Genuine Spring Position Determination

[lstrvr]

After a disappointing run with my Heystee Parabolics, I am switching back to Genuine LR leafs. I was lucky enough to find a set of almost new true genuine springs, but was wondering if anyone has any idea on how to determine the "handed" location of each spring? I'm not sure the part numbers are still legible. Has anyone had any luck swapping from their intended position to account for LHD vs. the originally intended RHD?

[Lalo88DK]

Have you been disappointed with Heystee Springs, :eek: in what way, please tell, cause I'm thinking of buying Heystee. I have NEVER heard anyone being disappointed with Heystee. Rocky Mountain and Britpart Parabolic springs have a somewhat poor reputation here in DK (collapsing) Rocky Moutain used to be very good, but I know quite a few that have had serious problems with the newer RM Para's.
I'm still driving on my 1975 original springs, (very bumpy) and I had planned to restore them at some point when fitting a pair of Para's (nice to have a spare set). But if Heystee is just as bad as RM, then I won't waste any money on them.

[Tim Smith]

Hey Steen,
Try regular oiling of the current spring pack. The difference has been quite noticeable for me and you might get a little more mileage on them while you're saving up for the new springs. :thumb-up:

Not sure how to determine which way the springs are handed.

[Jeff Aronson]

I've had a set of Rovers North parabolics on my '66 II-A since 2004, about 90,000 miles now, and I haven't had any problems. The car still handles very well, on road, off road, and hauling trailers around.

I mention this because you write about returning to the original leaf springs. My other II-A still has original springs and you can really feel the difference.

Jeff

[gudjeon]

I put the springs upside down on the floor resting on their shackle eyes. Put them side by side to see which on is taller. The taller one(s) go on the driver's side.:thumb-up:

[J.McKelvey]

I had a set of Rocky mounatin springs on my 88 and the sagged really bad in the front. At the time I had a koenig winch on the front and they said it wouldn't cause a problem but it did. They sent me a set of "Helper" leafs but that didn't help. I know of other people that had the same problem in the front that didn't have a winch but also I know of people that didn't have any problems at all.

I heard they used a cheaper manufacturer for a period of time and there was a problem with the steel being used for the springs. Because of this the springs didn't hold their arch as well.

I landed up getting a set of Ti Console Parabolics (now Heystee) and I never had a problem with them. I have had them on for 2 years now and they still ride great. These were older set that someone bought for a project years ago and didn't land up using them so maybe their quality has drop since.

I kind of think it's a crap shoot with parabolics in a way but I wouldn't go back. My father has original leafs springs on his and I also notice a BIG difference with the ride quality.

Hope this is some help..

John

[TeriAnn]

Have you been disappointed with Heystee Springs, :eek: in what way, please tell,

Yes, please tell. Heystee springs have the best reputation in the parabolics business. Their springs are based upon the IVCO Masif. So far the only problems I've heard of is people getting the wrong spring for the weight of their vehicle. What LR are you driving and what are its axle weights? I'm assuming you took your truck to a scale & got front & rear axle weights so you would know which springs to order before ordering springs.

Your new used leaf springs may or may not be handed and you may or may not want handed springs under your truck depending upon side to side axle weight. I have been told (not confirmed fact) that most US spec trucks came without handed springs because they are LHD.

An 88 & 109 regular have the battery, both diffs, both prop shafts and the weight of the fuel on the right side. Add the weight of a driver on the right side and you have a reason for a stiffer spring on the right side. The engine is offset a little to the left which compensates a little but not a whole lot. A LHD truck puts the weight of the driver on the left to further compensate. 109 station wagons put the fuel tank in the rear and trucks with two front tanks have the fuel weight balanced. Neither require handed springs for LHD.

My suggestion is that if the axle weight is 150 or 200ish pounds heavier on one side with you sitting behind the wheel then consider handed springs. If the difference is less, handed springs will just leave the side with the stiffer springs sitting about 1-2 inches higher than the other.

Rover provided a large verity of springs to compensate for several vehicle weights and configurations. It never hurts to take advantage of their efforts and pick the spring that comes closest to matching you own vehicle.

You asked about spring part numbers. I have a web page (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/spring_rates.htm) with table that include factory spring numbers and the weights they were designed to carry off road. The weights associated with the factory part number will let you figure out which handed spring is for the heavy side and which is for the light side.

And if you are going to use handed springs on a LHD truck, you don't know which side they belong on unless you put each wheel of the truck on the scale one at a time.

Actual data is always better than a W.A.G. or asking people who don't have any data about YOUR truck and will reply based upon their own truck.

[bpj911]

How would the weight of the diffs have any bearing on the handedness of the springs? They are, in reality, holding UP the springs.

[TeriAnn]

How would the weight of the diffs have any bearing on the handedness of the springs? They are, in reality, holding UP the springs.

opps you are right. I obviously got carried away in the pre first cuppa tea morning madness. I do that sometimes.

Is this where I mention that the Land Rover pulls the earth towards it exerting a force on the other side of the springs? All we need to know is the mass of the earth and the mass of the Land Rover. ;)

[lstrvr]

My experience with the Heystee's was very disappointing to say the least. After researching Parabolics and sitting on the fence for years I finally decided to pay the extra money and go with the Heystees. Everything I had read and from the people I had spoke with, they seemed to have the best reputation.

After checking with Heystee and GBR it was determined that my truck, '61 SII 109 Carawagon with 3.0l Perkins diesel, fully loaded, would require the heaviest load range springs. From the start there were minor things about the springs I wasn't crazy about. First off the secondary spring wrap was so large that it rested against the frame once installed. It was noticeably larger than the springs I removed. After less than 1000kms of use, the springs coating was completely destroyed and the springs were covered in heavy rust. I spoke with the dealer about any warranty on the coating, but never recieved an answer.

The big problems surfaced on our trip to Alaska last year. On the trip up, we ended up having the left rear collapse and the fronts started to sag quite bad. The truck was not loaded very heavily at all, and all this damage happened while still on the highway portion of the trip. No off-road at this time.

After a ton of e-mail exchanges with both Heystee and GBR, it was determined that the rear spring was faulty, but when it came to who was responsible financially for the replacement costs, everything fell apart. To repair the lean and faulty spring, Heystee wanted to replace both rear springs on warranty. Perfect, except I was left to pay for shipping on 2 springs from the Netherlands even though I bought the suspension from Utah?!?!:eek: The shipping alone was the price of a complete RM parabolic suspension, and that still doesn't account for the sagging fronts and the faulty coating. After over a year of dealing with both the supplier and the manufacturer, and even though they both admit responsibility due to faulty manufacturing, I have been completely dropped.

It really sucks, as I paid a premium price for this set-up, followed their recommendation and advice, an got less than 15 000kms out of the suspension.

Yesterday I finally swapped out the Heystee's and installed a set of Genuine LR springs, and am quite impressed with the difference in ride quality and stature. It was immediately noticeable that the genuine rear springs had more articulation than the Heystee's due to the fact that we had to jack the truck higher than before to get the truck off the jack stands. After install and driving it last night and today, I have noticed that the ride is smoother and softer on the rears, but obviously a bit firmer on the front. The truck sits perfectly level, both side to side and front to back. The 4 leaf Heystees sit ridiculously high in the rear unloaded. I have regained the height up front that was lost with the sagging Heystees.

On road performance of the Heystees left me with mixed impressions. Yes the ride is softer up front, but the drawback that I experienced was that those softer springs cause major lean when cornering, and felt unstable at highway speeds. The truck had a tendancy to wallow side to side and felt out of control over large bumps at high speeds. Both my wife and myself are unable to notice any real difference with overall ride comfort between one suspension to the other. I now believe that a softer ride does not equate to a better ride or a performance gain. I found the Heystees to perform worse on corrugated roads vs. my old springs or these new genuine springs. A good friend of mine in Alaska also has a Carawagon, and on our trip, I could not keep up with him on the corrugated roads with the Heystees. His Genuine springs seemed to float over the potholes where the Heystees dropped into every one pounding the truck heavily. Off road, the Heystees definately had better front axle articulation than the Genuine springs, but worse rear articualtion.

All in all, my experiences are going to vary greatly with others based on my truck alone. On an 88, these springs may be just fine, but on my Carawagon they just aren't cut out for the job. Another thing to remember is that Heystee himself told me that he has been forced to use a number of different factories over the years and that quality changes from factory to factory. Therefore not everyones experiences are based on the same article. He did however confirm by the serial numbers on my springs that they were manufactured in Germany by his current manufacturer. After swapping to a set of good Genuine springs I am very confident to say that for my truck and uses, the performance offered by the Heystees is not as good as the genuine springs.

[JimCT]

There was a Dutch couple that was traveling through Africa in a series Marshall ambulance. They started out with those same springs and ended up replacing them with conventional leaf springs do to failures.

[TedW]

There was a Dutch couple that was traveling through Africa in a series Marshall ambulance. They started out with those same springs and ended up replacing them with conventional leaf springs do to failures.

FWIW I have had RN paras for years and have been totally satisfied. I bought them with Old Man Emus and put my Woodheads back on after a year - the OME's were way too stiff. I get absolutely no body roll with my setup, which happens to be an 88" soft top - I know things would be different with a loaded hardtop.

My wife and I are considering a trip to Central / South America in our sled after we retire (yes, it's a long way off!). If need be I'll bring an extra set of paras just in case - they don't weigh much. The ride is just so much better, IMO, plus the fact that I never cared for all that blood in my urine when I had the OE springs.