Rekindling the rollbar fires?

[brucejohn]

After reading through the old threads I thought I might leave well enough alone. Mentioning kids, rollbars and sitting in back appears to bring out strong opinions. Obviously, I changed my mind, got out my paddle and decided to stir.

I want to add a roll bar/cage to my 3 door 109 with 3 seats in the front row. Our family of four has no kids in car seats, though a full back booster will be in use for another couple of years. Currently, except on the ranch we don't use the series with more than 3 passengers. =(

I could go with either an internal or external roll bar/cage though I have always had internals in my jeeps and land cruisers with expedition racks mounted separately. I have a pickup and a full top, both which I like to remove as much as possible.

Though she has a side facing seat I would remove to add a rear forward facing bench, I assume from a D90, and changing to 2 seats in the front row. High backs would be nice, though mounting a headrest and the reels on the roll bar/cage would be good too.

I am not planning on taking family vacations in mine, a backpacking trip or two a year would be consistent. Backpack trips typically involve four wheeling and only two of us. That may change as we all grow up or if I hit the lotto and get a 110. =) Four wheeling for me is usually about getting to where we start a hike or backpack trip, not trail running and certainly not extreme wheeling. Though it would be fun to hook up with others in nearby and do a trail run or two to see what that is like. Having said that taking a long 'expedition' trip "someday" would be a dream though not likely.

Mine is a daily driver, I live 10 miles out a farm and ranch road from a town of about 20,000 and most days I take a child to school or a bus stop. Depending on the wind, speeds to 65 are not uncommon and 50+ daily.

In the end, I guess I have just always had a roll bar, part of my question is do I need one? If so, which ones do folks have? It seems the externals are more common on rovers.

[ShootingCar]

I had a roll cage made of 2" sch. 40 carbon steel pipe with matching plates under the wheel wells that are braced diagonally down to the frame. I have a couple of college daughters who may drive in my truck so I want it safe. I talked with ECR who I got my truck from who thought that only the forward facing seats with three point seat belts were safe. I have additional longitudinal bars for stiffness but not diagonal bracing. I know that Ike recommended diagonals but I wanted it more accessible so I created a picture frame and added the gusset plates in the corners for more moment resistance. The gusset plates also provide the seat belt mounting points. I have three point retractable seat belts on all four seats. The rear seat is a jeep rear seat. The center mounting brackets are bolted to a 3/8 inch plate under the floor for anchorage. I powder coated the roll bar and am very pleased with it.

With the seat belts mounted to the roll bar, I can take the hard top off and put the soft top on and not have to change the seat belt mounting so thats good too.

I also plan to mount equipment to the roll bar. I actually found a pair of old metal milk crates that fit just perfectly under the lower horizontal stiffening bars on the wheel wells and become good places to stuff stuff.
I bunge them in place.



Jeff

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr143/shootingcar/th_P6200039.jpg

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr143/shootingcar/th_P1010068.jpg

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr143/shootingcar/th_P1010065.jpg

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr143/shootingcar/th_P1010059.jpg

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr143/shootingcar/th_P1010060.jpg

[brucejohn]

Jeff...
That looks very nice. Did you build or have it done? The jeep seat looks good too.

[ShootingCar]

I am lucky enough to have a great Model T Restorer down the street from me who is a great welder and constructed the roll bar. I have photos of it in progress if you want to see it. I am self employed and too busy to ever get something like that done. That's why I have had pre-hung wood door leaning up in my garage and not installed!

Jeff

[ivarra]

I had mine installed mainly because I wanted front 3 point seat belts. It is not yet frame mounted, but has a horizontal bar under the tub and at the top connecting the front and back. I think that this year I would like to ask Trevor at RoverLab (he did the original roll cage) to connect the under-tub brackets to the frame. But even now, its better than nothing. Its solid (I can swing on it), and it will save us in a slow roll over.

You can see how my series is used (neighborhood errands, ice cream etc), so I need that comfort level. Also, I don’t have enough knowledge, tools, or time to do it myself. I am starting to feel like I am the only one on this forum who does not do all his own work on his vehicle!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivar2010/sets/72157623506666972/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ivar2010/sets/72157623506666972/)

[scott]

you guys with your worries about the kiddies and their safety...i see things differantly, for everyone your let reach college age that's one rover you won't be able to afford so i don't have a roll bar or forward facing rear seats or even seat belts and i often run w/o the doors on. take the kids for rides all the time. i do have a shovel on the back which serves a dual purpose, one dig'n out when i get stuck and two burying their little bodies when one bounces out. i just have to tell the wife "i don't know where jr's at blah blah"

yep if weren't for three of 'em reaching college age i'd have even more series vehicles, oh well darwin says some of 'em are going to survive...

[ivarra]

for everyone your let reach college age that's one rover you won't be able to afford

Hmmm, lets see now, what do I want when I get older ... my kids or more Rovers? :confused:

I grew up in South Africa, with the lack of vehicle protection and no-whining-take-it-as-it-comes attitude you are referring to, so I can see your point about being over protective, but everyone has their own acceptable comfort limit as far as protection goes.

[scott]

... your point about being over protective, but everyone has their own acceptable comfort limit as far as protection goes.

i was not making point here, just my sarcastic way of whining about not having all the toys i want. because the wife and kids don't visit this board i can make these jokes free from the fear of being beat to death with a short axle whilst i sleep. the wife especially doesn't appreciate dark humor

[usadventureracing]

Shootingcar, please add the photos, I had roll bar but I took out and wanted to make one just like yours. Thanks

[JimCT]

That sharp triangular knife edge shoulder harness mount so close to ones head scares me. Might be better to have something with a bit kinder profile, or just a nut welded to the bar.

[badvibes]

Just something to keep in mind. A roll bar/cage is just the 1st part. If you really think rollover protection is needed you then need good seat belts. Also anything that is loose in the passenger compartment has to go. That tool box in the cargo area becomes a serious head knocker in a roll. My CJ has a full cage. There's nothing left loose in it. My Series on the other hand often has loose items in back. A good cage may offer protection from being crushed but the passengers all need to be secured fast in their places and be free from objects flying around in a roll. If one doesn't do all the needed mods then a roll bar/cage might be a moot point. I was impressed to see the interior in the pics free of loose items. :thumb-up:

[brucejohn]

Just something to keep in mind. A roll bar/cage is just the 1st part.

Good point badvibes!

Thanks for the photos Ivar, that is a beautiful example of an interior cage.

Shootingcar: Yes, post the pictures or better yet a link to where we can view them BIG.

Scott: You have a great sense of humor and good insight. My response is it's all about balance. Of course, if I keep my life balanced what do I need a rollbar for? =)

[scott]

...
Scott: You have a great sense of humor and good insight. My response is it's all about balance. Of course, if I keep my life balanced what do I need a rollbar for? =)

well if you're balanced and you've a roll gage you would be protect from meteors larger than the space between the sections of your gage.

i suspect badvibes comments may be influenced by my series...it's a freak'n rolling shed. i've so much crap in the tub. i am impressed with the tidiness of badvibes and some of the other trucks i see here.

[badvibes]

i suspect badvibes comments may be influenced by my series...

Maybe a little but I was really thinking of Artie's girlfriend when she rolled his FJ. RT was a friend who did things right. Had an 8 point cage built into hid FJ 40, tied it to the frame, good harnesses, stuff securely stowed. His GF Dianne rolled his truck at high speed on a little 2 lane road. Dianne broke both her arms badly when they went thru/inside the steering wheel as the truck rolled several times. Toy was totalled and I mean totalled. Diane survived and recovered from the wreck because the cage held, the harnesses held and she wasn't injured by something flying around inside the truck.

[ivarra]

i was not making point here, just my sarcastic way of whining about not having all the toys i want. because the wife and kids don't visit this board i can make these jokes free from the fear of being beat to death with a short axle whilst i sleep. the wife especially doesn't appreciate dark humor

Sorry Scott, I should have picked up on the humor, especially seeing that its my kind of humor. I must be tired, or I havent had a ride (in my series) lately. Or maybe its my kids annoying me ...

Ivar

[chester rides again]

Brucejohn,

I'm in the same boat as you. I like the pics of the roll bar posted by others, BUT I think it would look much cleaner to replace the hoop setup WITH the roll bar. You would only have to lengthen the straps a bit in the middle.

I'd consider keeping the rear hoop and just have a diagnal bar down the sides on the roll cage - probably not as safe though.

[Firemanshort]

I have often thought about this idea of replacing the 1 inch tubing that holds the soft top up with something more stout - like 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch tubing. I know that if it was tied in the exact same as the normal soft top hoops then it is not attached to the frame and not 'good'. But it has to be 'better' - and I know it would be easy. The easiest may be something as simple as replacing the hoop behind the driver with a larger pipe and leave the rest as-is.

Again - I know it is not NASCAR approved - but most (I know - not all) Series tense moments are off road and on a trail. The roll overs are generally low energy.

The real problem I have seen with this idea is that nobody will build this - too afraid of liability for selling a roll bar that is not really a roll bar.

I would still love to see someone with some weld/bend/fab skills make something that bolts in and takes the place of the regualr soft top hoop(s).

[scott]

...
Again - I know it is not NASCAR approved - but most (I know - not all) Series tense moments are off road and on a trail. The roll overs are generally low energy.

The real problem I have seen with this idea is that nobody will build this - too afraid of liability for selling a roll bar that is not really a roll bar...

just draw it up, take it to a fabricator and tell 'em it's a hand rail for your grandma's bath tup

[thixon]

I have often thought about this idea of replacing the 1 inch tubing that holds the soft top up with something more stout - like 1 1/2 inch or 2 inch tubing. I know that if it was tied in the exact same as the normal soft top hoops then it is not attached to the frame and not 'good'. But it has to be 'better' - and I know it would be easy. The easiest may be something as simple as replacing the hoop behind the driver with a larger pipe and leave the rest as-is.

Again - I know it is not NASCAR approved - but most (I know - not all) Series tense moments are off road and on a trail. The roll overs are generally low energy.

The real problem I have seen with this idea is that nobody will build this - too afraid of liability for selling a roll bar that is not really a roll bar.

I would still love to see someone with some weld/bend/fab skills make something that bolts in and takes the place of the regualr soft top hoop(s).

I will be doing exactly this to my truck. I have already worked out how to tie it to the frame (keep in mind I don't care about originality). When I get ready to fab it, I'll make a thread on it.

[zayante]

Jim Hall took some really good shots of the cage he built for Bill Rice, the previous owner of my 109 SW. It's very well anchored, and has the front seat inertia belts attached to it. The only really inconvenient feature is that there is a bar across the dashboard. On the up side, the front grab handles are handy. The cage makes a good framework to hang a bikini top on.

See:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24659401@N02/with/4405175585/

[badvibes]

Chris-

Good looking cage. :thumb-up: I like that it has protection for the front seat passengers too. Seems like many Rover cages don't add that feature for some reason. Even fewer do it as an internal style. Though I don't really like the look of external cages I have to admit I like the look of the external cage like on the front of a Defender. Here's hoping you never have to find out how stout it really is.

I see either you or your buddy has been to Chimayo.....

[zayante]

Its the most solid cage I've seen. Now all I have to worry about is the loose gear flying around inside.;)

[JimCT]

This is what happens when you hit black ice at 50mph on the way to work.

[badvibes]

JimCT-

Hope everyone was OK. I'm always surprised how well, relatively speaking, the standard hardtop holds up in a roll. I imagine that they would have no integrity at all and will just collapse completely being mostly aluminum. Glad to see I was wrong.

Jeff

[JimCT]

ended up on its side, the dog and me fine just beat up from all the junk flying around the truck. Note, tool boxes hurt! Got a few people and stood it up on its wheels and drove it home. Bought a used windscreen, pickup top and tailgater from RN and used it like that for a few more years.