Quick Waxoyl question

[widerberg]

Hi, All:

I've read the Waxoyl information on the RN Waxoyl site and searched the Series forum, and I'm pretty sure I know the answer. But, better safe than sorry . . .

If I have a frame that doesn't appear to have any internal corrosion (because, well, it hasn't rusted through to the outside of the frame), do I simply shoot Professional 120-4 into the frame and leave it at that, or is there some sort of prep required of the inside of the frame prior to injecting the 120-4?

Many thanks!

[crankin]

The waxoyl can be applied with minimal surface preparation. Clean it if you can.
Here is thier FAQ:
http://www.waxoyl-usa.com/waxoyl-faqs-tech-tips.html

[KevinNY]

I would give the inside a good rinse until water flows from the drain holes clear, then park it on a nice hot driveway for a few days before waxoyl.

[TedW]

I would give the inside a good rinse until water flows from the drain holes clear, then park it on a nice hot driveway for a few days before waxoyl.

That's what I did 15 years ago, and still no rust on my year-round Maine driver.

I touch up the outside yearly and respray the insides every 2-3 years.

[swray]

Are there any recomendations on how to spray the inside. I see many, what look like, factory holes in the frame. Do you insert the flex wand into to these and systematically spray from the front to the back?

[amcordo]

zcNP4INYEMI

[JackIIA]

Nice Link, didn't know this video was out there. I really should do that to my own VW, let alone the Rover. But looks like it really requires a lift or a pit to do it right on a modern car. Though a IIA/III still seems like a straight shot.

[widerberg]

I would give the inside a good rinse until water flows from the drain holes clear, then park it on a nice hot driveway for a few days before waxoyl.

Hi, Kevin. Great tip. I think I'll do that. I'm really leaning towards breaking the truck down to the frame, so that would be a lot easier to do with just a rolling chassis. The more I look, the more "stuff" I want to replace (rusted fasteners, etc.). Not going for a show truck at all, but I'm realizing as I dig deeper that what I want is a total restoration more than a mechanical rebuild. We'll see how finances and my patience allow all this to play out.

Would 3 or 4 aerosol cans of Waxoyl 120-4 work for coating the inside, or are the factory holes not distributed/located closely enough to each other to allow proper coverage? My budget being what it is doesn't really allow for buying the whole kit, including spray guns. To start, I'll probably have to go the rattle can route.

Then again, I also have a Spitfire and a Series 1 XJ6, and they can all use Waxoyl, so in the long run buying the kit will probably be what I do. Just probably not in time for the Landy.

[widerberg]

zcNP4INYEMI

Nice video, Tony. Thanks for posting it. :thumb-up:

[TSR53]

Nice Link, didn't know this video was out there. I really should do that to my own VW, let alone the Rover. But looks like it really requires a lift or a pit to do it right on a modern car. Though a IIA/III still seems like a straight shot.

Exactly. I did this to my 2006 MINI Cooper S R53 and never looked back. It was one of the best preventative mods ever.

http://www.tsrennsport.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/DSC_0038-waxoyl-540.jpg

[TSR53]

Nice video, Tony. Thanks for posting it. :thumb-up:

Go Calef! Oscar gold!

[Calef]

Would 3 or 4 aerosol cans of Waxoyl 120-4 work for coating the inside, or are the factory holes not distributed/located closely enough to each other to allow proper coverage? My budget being what it is doesn't really allow for buying the whole kit, including spray guns. To start, I'll probably have to go the rattle can route.

Then again, I also have a Spitfire and a Series 1 XJ6, and they can all use Waxoyl, so in the long run buying the kit will probably be what I do. Just probably not in time for the Landy.

Widerberg, Im the guy in the video :D I do not recommend using the aerosol for cavity application at all. The aerosols do a nice job of surface touch ups, for protecting surface areas during assembly and they are convenient... but they are no substitute for the proper aplication hardware. When you spray the aerosol cans it comes out like cheese wiz, it makes a foam and the aerosol propellent bubbles out and it leaves a thick gel kind of like shaving cream. The spray is uni-directional. It does not fog cavities and the cheeze-wiz texture does not creep or penetrate into the hard to reach spots.

The professional application equipment fogs the cavity, with a 360 spray. It applies as a very thin liquid propelled by 110 PSI designed to get into ALL the hard to reach places. Bottom line: the product only works if it gets into the places that need to get protected, the aerosol wont do that. That is why Waxoyl insists on using the pro application tools.

If you were contemplating buying the pro kit at some point, buy it early and use it on all your vehicles. Keep in mind, the problem with skimping on the cavity is you wont know you have problems until it is WAAAY to late to fix it easily. Underbody you can scrape the rust off and re-aply... so underbody is not so horrible to use aerosols before you can use the proper pro-tools.

Also, you dont need the whole kit (which includes guns and product for both cavity and underbody), you could just buy a 5L tin of 120-4 (RNW5003), the gun (RNWHRS), and long wand (RNW5015)... totaling $331.89 before taxes and shipping. You loose a slight discount on the kit but you don't have to buy it all at once. Then later in your project when you are ready for underbody protection you can get the hardwax (RNW5005) and the hi-flow application gun (AKA "the spray and pray" RNW5017).

So that is my 3 cents. Of course any protection is better than no protection so do what you can! :cool:

Happy Waxoyling!

~Calef Letorney

[widerberg]

Calef, thanks for the very comprehensive reply. And thanks for the information on the aerosol solution. That would not have been good :)

I suppose I'll have to wait a little while and save up for the "real deal." I know I can use it on all my vehicles, so that's a benefit.

One more question, slightly off-topic: I'm noticing a lot of different Waxoyl products when I Google. There's obviously the Waxoyl (R) Professional Car Care system that RN sells. But I've also found a Finnigans Waxoyl and a Hammerite Waxoyl. Are there different formulations? Or different companies licensing the same formula?

[glbft1]

hey wait a minute, I purchased the cans from rovers north for my 109 and greg told me that was fine to use, now you have somebody saying the cans for inside are not good, whats the deal??

[Calef]

hey wait a minute, I purchased the cans from rovers north for my 109 and greg told me that was fine to use, now you have somebody saying the cans for inside are not good, whats the deal??

I am sorry if you feel you were mis-informed. Greg and I are the two techs here at Rovers North trained by Waxoyl Professional AG of Switzerland. We have spent a great deal of time using and learning about the products so we can consistently provide appropriate advice to customers. I can't comment on what Greg told you or how you interpreted that, however I just spoke with Greg about this and he agreed...

We always try to steer people towards the professional equipment, period. That is the only way to achieve optimal results. However, many people do not wish to spend the $ on the equipment and the 5L tin or they do not have the proper application environment. It is for this reason Waxoyl is labeled "for professional use only." If you don't use the pro tools you can't expect the pro results. I can't tell you how often people tell me "well I can't afford the equipment and I don't have a lift and/or compressor. Can't I just take the aerosol and spray that and get some benefit." At that point all we can say is YES. Applying an aerosol is better than nothing.

If the choice is between no Waxoyl or Waxoyl from an aerosol, then Waxoyl from an aerosol is clearly better. Especially on the underbody, where the fogging and penetration is not as big a factor like it is in the cavity. If you use an aerosols on the underbody it leaves a different texture, the job is a big mess and you do not have the air pressure to force the product into the cracks, but it is WAY better than nothing. The Aerosol in the cavities is less effective, but still better than nothing.

If you wish to speak further, feel free to contact me directly ether on the forum or by calling Rovers North and asking for me. If you have not used the aerosols and you wish to exchange for a pro kit we can certainly do that.

OR if you have used the aerosols, there is no reason not to reapply with the pro equipment. In fact, my first intro to Waxoyl 8+ years ago was using 7 or 8 aerosol cans of Hardwax on the underbody of my Land Rover. We didn't know anything about pro equipment or cavity application. Since learning to use the Pro application equipment I have done the full application to my Land Rover 4 or 5 times. This is in part because I drive all year in the VT extreme rusting conditions but more because before I knew of Waxoyl I applied a Wurth product that to this day continues to peal off (taking the waxoyl with it!) exposing a painted chassis... so i touch it up to cover those places before they rust. I think eventually all the Wurth will have pealed off and I will have Waxoyl directly on the frame!

The ability to touch up and apply over existing product is a big benefit of Waxoyl. Most other products require a restoration, scraping/ removal to reapply. With Waxoyl, all you have to do is pressure wash and degrease the underbody and you can apply again. The more times you reapply the better as it builds a thicker skin of Waxoyl for more protection and sound/ vibration dampening.

Hope that helps, again feel free to contact me directly.

Best regards,

Calef Letorney

[glbft1]

Thanks for the reply, I think I will call and buy the kit and spray my other rangies too, keep up the good work guys!

[TedW]

I'm noticing a lot of different Waxoyl products when I Google. There's obviously the Waxoyl (R) Professional Car Care system that RN sells. But I've also found a Finnigans Waxoyl and a Hammerite Waxoyl. Are there different formulations? Or different companies licensing the same formula?

Calef:

Can you explain the difference between your Waxoyl product and the Waxoyl products from Hammerite and from Finnegan's?

[Firemanshort]

FWIW - Last year, I made some small frame repairs. I spoke at length to Calef and the RN boys about waxoyl. I went the rattle spray can route.

The black exterior hardwax from the spray can was fine for spot treating the repair spots. It was simple, cost effective, and after a few rallies, lots of mud, and subsequent pressure washing, the wax is holding up fine.

I also bought the 'white' interior spray wax. Exactly as Calef describes, it does not work that well. It did fine enough for me to spray around inside the large cavities I exposed during my repair. But the coating inside was far from even with lots of globs and such. (As Calef described - not a professional result). I am sure that the interior treatments helped as far as rust prevention - I mean it could not have hurt, right?

If was serious about the cavity protection then that little spray snake it definately the way to go. For just a spot treatment without the cost and commitment of the whole job then the rattle can 'ain't that bad'.

[Wander]

Great thread-this is on my list of projects for the IIa-my frame is in great shape and appears to have the exterior wax treatment but I don't know if the interior was done. Is there a way to check?

This is OT but I noticed you haven't one balled the MCS Thompson-it's a cheap mod and you'll pick up a few BHP plus a better exhaust tone.

[TSR53]

Great thread-this is on my list of projects for the IIa-my frame is in great shape and appears to have the exterior wax treatment but I don't know if the interior was done. Is there a way to check?

This is OT but I noticed you haven't one balled the MCS Thompson-it's a cheap mod and you'll pick up a few BHP plus a better exhaust tone.

Aahaa - good eye mate :thumb-up:. My R53 just came off warranty Feb 24th, 2010. My plan is simple. Get all the JCW bits I couldn't when we ordered it new (I know, I know the one ball mod is GOOD and doesn't really cost that much). BUT, I'm a Genuine kinda guy :rolleyes: and want to see if my original R53 exhaust can match my original on my 1995 Audi S6 with over 202,478 miles and counting... I know it won't but still hope for the best.

On my list of mods
- First up is tires to replace my OE runflats. I need these bad on my BBS R90s. Going with Dunlop Sport Maxx or Direzza Z1s. Before the tire rack special is over.

Next in line, brakes
- JCW brakes (gotta love these and should be on this track season!!!)

Further down the route...
- JCW stainless steel full exhaust (might be sooner than I hope for?)
- JCW full engine kit (or Jan tune and other mods)

Ok back to the subject at hand. Here is how WELL the 120-4 wand works at atomizing Waxoyl clear. Notice Calef is applying this to the right side of my rear hatch and is exiting through the same hole left open on the left !!!
http://www.tsrennsport.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/DSC_0033-waxoyl-970.jpg

and the oscar winning Waxoyl applicator himself...
http://www.tsrennsport.com/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/DSC_0027-waxoyl-970.jpg

[Wander]

What size patch is on the coveralls??

So I'm guessing the interior of the frame rail should have a white-ish color to it if it has been treated?

sorry back to the R53 (MINI speak for the good one!)

I switched to Goodyear F1's when I wore out my Dunlops at 19K and I loved them. Sticky,much quieter and much better ride but also a higher mileage tire as they are not as soft as the two you mentioned. Throw a compressor and bottle of sealent in the boot and you're set. As for the other mods-the JCW stuff is great but there are some much better choices that run a little less $$.

This is me running the Dragon in my R53

[Calef]

Can you explain the difference between your Waxoyl product and the Waxoyl products from Hammerite and from Finnegan's?


Ted, I am only aware of one other Waxoyl sister company, Finnegan's... which may be produced by or later relabeled for Hammerite. I am not sure.

A couple of decades ago the Waxoyl product and trademark was purchased by Waxoyl Professional for the entire world, except England where the Finnigan's Waxoyl is from.

Quite some time ago Waxoyl Professional realized that while very good, the Waxoyl formula needed to be updated/ improved. That is when Waxoyl Professional created Hardwax for the underbody, which is significantly more durable than the original Waxoyl and Waxoyl Professional 120-4. 120-4 has a higher temperature resistance, better lubricating properties, better creeping action, and is more durable than the original Waxoyl. To my knowledge the Finnigan's formula has not been updated... granted I know little about Finnigans other than it looks and smells a good bit like Waxoyl Professional 120-4... which makes sense as they are largely composed of the same wax and solvent.

Waxoyl Professional has also worked to get the best product delivery system, which we now refer to as the "professional application tools", because the product only works if you get it in the places where rust starts. To my knowledge Finnigans is still selling a hand pressurized pot, much like pesticide sprayers. Waxoyl Professional has the high pressured tools to fog the cavities and get the 120-4 in all the tight places which makes all the difference.

Thats what I have been told anyways... I don't have much experience with the Finnigan's, but l know it is much cheaper. Unfortunately due to the nature of the job, a cheap solution could end up being a costly mistake! You wont know the difference until it is too late and your chassis and or body panels have rotted from the inside out and need to be replaced.

Hope that helps!

~Calef Letorney

[TedW]

Calef:

Thanks for the response. IIRC your product is not that different in cost from what I used to pay for the old Finnegan's stuff.

I bought a couple of applicator hoses / wands from you guys at the British Invasion a few years ago and plan to use them this summer. I have adapted them to fit my applicator - hopefully they will work.

Does the hardwax need to be thinned before application? If so, with what?

What psi do you suggest for best application?

[TSR53]

Calef:

Thanks for the response. IIRC your product is not that different in cost from what I used to pay for the old Finnegan's stuff.

I bought a couple of applicator hoses / wands from you guys at the British Invasion a few years ago and plan to use them this summer. I have adapted them to fit my applicator - hopefully they will work.

Does the hardwax need to be thinned before application? If so, with what?

What psi do you suggest for best application?

From the FAQs page...
http://www.waxoyl-usa.com/waxoyl-faqs-tech-tips.html


Hardwax
• Apply AFTER applying Waxoyl Professional 120-4


• Properly prepare the surface before application. Watch the movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEVOtUjUytM

• Optimal product temperature for application is 70º F. Do not apply product at less than 59 F. Optimal ambient temperatures for application are between 41 F and 104 F. Tins and aerosols can be heated in a bucket of hot water.

• Mix well by shaking 5-liter tins and Aerosol cans. 58 Liter drums can be mixed, by blowing air using the HRS Gun and the long wand.

• If the product is not easy to shake and does not pour smoothly into the guns it is not warm enough! Warm before pouring into the gun.

• When using the HW-98 gun, apply using approximately 48 PSI. Pressure can be adjusted slightly to compensate for the products viscosity which is determined by temperature, i.e. if the Hardwax is hot you may find it is wise to slightly turn the pressure down for material economy. When using the HW 98 gun to apply take special care not to greatly exceed recommended pressure as it could damage the equipment. When using the HRS gun and the K-2 wand the air pressure can be between 70- 100 PSI.

• Recommended areas for application on passenger vehicle: All underbody surfaces except exhaust and heat shields, drive train and fuel tank (as increased insolation could encourage condensation inside tank).


• Remove over-spray with white spirits, Waxoyl Professional120-4, or vegetable oil.

[TedW]

Hardwax

• Apply AFTER applying Waxoyl Professional 120-4

Does this mean that I am to apply the hardwax OVER a layer of 120-4?

[TSR53]

This means that you normally start the complete Waxoyl application using 120-4 from the front of the Land Rover working back through interior body parts, bonnet, inside doors, etc first - parts and locations that are not as subject to environmental conditions. Then, you apply hardwax to the underside, chassis and parts exposed to harsher environmental conditions.