessary just to open the carb :rolleyes:

daveb

11-13-2009, 07:58 AM

Regularly had the 109 up above 80 with the 3 liter and hi ratio. Drove like a dream. Guess it is not for everybody. Long wheelbase helps.

People who asked how fast it would go I would tell them "H". Look at an early IIa speedo if you don't get it.

:)

I seriously believe I will NOT be going north of 65 MPH on the freeway.

brucejohn

11-13-2009, 09:41 AM

stomper

11-13-2009, 12:26 PM

TeriAnn

11-13-2009, 03:10 PM

Just to throw another option out there, If you don't like overdrives, and want a higher top end, without losing the low end gearing, why not consider this option.
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/5speed.html

Looks like East Coast Rovers is selling the Ashcroft Series 5 speed adapter kit.

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_66.html

A very costly option if you don't have a nice condition R380 sitting around.

daveb

11-13-2009, 03:43 PM

pretty sure they take a ltt77 too, which would be the cheaper way about it. the short bellhousing r380s disappeared altogether and now ashcroft is having parts made and building them on their own. I think they are around L900 just for the gearbox and that doesn't include a shift lever or any of the other bits you might need.

Looks like East Coast Rovers is selling the Ashcroft Series 5 speed adapter kit.

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/part_66.html

A very costly option if you don't have a nice condition R380 sitting around.

BellaCoola

11-13-2009, 06:20 PM

This summer I drove 6500kms (4038miles) in 18 days up to the Canadian North in a stock 2.25 5mb petrol 1985 109.

Another of the trucks was also a 109 with a Roverdrive. If I was to do this again I would more than likely throw one of Rays Roverdrives on the truck.

The Highway speeds are decent 85-95KMH/55-65mph (it's happy zone), but the hills are the killer.

I have taken the truck up to 127kmh/78mph (GPS confirmed) but was not at all comfortable driving a 25 year old truck that fast...plus the engine was howling :eek:...and the road was flat.

I agree with Terri-Ann that a overdrive is a great addition to a series rig.

My two cents.

www.freewebs.com/83s3109 (http://www.freewebs.com/83s3109)

brucejohn

11-15-2009, 10:34 AM

Is this the bargain it appears to be straight from Roverdrive?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LAND-ROVER-SERIES-ROVERDRIVE-NEW-BARGAIN-PRICED_W0QQitemZ250528039419QQihZ015QQcategoryZ100 76QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This unit is straight from the folks at Rovergear. Here is Ray's reply to a few questions I had:

The lever throw is the main difference but you won't notice it if you have not experienced the newer unit. Inside about 90% of the components are identical. My picture shows the newer black knob yours will be the classic green one. The other comment you may have seen on web discussions is rattles in the older levers but yours will be updated so no worries there. Ray
-tallgypsy

I did go ahead and plunk down the money, it ships out Monday. We'll see how a 109 2.25 petrol handles a roverdrive.

- tallgypsy

gudjeon

11-15-2009, 11:28 AM

brucejohn

11-15-2009, 12:16 PM

On the subject of the Roverdrive, I have always wondered what was done with the cross shaft for the park brake for LHD vehicle? I was always led to believe that the unit would be in the way of this?:confused:

As I have an almost bare chassis now I went to look. The way it appears to fit: the angled brackets for the cross shaft are directly in line with a PTO or overdrive, though the shaft mounts raise the cross shaft just above a PTO or overdrive. It makes sense Rover had to have a plan for LHD units with a rear PTO.