Newbie question - Leak

[Nanoose]

I have a 55 Series 1, 86" which has been running fine since I dealt with the carb and distributor issues. I've been using it as a daily driver for a couple of months and decided that some general maintenance was in order. When I got the truck I did all the normal checks (well, most of them) and everything seemed in order. I decide this weekend to change the gear case and transfer case oil.

I drained the gear case, oil looked fine and I re-filled it. I removed the plug at the bottom of the bell housing too and no oil was in it.

I then removed the drain plug from the transfer case. A bit less than a liter drained out, but what did come out looked fine. Clear, not dirty. I then re-filled the transfer case and when for a quick spin. When I got back I checked and there was oil leaking from the plug in the bell housing. I removed it, drained what was there and put it back in. (For what it's worth, the plug was in when I got the truck and, other than to check for oil, I leave it in).

Went to work this morning and came out at lunch to find a largish puddle of oil under the truck. It looks like it's draining from either the plug in the bell housing or from somewhere on the transfer case. Is there something obvious I'm missing? Any thoughts on how best to diagnose?

The truck seems to be running great, no odd noises, no slipping of gears - just the puddle of oil...

Thanks in advance!

Dave

[Jeff Aronson]

Dave,

For clarity, are you saying that you did not notice a leak until you filled the transfer case with new hypoid?

Can you determine whether the leaking oil is hypoid or motor oil? A leak at the rear main seal may seem like a leak around the bell housing or transfer case because of the location of the puddle. There is a gasket at the bottom of the transfer case, and you might find that you can gently tighten the numerous bolt heads there.

Obviously, gear oil is much thicker and has a more pungent smell than hypoid or gear oil. Also, motor oil is more likely to look blacker than hypoid.

BTW, you don't usually install the bell housing plug unless you're going wading with the Rover. You don't want any water or oil sitting near the clutch plates inside the bell housing. There's a tab on the bell housing with a small hole into which you screw in the plug, holding it there until you need it to protect the bell housing.

Let us know!

Jeff

[rwollschlager]

Any thoughts on how best to diagnose?



Dave

this may be difficult but see if you can pressure wash the t-case and tranny, removing all of the dirt and oil, then watch the newly cleaned surfaces for new oil residue.

-Rob

[Nanoose]

Hi Jeff,

Correct. I did not notice the leak until after filling the transfer with gear oil. I didn't notice when I replaced the gear case oil. I believe it is the gear oil that is leaking (the smell and viscosity seem correct) rather than engine oil.

One other thing comes to mind now (didn't seem to be important at the time). The general condition of the truck is quite good and clean. Yes, of course there are leaks but they're generally under control. The exception was when I went to change the Transfer case oil. It looked like quite a bit of buildup on the case and was quite noticeable (in comparison to surrounding areas) when I opened the compartment under the seat. I may just poke around a bit more when I get home - maybe something isn't secured or a seal has let go? I'll post some pictures...

Rob - Pressure washing would be a real challenge!!!


Thanks for the help!

Dave

[LaneRover]

Any chance that when you drained the oil that you didn't replace the copper crush washer on the drain plug?

I concur on the bellhousing plug, it should only be there for deep water as you want any oil that may get in the bellhousing to be able to go away and not contaminate the clutch.

[rovers2a]

a shot in the dark. .... i beleive there is a seal betweent the transferbox and gear box. if this seal is worn this allows the oil from the transfer case to fill the transmission. then the transmission will start to leak at the main shaft seal into the bellhousing. ... unfotunitly you will have to pull both units to fix the problem.....

[rovers2a]

not to mention if you have run it dry, then it heated up and burt the seal out. i almost bet you the seal is gone. id get it fixed before you contaminate the clutch with oils. then you will be needing a friction plate!

[gudjeon]

Not to be a pedantic so-n-so, but the transmission does an automatic transfer of fluid to the transfer case when the seal between the two is worn. I would try looking at the 3 shifter rail shaft seals. EP90 slobbers out of there with new seals let alone old ones. Tunnel off and have a look see.:thumb-up:

[rovers2a]

yup, look up the schematic drawings in the part section of RN's web site. you will see the seals and parts needed.

[SafeAirOne]

Not to be a pedantic so-n-so, but the transmission does an automatic transfer of fluid to the transfer case when the seal between the two is worn.

I was thinking the same thing...I've only heard of oil migrating FROM the transmission TO the transfer case.

Now I'm off to look up the word "pedantic"... ;)

[rovers2a]

well youve definatly " heard " of it now! lol.. my mistake. over worked and under paid it is taking its toll on my brain, and i keep my brain in my cabose, i have a desk job, so i sit on my cabose everyday and keep squishing my brain!:o

[Nanoose]

So...after all the excellent advice I head home to diagnose the issue. It's late dark and raining. Yes, I get to work in the garage but I know that I'm going to get dripped on. I'm in a high state of anxiety as to what I'll find but determined to find the root cause.

So I pull the wifes car out of the garage which actually requires moving three cars (using two sets of keys) to get the Landy in under cover. Of course I tarp the floor first and no, I didn't clean the oil off of it last time I used it so I carefully position it so I can avoid laying in 90W. Of course, while trying to take a photo I forget where the oil is and lay in it anyway. I do appreciate and quite like the smell but find it isn't as appealing to my non-Landy friends.

I turn on the shop lights, turn on the rock and roll and climb underneath to see what's going on. I try and take a couple of photos but nothing really turns out well. Here's an attempt. Where it looks wet is actually oil.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/SVNanoose/1955%20Series%201%20Land%20Rover/IMGP1276.jpg


I wiped up most of the oil and also removed the bell housing plug. Haven't quite figured out where it goes when not in the housing but figure that's a quest for another day. As I clean away I begin to realize that the oil is coming from higher up than I first thought. Hmmm....I then figure out it's primarily coming from the gear case, not the transfer case. Anyone see where this is going?

As I clean higher and higher which, by the way, forces me to assume an ab-crunch position and allows me to get REALLY up close and personal with the bottom of the truck, I gradually realize that the leak is from the top. YES!!! I overfilled the gear case. Give the man a cigar! I'm a bonehead! Couldn't believe it. But climbed out from underneath, cracked my head on the door I'd left open when I put the camera on the front seat, popped open the plate and could see where oil had been squirting out the cap. Absoflaminlutely unbelievable. Could anyone else hear me screaming? But...doesn't look like it's the seals.

Yes...now the fun part. Drain a little, but not all the oil from the case. I was able to keep the tarp clean by letting the warm oil flow down my wrist, over my elbow and into my armpit, soaking my shirt, sweatshirt and jacket sleeve in the process. This also kept the oil drain pain I had ready to catch the excess nice and dry. Perfect...

Got everything buttoned up, went for a spin and things look fairly copacetic. Shuffled the cars again to get SWMBOs car back in the garage and the Landy in it's spot. I'll keep an eye on things for a bit but I'm going to chalk this one up to experience...

Also, I did read the manual as I was changing the oil and stayed really close to spec. I added 1.5 liters, I'm not quite sure how I could have overfilled by that much.

Many thanks to those who offered suggestions. Next time I ask a question I'll preface it by asking "What dumb thing could I have done that would have caused [insert problem here]

Dave

[Jeff Aronson]

Hurray for Rover 2a for diagnosing the problem correctly, and to you for crawling under the car and tracing the leakage correctly!

This problem crops up more with the Fairey overdrives, which often spew out excess hypoid from the their top covers because they take so little hypoid. We've run a couple of articles on this in the magazine in the past.

It's odd that you could fill the transmission case so fully. The filler bolt is about halfway up the transmission case, on the left side, and once it starts to leak back you stop filling it. Normally that assures that you can't overfill it.

Sounds like it's building up excess pressure. Someone who knows more than I should chime in here, but I thought that there was a small breather hole on the top cover. If there is one, I wonder if yours is plugged up?

Jeff

[LaneRover]

Great post! All that is missing is when the hot oil started running down your arm and you jumped up in surprise forgetting you were under the truck followed by, "When I woke up at the hospital" :-)

To fill my gear boxes I usually climb underneath and use the fill plug on the side, pumping the gear oil in from the quart container, that way I won't overfill.

But I think that Jeff's suggestion is really good advice if you are filling from the top, keep the fill plug out so you know you are full.

Don't worry, we ALL have what we think are idiot moments. The fact that you didn't take the transmission and transfer case out of the vehicle to find out all you did was overfill it is proof that you are trying to be smart about it!

Brent

[SafeAirOne]

Where did you put the oil in during the change? Did you take off one of the inspection plates on top?

Like Jeff says, using the fill plug on the side of the transmission only allows you to put so much in, then it comes back out of the fill hole.

[LaneRover]

There is a little mount to put the bellhousing plug into on some Rovers. It would be very simple to make one .

Here are some pics I took of the one on my 1965 Rover, look at the end of the album. My 1966 doesn't have this mount so right now the plug sits in the ashtray on the dash.

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=13425&id=535599102&l=4ada4e8fbb

[bmohan55]

Funny story, sounds like me whenever I climb under my truck. I've had a constant swelling on the back of my head from ALWAYS hitting my head on my open door as I slide out from under the truck. And I'm seriously considering shaving my armpits as it would make it easier cleaning the oil off me whenever I drain something!

The only thing missing in your story is spilled beer and a small fire.

[gudjeon]

My ser1 A suffix transmission has a swing away cover behind the gear shift. Once moved, it reveals a transmission dipstick and the round cap held on by a spring clip. This style is great. Fill and check from the inside while surrounded in ser1 comfort. Almost better than getting oily on the floor.:thumb-up:

[LaneRover]

My ser1 A suffix transmission has a swing away cover behind the gear shift. Once moved, it reveals a transmission dipstick and the round cap held on by a spring clip. This style is great. Fill and check from the inside while surrounded in ser1 comfort. Almost better than getting oily on the floor.:thumb-up:

Agreed! my 58 107 SW has that. Now I just got to get that one going so that I can use that wonderful feature!!

[Nanoose]

I've got the swing away cover too. Makes adding oil easier (maybe too easy?). I don't know how I misread things, I did check the dipstick but thought it was ok. Not sure about the holes on the side of the case, but just got the Haynes manual so I'll see if I can locate it. That would help me avoid a repeat...

bmohan55 - I'll admit to being a bonehead but not sure if I'd admit to spilling beer...

Thanks again!!!

Dave