Series 2A Brake Question/Help

[Regan]

In my effort to fix my growing list of "To Do" items, I have gotten into my brakes and adjusted them, or thought I did. After adjusting each brake hub, I drove the 2A and when I press on the brakes, nothing! I have to pump it twice or 3 times to get pressure and make it stop. This was happening prior, but not as bad. My guess is my adjustments are not correct. The one brake shoe I checked was thin and tad over 1/8" thick.

Question: Can anyone tell me if this seems like air in the lines, need new shoes or my adjustments are way off or combination of all? I cannot drive it as is because I really have NO brakes the 1st time I depress the brakes?

Look forward to your expertise so I can get my hands dirty & greasy again - seems that happens each weekend or holiday these days, but it is slowly getting to the point I am looking for.
Thanks, Jeff :confused:

[SafeAirOne]

What method did you use to adjust brakes?

[thixon]

Hi Regan,

Did you bleed the system, or did you just adjust by spinning the adjuster cams on the brake backing plate at each wheel?

Have you noticed any fluid leaking from the master or wheel cylinders? You mentioned you had to pump the brakes to get the truck to stop before you made the adjustments, is that right? Sounds like you have air in the system, but we need to know if you have any leaks anywhere.

Good luck,

[Jeff Aronson]

From one Jeff to another....

First, I am assuming you have an 88" II-A without a brake booster. 109"'s have two cylinders per wheel and always seem to take longer to adjust. I am also assuming that you are not losing any brake fluid from the reservoir.

One way to test this is for you to start your car and pump the brakes until you have a frim pedal. Then push hard on the pedal. Does the brake slowly go to the floor? If it does, then you have a leak of some sort - external losing fluid or internal in the master cylinder itself.

If not, you are describing the frustrations of Land Rover drum brake adjustments, shared by many enthusiasts on this Forum. I've experienced the same problems as you.

Brake adjustment on the Rover depends upon having shoes that have a good amount of lining on them, on drums that are the right diameter, and on adjuster cams that are the original sizes. If your shoes are worn to near the metal, you won't get a good adjustment on them. If the drums have worn out too much, you won't get a good adjustment. Lastly, remember that the front brakes on a II-A 88" take on most of the braking load, so they're the most critical.

To test your system further, take a pair of brake clamp locking pliers [a cheap and useful tool] and clamp off the rubber hose that sends brake fluid to your rear brakes. Then try your brakes again. Does the pedal action improve substantially? If so, then you know the problem is in the rear brakes. If not, focus on the front adjustment first.

Remove the front drums, one by one. Are the brake drums dry? Is there any leakage at the wheel cylinders? How are the brake shoes? If you have any grease or fluid on the drum, your brakes won't work properly. If the shoes are worn down, the adjusters will not make up the difference. Turn the adjuster cam - can you see the shoe move a short distance as it turns? If not, does the cam look as large as implied by the diagram in the Haynes or shop manual? The cams can wear out over the decades.

If all is well, then replace the drum and wheel, and then adjust it by turning the adjuster while spinning the wheel slowly. When you can stop the wheel with the adjuster, turn it a 1/2 turn to opposite way to back it off a bit, and then do the same procedure to the other front wheel.

Check your rear wheels for the same issues and for any grease inside the drum or on the shoes. The rear wheels can be affected by hypoid seeping past the rear hub seals and into the brake linings. If you have hypoid on them, it's very difficult to remove it from the linings and you should replace the hub seals and the hub race, as well as the shoes, before trying to use to brakes again. I've had to do all this on my II-A before, but it's not a constant problem by any means.

If the rears are clean, then go through the same process as you did in the fronts. As a final check, try your brake clamp again to see if there's any change in the pedal action with the rear brakes clamped off from your system.

My experience with brakes suggests that your problem is more likely in worn shoes [probably front] than adjustment alone. The fact that you have good braking action on the 2nd or 3rd pump implies that the hydraulics are working, but the small movement created by the pedal action does not push the leading shoe far enough for effective braking. You need more, so you have to push a few times. Each time you push the shoe can travel a bit further, and finally you have brake action.

Good luck with this, and keep us posted. We've all been there.

Jeff

[bmohan55]

I found this artical by our hosts to be very helpful as it looks like a brake job is in your future.

http://www.roversnorth.com/store/t-technical-info-tips-series-brake-shoe-installation.aspx

[Regan]

Thnaks to all for responding on the brakes. Just a note: After I depress the brakes the 1st time, the second time I press the brakes will almost make the LR skidd! I get really good brakes the second brake depression. It is my guess that I have a brake job to do as the one shoe I looked at (on the rear) was pretty worn out, so I would say the front ones are worse. I will try to bleed the brakes 1st and see if any change, if not, new shoes.

Thanks, Jeff

[Jeff Aronson]

From your descriptions, you don't sound like you have a hydraulic problem, and thus bleeding might not accomplish much.

Try crimping the rubber hose to the rear brakes and then seeing whether the pedal action improves. Sometimes owners change only the front shoes and let the rear ones go until they are worn out.

Good luck,

Jeff

[Regan]

All is well now, as I have brakes. Tightened brakes all around, check to see if master cylinder is working, was! Front left brake, new show, still needed adjusting, right rear, old shoe but still good, need adjustment all out. Works great, now of to next fix!
Thanks, Regan

[Les Parker]

Glad to learn that the fix was a fairly easy one.
All down to the learning curve of Land Rover ownership.
More power to the Elbow !!

:thumb-up:

[Jeff Aronson]

Nice job, Regan. We've all "been there, done that," and our Land Rovers can still baffle us at times. :) Now drive it and enjoy it!

Jeff