Do I really have to remove the exhaust to drop the starter?

[Rineheitzgabot]

I haven't given it alot of thought yet, but I have given it enough. It appears to me that I have to remove the pipe from the manifold (three studs), in order to remove the starter. Is this true?

Thanks in advance.

-Gary

[brucejohn]

I know I have read folks saying you don't need to, but I haven't been able to contort the starter enough to do it myself.

[daveb]

never had to. if the steering drop arm is in the right position the starter can come forward and then up, then drop vertically out




I know I have read folks saying you don't need to, but I haven't been able to contort the starter enough to do it myself.

[ScottT]

I've replaced two starters, one on an S3 88, 15+ years ago and on my S2a 109, to a mean green, about 7 years ago and didn't drop the exhaust either time. I did have to rotate the starter "sideways" palming the none geared end and then reposition it once it was above the exhaust to line up the bolt holes.
I've never even heard of dropping the exhaust to do it.

[stomper]

Having asked this same question about 3 months ago, there is some history in the search of this site for opinions on this. I too thought I needed to remove the exhaust, but was assured I would be fine without removing it. As long as you have an original starter, it will come out without removing the exhaust. It is a bit of a tight squeeze to get your hands in there, and you have to manipulate the starter around a little to get it to slide between the exhaust pipe and the frame, but it is not that hard to figure out.

If you have an aftermarket gear reduction starter, I can't vouch for this method. My next starter will be one of these, rather than the original style Lucas design, as I feel they are more robust and reliable, for about the same price.

[kevin-ct]

I have removed the starter both ways. If the nuts and studs are in good shape I would remove the nuts on the exhaust and then remove the starter, it's easer to do it that way. If the nuts are frozen onto the studs then I would not touch them.

If you have a right hand drive truck then it's really easy. (no steering box)

I will be change my starter in a mouth or so, again, bad rebuild!

Cheers,

[Jeff Aronson]

When I had a standard Series II-A starter on my II-A, I found I had to remove the exhaust header. I just couldn't remove it without moving the header pipe, too. I probably did not try all the different moves recommened here at that time.

However, the Series III starter is slightly smaller in physical size. So when I had to replace mine with a "later" one in the parking lot of the Maine State Ferry Service, it slipped in quite well without touching the header.

I do have a Mean Green starter in mine now, and it does crank quite well. However, every so often it will only "whirr" instead of start [it's about 6 years old now], so I don't know if I will continue with that route in the future.

In the past, I've read that the gear teeth don't mesh as correctly with the flywheel teeth as do those on the Lucas starter, but I've never examined this closely. Has anyone done the work on this?

Jeff

[LaneRover]

The steering has to be put all the way to the right or left to get the starter out (I forget which). Doing this gets the steering arm that comes off of the steering box out of the way jjjuuuuuuusssssttttt enough.

Do you have to jiggle it this way and that? Yes you do, and there have been times that I briefly thought, "Damn! This thing isn't coming out" which is usually followed immediately by it coming out.

Brent

[scott]

dudes! writing and reading this thread has taken way longer than loosen'n the exhaust would have. beer me

[kevin-ct]

dudes! writing and reading this thread has taken way longer than loosen'n the exhaust would have. beer me

LOL, Only if the nuts are not frozen onto the stud's. If you brake one, then It's a lot longer and a case of beer.

[Rineheitzgabot]

dudes! writing and reading this thread has taken way longer than loosen'n the exhaust would have. beer me

You bet. It is only three nuts, however, the risk that is assumed of trying to loosen these three, frozen nuts is what I am trying to avoid. I already sprayed them with penetrant in case I found that I had to remove them, but I do not feel like drilling bolts out, or using EZ-outs in that cramped space.

Thanks for all of your input. I will try cranking the steering one way or the other, that may work.

Thanks again.
Gary

[TeriAnn]

I always thought it was a whim of the Land Rover Gods sort of thing that depended upon individual variations in engine mounting, exhaust pipe fabrication and mounting. Some you can squeeze by & some you can't quite. So it is worth fighting the good fight to squeeze it past while your exhaust nuts are soaking in penetrating oil.

Note to self: Don't forget to purchase more incense for the alter of the black and silver oval to appease the Land Rover Gods before starting my next project.

As I remember I've replaced two stock Lucas starter motors over a decade apart. There were different engine mounts & exhaust pipes involved in each. One of them came out and the other required dropping the exhaust pipe.

The second time I switched to a geared starter (there are brands other than Mean Green). Geared starters are physically smaller than the Lucas unit effectively ending the removal contest. They also have the advantage of turning the engine over faster while using less current to do so. Faster starts easier on the battery. So far, knock on bermabright, I have not had a geared starter go bad on me. Both my land Rover and Triumph have had geared starters since the mid 1990's.

[brucejohn]

I think Teriann is on to something.

Looking at the green bibles (series II & IIa and series III) the II & IIa bible notes in Operation A1-9, item 4, "If necessary, disconnect the front exhaust pipe at the manifold to facilitate starter withdrawal." (emphasis added). The III bible at 86.60.01 doesn't comment upon removing the front exhaust pipe, though one drawing shows it left in place, while the next shows it removed.

Another quark of our rovers, gotta love'm.

[Rineheitzgabot]

I think Teriann is on to something.

Looking at the green bibles (series II & IIa and series III) the II & IIa bible notes in Operation A1-9, item 4, "If necessary, disconnect the front exhaust pipe at the manifold to facilitate starter withdrawal." (emphasis added). The III bible at 86.60.01 doesn't comment upon removing the front exhaust pipe, though one drawing shows it left in place, while the next shows it removed.

Another quark of our rovers, gotta love'm.


I agree with you. I think Teriann is on to something as well. Perhaps there were different vendors used on the exhaust pipe, or if the pipes were made in-house, a more dramatic tilt, inward, would make my starter clear the exhaust. It wouldn't take much. And as Bruce- pointed out, it appears that the guys writing the bible were aware of it.

I may be using EZ-outs afterall; I'll let you know how it goes...

[SeriesShorty]

Can anyone offer any experience with removing the 24v starter from an ex-MoD? Now that weather is looking a bit nicer I'm getting ready to start back to work on my 24v to 12v conversion. I'm assuming a 24v starter is a bit larger and will probably require the exhaust removal. :(

I'm torn between getting a spare used starter from a friends old parts pile for free and the $180 geared starter on eBay. :confused:

Thanks all!

[Lalo88DK]

I have an 24 volt ex military 2,25 petrol, and You do have to remove the exhaust downpipe if you have a 24 volt starter motor, I've just converted from a 24 volt starter to a standard 12 volt starter, and with the 12 volt standard Lucas starter there is no problem in getting the starter in and out, without removing the exhaust pipe.

I got quite experienced in removing exhaust pipe and the 24 volt starter for cleaning and refitting it all again in about an hour in total, I think I have done it about 5 times in the last 3 months :eek: The first time I had to fit a new exhaust manifold, the studs broke and the old manifold was cracked. :mad:

I'm planning to convert the rest of the Series III from 24 volt to complete 12 volt, so I can get rid of the rest of 24 volt system, For now I'm running both 24 volt and 12 volt systems with 2 alternators and 3 batteries :sly:.

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo264/Laoren88/DSC_0001-11.jpg

http://i382.photobucket.com/albums/oo264/Laoren88/DSC_0004-2.jpg

[luckyjoe]

(there are brands other than Mean Green).

What brands would these be?

[SeriesShorty]

Thanks Steen, I'll be prepared to remove my exhaust to get the 24v out. No crying over an extra step for a reworked system that will hopefully make life easier and my Rover more reliable. :thumb-up:

[junkyddog11]

I do have a Mean Green starter in mine now, and it does crank quite well. However, every so often it will only "whirr" instead of start [it's about 6 years old now], so I don't know if I will continue with that route in the future.

In the past, I've read that the gear teeth don't mesh as correctly with the flywheel teeth as do those on the Lucas starter, but I've never examined this closely. Has anyone done the work on this?

Jeff

yup, several times.....usually in conjunction with replacing the ring gear on the flywheel that the starter has chewed up.

[Rineheitzgabot]

Well, I did have to remove the exhaust; there was no way to do it without removing it.

I also just decided to have my local automotive-electric place rebuild it, instead of me doing it; I am grateful.

It cost me $53. I was impressed, since the rebuild kit was more, and I would have had to do it myself.

Oh, and yes, I did break a stud. Luckily, there was enough hanging out, that some vice grips could get a good bite on...

[Terrys]

The steering has to be put all the way to the right or left to get the starter out (I forget which). Doing this gets the steering arm that comes off of the steering box out of the way jjjuuuuuuusssssttttt enough.

Do you have to jiggle it this way and that? Yes you do, and there have been times that I briefly thought, "Damn! This thing isn't coming out" which is usually followed immediately by it coming out.

Brent
Turn the steering wheel all the way to the right, push the end of the starter UP, and OUT, towards the fender and it comes right out, bendix first. Goes right back in, in reverse.I have done many, many, and 3 different trucks in the past 2 months. Never did a 24V, so don't know about the diameter of the body, but the 12 volt has plenty of clearance with the wheel turn to the right.
I won a case of Bellhaven last week betting a guy it could be done, and easily. He grunted, groaned, pissed and moaned (after the two nuts were off) rolled the creeper out and declared it can't be done. I cranked the steering wheel, got on the creeper, slide under and came back out with the starter in less than 30 seconds. Now he's claiming I witheld valuable information. Well, Duh! For a case of Bellhaven I'm gonna make it wasy for him?