Injection Pump Returns!

[GeoffWillis]

Well it only took three weeks, but today the injection pump for the 2.5 na diesel is back! It was only (Never say only when talking about money...) $485., so much cheaper than buying a rebuilt unit. The shop had never seen anything quite like the Lucas pump and the techs there were fighting over who got to work on it! My guess is everybody got a peak at it and hopefully the combined knowledge led to a primo rebuild, guess we'll have to wait and see. They said they bench tested it and set it to specs (What ever they are...) but my only concern is it's so CLEAN it will look out of place in there. Now begins the re-assembly with new timing belt, tensioner, water pump and lift pump. It will be slow going as I just had my shoulder operated on last week, but I'm chomping at the bit to get going. Also just picked up a 3 hp/60 gallon air compressor so I'll be asking a lot of painting questions in the near future. I like the camo paint and will want to keep it, just needs cleaning up in places (Like windshield frame, doors etc.)
Geoff

[RoverDover]

Be careful if its that IRR camo paint, its toxic as hell! that stuff will give you lung cancer if you sand it, start by scraping with a putty knife. Mine had about 45 coats of mop applied paint.

[GeoffWillis]

I know what you mean by "Mop appliled", it looks that way in areas. How do you know if it's that IRR (Infra Red?) paint? Looks like standard NATO camo paint job, but If it's toxic to sand I'd kinda like to know up front! I know the inside paint is different, looks like some kind of epoxy based paint, a real hard shiny shell. The outside however is typical dull camo. The only reason I'm considering painting is the top of both wings have bondo or some plastic on them, and seem relatively easy to replace, that and I might have leaked brake fluid on them while working in the engine bay... quite an effective paint remover! All is mute for now as need to get it running again before I tackle the next project.
Geoff

[SafeAirOne]

That's about what I've heard everyone else say it costs to rebuild an injector pump, though I was under the impression that the basic DPS pump was a bit more common. Mostly on agricultural/construction equipment. Perhaps not.

I think you got off easy with your 2.5--I'm rebuilding everything BUT my injector pump. :(

Don't forget to double-tension the idler pulley when you reinstall the (hopefully new) timing belt! Very expensive things will happen if you don't, according to the green bible.

I forget--Did you buy the specialty pump timing tools, or did you make your own? Since I wasn't rebuilding my DPS pump, I left mine attached to the timing belt housing.

[GeoffWillis]

I bit the bullet and bought the special tools. Now that I've seen them I see how I could have made my own, but live and learn. When I bought the new timing belt, I neglected to buy a new tensioner and water pump, I think I'll order them tomorrow (If they are open on the holiday). Just seems that while I'm in there it would be silly not to replace them as well. I'm glad to see another 2.5 fan. Seems everybody raves about the 200tdi and 300tdi, and lots of people convert to them, but I really like the simplicity of the 2.5. It may not set the road on fire, but hey, it's not supposed to! I imagine I might feel different if I'd ever ridden in a 300tdi, but my 2.5 in combination with the RoverDrive does just fine. Of course I don't have to deal with too many hills here in Texas either..
Geoff

[junkyddog11]

The 2.5 is a great motor. I'm a fan and I put 200's and 300's in trucks frequently. My SIIA w/2.5 na was the only truck in the fleet that would start.....and stay running in a very cold snap recently.

I will say though that the 2.5 is sort of a lifestyle choice. I can't say that you'll ever get anywhere very fast. I AM glad that my RRC has a 300 in it, but my favorite is and will always be the little IIA. never have to worry about the thing. Just keeps on ticking.

[SalemRover]

It may not set the road on fire, but hey, it's not supposed to!

Why set the road on fire when you can just smoke it out! I too have that lifestyle decision. It forced me to change every bolt to fine thread and nylock. Good luck with the pump!

-Jason

[junkyddog11]

Why set the road on fire when you can just smoke it out! I too have that lifestyle decision. It forced me to change every bolt to fine thread and nylock. Good luck with the pump!

-Jason

haha, one of my favorite driving games is catching things as they fall of the dash.

[VTRover]

The 2.5 NA is a frigging boat anchor. EVERY Rover publication you can find says the same thing. The motor is hopeless. It sucks for wheeling, it sucks for on-road use. I've had three 2.5 NA engines - from new, to re-built to ex-MOD engines from the first Gulf War. Let's get real, this motor SUCKS.

[GeoffWillis]

Well, interesting perspective... and yes I have read the only thing the 2.5 is good for is to be be replaced by a real engine. I guess I'm the "Rain man" of 4 wheeling, I drive slow in the forest. I really like the simplicity of the 2.5, I figure there is a reason the mod only used the 2.5. To each their own.

[Jim-ME]

I have a 2.5 NA in my 88 and wouldn't trade it for anything. So to each his own.
Jim

[junkyddog11]

The 2.5 NA is a frigging boat anchor. EVERY Rover publication you can find says the same thing. The motor is hopeless. It sucks for wheeling, it sucks for on-road use. I've had three 2.5 NA engines - from new, to re-built to ex-MOD engines from the first Gulf War. Let's get real, this motor SUCKS.

I'll bet you have a fake moustache

[Maryland 110]

I'll bet you have a fake moustache

classic.... MB...just classic

[GeoffWillis]

Now that I have all the piece parts necessary to reassemble my engine I was wondering about the crankshaft main seal. As you can see from the picture, it looks pretty clean in there (I've not cleaned anything), but it comes under the "While I'm in there" category.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31277813@N06/4144710841/in/photostream/

Is it simply a matter of pulling the crankshaft gear and pulling out the old seal with a screwdriver (Drain oil first???)? I've got the seal already but I'm paranoid about keeping everything lined up for timing. Hoping to have time this weekend to put the injection pump, water pump, lift pump, belt, belt tensioner all back on and if it's really that simple I guess I should replace the seal.
Thanks,
Geoff

[SafeAirOne]

Now that I have all the piece parts necessary to reassemble my engine I was wondering about the crankshaft main seal. As you can see from the picture, it looks pretty clean in there (I've not cleaned anything), but it comes under the "While I'm in there" category.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31277813@N06/4144710841/in/photostream/

Is it simply a matter of pulling the crankshaft gear and pulling out the old seal with a screwdriver (Drain oil first???)? I've got the seal already but I'm paranoid about keeping everything lined up for timing. Hoping to have time this weekend to put the injection pump, water pump, lift pump, belt, belt tensioner all back on and if it's really that simple I guess I should replace the seal.
Thanks,
Geoff

Wow. That IS clean!

If you bought the pump timing kit, I suspect that it included the pin to lock the flywheel in place.

It doesn't really matter, because it isn't too difficult to time everything using the marks on the cog wheels and on the timing case even if things DO get moved around a bit. (unfortunately, I know this first-hand). You've got to time it up to reinstall the injector pump anyway, right?

Looking at the bible, I'd say that the biggest PITA is removing and replacing the seal with the crankshaft in the way. Probably have to get just the right size pipe to install the new seal, unless you have special tool 18G1456 lying around.

BTW...I wouldn't worry too much about draining the oil--It's all in the sump below the crankshaft anyway.

[junkyddog11]

yes, replace the seal. You'll be really bummed if you put this all back together and the $xx.xx (cheap) part fails and contaminates the timing belt and you have to go back in and do it all again.
Its easier if you pull the front cover off (the one that the IP bolts onto) and you'll run less chance of damaging the end of the crank with the digging impliment used to pry out the seal. Re gasket that all while you are at it. Keep track of which fasteners go where.

[GeoffWillis]

Wow. That IS clean!

If you bought the pump timing kit, I suspect that it included the pin to lock the flywheel in place.

It doesn't really matter, because it isn't too difficult to time everything using the marks on the cog wheels and on the timing case even if things DO get moved around a bit. (unfortunately, I know this first-hand). You've got to time it up to reinstall the injector pump anyway, right?

Looking at the bible, I'd say that the biggest PITA is removing and replacing the seal with the crankshaft in the way. Probably have to get just the right size pipe to install the new seal, unless you have special tool 18G1456 lying around.

BTW...I wouldn't worry too much about draining the oil--It's all in the sump below the crankshaft anyway.



Thanks for the quick reply, few questions:
1) I know this first-hand). You've got to time it up to reinstall the injector pump anyway, right?
What exactly does that mean? I carefully scribed lines in the injection pump/timing case, locked the flywheel with that VERY expensive tool, and lined all the marks up on the gears/timing cover. I was hoping just to put everything back in place and it would magically be timed correctly. I'm guessing that's not the case and if so guess I'll dig into the bible and see what's involved.
2) In reading the bible, what is the double tensioning? Set the tension, crank the engine through two revolutions, slack the belt and repeat?
Thanks,
Geoff

[SafeAirOne]

Regarding keeping everything lined up timing-wise--Let me rephrase: Getting the timing marks a bit out of kilter while fiddling around with the seal won't matter much, so long as they're exactly lined up when you install the timing belt.

Your understanding of the double-tensioning procedure is correct.

TIP: Make sure the timing marks on the cog wheels and timing cover are still lined up AFTER double-tensioning. I swear mine were lined up on all 3 marks before tensioning. I put the whole thing back together without re-checking the timing marks after tensioning the belt. I even added coolant before I attempted to start the engine. Well, it wouldn't start and backfired horribly while cranking. I pulled apart the entire thing to find that the cam sprocket was now clearly 1 tooth off (7 1/2 degrees).

The next time, I (very briefly) started it after double-tensioning the belt and before I put anything else on!

Matt is right about the main seal being easier to change with the entire timing housing removed. If you go this route, remember that there are some gaskets between the timing housing and the block that'll need to be relpaced.

[daveb]

i think that's a clip-on tie



I'll bet you have a fake moustache

[RoverDover]

I have a 2.5, it sucks a lot! But it always starts and has only left me stranded once. A 35$ head gasket was cheaper than an engine swap so I kept it.

[SafeAirOne]

Geoff, Just curious...had you run biodiesel through your pump before it began leaking? I've been doing some research on biodiesel's benefits over the ultra-low sulphur diesel when it comes to lubricating older pumps like ours. It seems that any diesel engine can run B20 biodiesel blend (20% ratio of bio to non-bio), but higher concentrations will effect natural and butyl rubber seals and could cause leakage in the fuel system components unless they were built (or rebuilt) with biodiesel in mind.

Anyhow...Just wondering if higher blends of biodiesel killed your pump.

Info on this from the National Boidiesel Board here (http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Use_of_Biodiesel_Blends_above_%2020.pdf).

[GeoffWillis]

No, I never ran bio diesel, but did run gas... Long story and my son feels bad enough.
Geoff