Land Rover Spring over Lift?

[gzarembo]

Hi there,

I just recently bought new u-bolts and a single inch spacer to preform a spring over on my 1972 series III, the only question I run into is how will I bring the steering inline with the new height? Has anyone heard of a manufactured spacer or sometype of durable metal part that I could use to put everything in line? I appreciate the help, thanks a lot.

~Greg

[solihull109]

I'll put this gently. If you're doing a spring over and don't understand the steering, you're over your head. Seriously, find an off road fab shop and pay the money. The steering is not the only hurdle when going spring over in a Landy. I'm not trying to sound harsh, I'm just trying to save you time, money and your safety.:thumb-up:

[brucejohn]

I'll put this gently. If you're doing a spring over and don't understand the steering, you're over your head. Seriously, find an off road fab shop and pay the money. The steering is not the only hurdle when going spring over in a Landy. I'm not trying to sound harsh, I'm just trying to save you time, money and your safety.:thumb-up:

Hear! Hear! In addition to steering issues, here are a few more from Teriann's site (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LRlift.htm) for your edification:

Several things need to be considered when you lift the body in relation to the axles:
1. You raise the centre of gravity. This means the car will roll at smaller side tilts. If you raise the body more than a couple of inches I strongly suggest that a roll cage be considered. You might also consider having your wheels reworked at a custom wheel shop to bring the offset out. A wider wheelbase is always good in conjunction with a lift.
2. You increase the angle on the short front drive shaft. If the 'U' joint knuckles solidly contact the yolk during articulation the joint tends to break. Radical lifts can be countered by adding wedges between the leaf spring and the axle housing. Unfortunately this has the effect of changing the vertical link steering geometry and making the steering less stable. A way around this is to cut off the mounting flanges at the outside if the front axles, rotate the steering balls and flange back to where the steering vertical link belongs the reweld the flanges into place.
The increased drive shaft angularity can quickly become an issue with the short 88 rear prop shaft as well. The 109 shaft is long enough that this seldom becomes an issue. But you can easily exceed maximum recommended rear prop shaft angles when lifting an 88. Don't be surprised if you end up with a prop shaft vibration that will not go away on a lifted 88..
3. Prop shaft length. A prop shaft has two parts that slide in relation to one another as the suspension moves up and down. One end of the prop shaft has a set of male splines at the end. The yolk end piece has a set of female splines. If the splines were to bottom out when the suspension compresses then the transfer case tends to break. If the splines come apart during extreme downward articulation then the prop shaft rotates free under the car & can provide a short pole vault.
Small body lifts can can affect the length between the transfer case and front diff enough to cause the front prop shaft to separate under extreme downward front articulation.
Prop shafts can be modified for increased articulation or slight body lifts by going to a longer yolk and spline. Rover used a stock off the shelf Spicer yolk and spline assembly. There are two sizes of Spicer yolk and splines available for the diameter of shaft that Rover uses (I've heard of but not confirmed a third) . Rover used the shorter of the two lengths. You can take your stock prop shaft to a company that works on prop shafts and have the longer yolk and spline installed. This is needed if you have increased articulation and will cover small lifts. If you are lifting the car more than two inches or so the prop shafts may also need to be lengthened. The shop will ask the static length between the prop shaft mounting flanges so you should measure prior to bring yours in for rework.
4. Clearance between the front prop shaft and the cross member that goes under the bell housing will decrease as the lift increases. Also anything that increases downward articulation will decrease this clearance. The cure is to make the same modification that is seen in many 109 military Land Rover frames.
They have a diagonal clearance grove in the front of the cross member under the front prop shaft. This can be done in a number of ways. In my Land Rover this was accomplished by cutting out a half circle in the top vertical side of the cross member and hammering the top down to meet the new edge. The new edge was then welded.
5. The rear prop shaft of a 109 goes through a hole in a cross member. If a spring over or taller lift is made in a 109, this hole has to be relocated downwards to maintain clearance during articulation.
6. Shocks will need to be replaced with longer ones. See my page about shocks (http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/shocks.htm) for additional information
Like I said at the beginning, everything is a trade off. Rover made a number of compromises when designing the suspension for your Land Rover. You can not change one thing in the suspension and body height without having it affect other things. One change will often require a number of other changes to bring everything back into acceptable specs. Be careful...be aware..be safe.


Good luck.

[gzarembo]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the help, if anyone else has anymore information that would be great, thanks again.

[TeriAnn]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the help, if anyone else has anymore information that would be great, thanks again.

My thoughts about lifts have already been quoted so I'll mention springs. I've seen a few spring overs and in each case the successful ones are using longer dearched springs to achieve more suspension flex and keep the centre of gravity low enough to go over a bump without capsizing.


http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/AshockBase.jpg
Look how flat the front springs are on this Land Rover.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/AshockRearBott.jpg

And how flat they are on the longer rear springs. The truck itself is hardly lifted but articulation was greatly increased.

Which reminds me, there is a Scout in the area that I've seen a few times & talked to the owner once. It has a spring over. Looks like a real mean 4X4. Only it does not have a front drive shaft. It turns out that the drive shaft angle was too great. Never hurts to do system engineering before making lots of mods.

[ScottT]

TeriAnn,
For a minute I thought you went with rear discs but checked your site and saw they are on Tim's 107. Many questions would have followed otherwise.
Scott



QUOTE=TeriAnn;47194]My thoughts about lifts have already been quoted so I'll mention springs. I've seen a few spring overs and in each case the successful ones are using longer dearched springs to achieve more suspension flex and keep the centre of gravity low enough to go over a bump without capsizing.


http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/AshockBase.jpg
Look how flat the front springs are on this Land Rover.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LR.images/AshockRearBott.jpg

And how flat they are on the longer rear springs. The truck itself is hardly lifted but articulation was greatly increased.

Which reminds me, there is a Scout in the area that I've seen a few times & talked to the owner once. It has a spring over. Looks like a real mean 4X4. Only it does not have a front drive shaft. It turns out that the drive shaft angle was too great. Never hurts to do system engineering before making lots of mods.[/QUOTE]