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thixon
05-06-2010, 01:36 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-LAND-ROVER-SERIES-IIA-2A-88-STATION-WAGON-NAS-/270570642142?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3eff445ade

Maybe things are looking up for us guys. A ton of bids, and its up to over 19k.

Its a nice truck, with a bunch of new parts. Nothing special though, and certainly not an original resto attempt. Looks like a lot of the galvy as been sprayed silver.

Let the critiquing begin!:thumb-up:

crankin
05-06-2010, 01:57 PM
Seeing this go up to 19,600 makes me wonder what I can get for mine. Jac put your lightweight up for sell! I wanna see how high it will go!

JackIIA
05-06-2010, 02:16 PM
Travis - saw this the other day and almost posted too. hard to believe the current bidding...and reserve not met yet? cruise-azy.

Wander
05-06-2010, 03:46 PM
Wow that is a lot of $$-and I hope he get's it!

I think that is the first door plate I've seen, when did they start putting those on?

greenmeanie
05-06-2010, 04:45 PM
I don't have the exact date but the ddor plate came in on the Late IIA. Federal regs.

jac04
05-06-2010, 08:19 PM
Jac put your lightweight up for sell! I wanna see how high it will go!
Tempting, but I'm not sure about going the e-bay route. If someone is seriously looking for a Lightweight like mine, I'm sure they'll find me.

I saw that SIIA while cruising on e-bay yesterday. It's a nice looking vehicle, and I'm curious to see what that level of quality brings for a price. Now, am I seeing things, or does the paint on the rear tub and bulkhead not match the rest?
Look at this picture:
http://i.ebayimg.com/07/!Br8Zohw!2k~$(KGrHqQOKi4EvN9ENgK7BL109gZJ3g~~_12.J PG

martindktm
05-06-2010, 08:37 PM
Now, am I seeing things, or does the paint on the rear tub and bulkhead not match the rest?
Look at this picture:
http://i.ebayimg.com/07/!Br8Zohw!2k~$(KGrHqQOKi4EvN9ENgK7BL109gZJ3g~~_12.J PG (http://i.ebayimg.com/07/%21Br8Zohw%212k%7E$%28KGrHqQOKi4EvN9ENgK7BL109gZJ3 g%7E%7E_12.JPG)

I was going to post the same exact question after seeing the ebay pictures....

crankin
05-06-2010, 09:29 PM
I don't have the exact date but the ddor plate came in on the Late IIA. Federal regs.

My 72 was born in Feb...it has the door plates too. So, at least we know that June '71 they could be staples

4flattires
05-06-2010, 10:33 PM
Its not real. I've seen this a thousand times. A few minutes with PhotoShop and one of the "Rovers waiting to be rescued" pics and you wind up with a resto-Rover like this. Unscrupulous folks make millions from schemes like this.

Notice any oil leaks? Ya, me neither.
Does the ad describe any squeeks? Noooope.
CD changer? Mounted under the seat? Blasphemy!
And whats up with the red master cylinder? Did my Green Bible lead me astray?

I'm going back to counting my rivets and checking to see if there is any more beer in the cooler.

:p

JimCT
05-06-2010, 10:42 PM
What have some of you put into your rovers? Ebay is a free market place, if it sells great for him or her. You get pleasure in dissing some LR owner that probably has more than that spent on the rover? I just don't get it.

bobzinak
05-06-2010, 10:54 PM
I'm wondering what happened to the front side marker lights???

scott
05-06-2010, 11:15 PM
... I just don't get it.

jim they (and me too) love to poke fun of those who do what they (we) can't do. that is dump a huge amount of time and money into a rove and sell it. for me i would love to sell mine but i won't let me so instead i'll make fun of those who aren't as psychotic as i, we, me, them....

83lee
05-06-2010, 11:28 PM
Well, here are a few random thoughts.

Seems that the worst trouble with selling on Ebay is that it may take four or five auctions until you actually find someone with the money. How many of these have we seen that keep reappearing? And often the final "real" sales price is a bit lower than the "initial" sales price.

And, look at the bidders slug it out with days to go, rather than with ten seconds to go. Just dumber than dirt... (from a buyers perspective, anyway).

amcordo
05-07-2010, 06:24 AM
And, look at the bidders slug it out with days to go, rather than with ten seconds to go. Just dumber than dirt... (from a buyers perspective, anyway).

It doesn't work quite like that anymore... As the buyer you set a price you're willing to pay, and ebay automatically keeps bidding up to that price.

So if I bid $100.00 on a car that's going for $1.00 with no bids my bid stays at $1.00. Then someone else comes along and bids $50.00, my bid will automatically raise to $50.01 and so on until it goes up past $100.00.

So if you wait till the last ten seconds and you don't put in a bid that is higher than everyone elses you'll lose it. Bottom line is that you don't necessarily save money by waiting till last minute and you very much increase your chances of not getting the car. Of course, this assumes getting the car is more important than staying in a budget...

ivarra
05-07-2010, 08:13 AM
Looks a lot like mine, but not as good. Obviously the person who did my resto was Jac04.

Anyway, believe it or not, there are a lot of people out there (like me) who dont want to get a Series and work on it every weekend. Mainly because we dont have the time or detailed knowledge. We want to drive it for pleasure, use it as our weekend runabout, and not necessarily always off road either. To quote Richard Hammond "use it for something important", like taking kids to get ice cream or going to play golf!

I dont even expect it to break down (:eek: I know, call me naive), but when it does I will be on the phone to Trevor at Roverlab seeking assistance. I believe in mom & pop shops sustaining the economy ;)

I dont believe this Ebay item is a scam. If I did not have my series, I would do some homework on that vehicle and start bidding if all was legitimate. So yes, we are prepared to pay a premium for quality. And as Jac says, if someone wants his LW, they will find him, and he will eventually get the price it deserves.

Ivar

TedW
05-07-2010, 08:16 AM
I think that is the first door plate I've seen, when did they start putting those on?

Um....What's a door plate?

Wander
05-07-2010, 08:34 AM
Um....What's a door plate?


In one of the photo's it shows a data/build plate inside the door jam.

(to everyone) I also noticed the mention of a CD changer- I can't imagine that working unless it is supported by some very effective anti-vibration gel. Even fully restored, a Rover is a bouncy ride and CD's don't like getting knocked about. I did see in the questions in the ad that the seller has not installed speakers, so why the CD changer??

TedW
05-07-2010, 08:53 AM
In one of the photo's it shows a data/build plate inside the door jam.

Oh - thanks. I thought they all had 'em.

yorker
05-07-2010, 09:24 AM
There is confusion when it comes to rebuilds vs. restorations. It is interesting to see the different approach different owners will go to when they perform one or the other. Restorations often require exhaustive refurbishment and lengthy searches for NOS and rare correct parts, labels, etc. This 88 is a rebuild, built by picking and choosing off the shelf parts, without a real effort at preserving the originality of the vehicle through an exacting restoration process. Checkbook mecanno- Open wallet install new parts, done.



Having said that there is nothing wrong with that as long as the buyer knows what he is looking for and gets what he wants. It is a free market and I think it is cool to see a rebuilt 88 get such attention. Maybe the market is turning around for these things.

crankin
05-07-2010, 10:07 AM
WOW! We are up to $22,000!! I am just really excited to see this thing go up to that price. Its hard to think that it started out at $200 and now we are up to this price.

4flattires
05-07-2010, 10:44 AM
Ivarra, my post stating this was a scam was placed with humor in mind. :)

Regarding the observations on paint mismatch, a common error made in painting when panels are off the vehicle and done over time can be due to not mixing the paint for long enough. Pigments settle and if you're doing old skool paint stick stirring, you will get color variations from the same can of paint.

JackIIA
05-07-2010, 10:46 AM
My 72 was born in Feb...it has the door plates too. So, at least we know that June '71 they could be staples

I have a door plate on my Dec 1970, so that's the new low.

Wander
05-07-2010, 10:52 AM
No door plate on my 64-but I'm not sure if one is supposed to be there or not. My guess would be around 68 these showed up as part of some new DOT regs.

22K -wow that is a lot.( I better not tell my wife about this-she'll get some level headed ideas for sure!)

amcordo
05-07-2010, 11:36 AM
No door plate on my 64-but I'm not sure if one is supposed to be there or not. My guess would be around 68 these showed up as part of some new DOT regs.

22K -wow that is a lot.( I better not tell my wife about this-she'll get some level headed ideas for sure!)


Ha! Come home and the rover will have a for sale side in the window?

amcordo
05-07-2010, 11:39 AM
In one of the photo's it shows a data/build plate inside the door jam.

(to everyone) I also noticed the mention of a CD changer- I can't imagine that working unless it is supported by some very effective anti-vibration gel. Even fully restored, a Rover is a bouncy ride and CD's don't like getting knocked about. I did see in the questions in the ad that the seller has not installed speakers, so why the CD changer??


I'm just guessing here, but probably didnt know where to install them. From several other threads posted on here I know I'm not the only one that's really struggling with WHERE to install/place speakers so that they'll be out of the way and work OK without cutting the body apart.

TedW
05-07-2010, 11:46 AM
I have a door plate on my Dec 1970, so that's the new low.

Mine is 3 / 70.....

JackIIA
05-07-2010, 12:17 PM
Mine is 3 / 70.....

DOH !

bmohan55
05-07-2010, 12:38 PM
Kinda feel sorry for the buyer of this truck, certainly will get a nice ride but will miss out on the "bonding" that comes from working on it. I bought mine off e-bay, advertised as in excellent mechanical condition but as my post history can attest it wasn't. I may have spent a lot more money in repairs on it than intended but the knowledge and understanding that I acquired in the process was very much worth it.

Different strokes for different folks.

Wander
05-07-2010, 12:50 PM
I'm just guessing here, but probably didnt know where to install them. From several other threads posted on here I know I'm not the only one that's really struggling with WHERE to install/place speakers so that they'll be out of the way and work OK without cutting the body apart.

a little OT but mine has pie plate sized speakers right behind the door jams along the side of the top. They are not hooked up but it appears the PO had a radio in at one time and ran the speaker wires along the door tops to the speakers. You don't have as much room in the 109 but something along those lines might work.

Wander
05-07-2010, 12:54 PM
Kinda feel sorry for the buyer of this truck, certainly will get a nice ride but will miss out on the "bonding" that comes from working on it. I bought mine off e-bay, advertised as in excellent mechanical condition but as my post history can attest it wasn't. I may have spent a lot more money in repairs on it than intended but the knowledge and understanding that I acquired in the process was very much worth it.

Different strokes for different folks.

Yeah I guess. I'll admit to being hesitant in buying mine due to it being too clean and not having a lot to do but in the end the price/deal won out.
This one is in "The OC" after all where there is a HUGE amount of classic cars and trucks and high end exotics so buying it that way is pretty normal.

greenmeanie
05-07-2010, 01:00 PM
Kinda feel sorry for the buyer of this truck, certainly will get a nice ride but will miss out on the "bonding" that comes from working on it.


Give him 6 months or a couple of thousand miles. Its a series - something will break.

jac04
05-07-2010, 01:04 PM
...the buyer of this truck...will miss out on the "bonding" that comes from working on it.
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
For example: I now have about 150 miles on my LW restoration. Apparently on the way home from getting ice cream with my 4 year-old daughter last night, we must have run into a swarm of those little black flies. Well, there are fly guts on my front differential casing!! I must have at least 60 hours into the rebuild & detailing of the front axle assembly, and now THIS happens. I got under there with my sprayer of distilled water, Meguiar's Quick Deatiler and microfiber cloths, but it will just never be the same. (Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little, but only a little. :o )

Sometimes it's hard to really enjoy something that you have spent so much time on. The only way to keep it looking as good as it does right now and not 'spoil' any of your hard work is to let it sit in the garage. What fun is that?

scott
05-07-2010, 02:04 PM
...Sometimes it's hard to really enjoy something that you have spent so much time on. The only way to keep it looking as good as it does right now and not 'spoil' any of your hard work is to let it sit in the garage. What fun is that?

maybe this is why i haven't finished my 88. or maybe it's cuz i fear screw'n up the paint job, or maybe cuz i'm lazy, or maybe cuz i'm broke or...

ignotus
05-07-2010, 04:04 PM
Happy buyer pays $22,800! Whew......that's alot of cashews, i hope the seller is happy too!

amcordo
05-07-2010, 05:36 PM
Give him 6 months or a couple of thousand miles. Its a series - something will break.


+1 for honesty.

amcordo
05-07-2010, 05:39 PM
a little OT but mine has pie plate sized speakers right behind the door jams along the side of the top. They are not hooked up but it appears the PO had a radio in at one time and ran the speaker wires along the door tops to the speakers. You don't have as much room in the 109 but something along those lines might work.


Yeah, my PO put two of the outdoor home speakers in under the custom middle bench. He said the "damn things were never very loud". 8ohm speakers running on a weak 4ohm head unit will do that. Anyway, it was one of the better installs I've seen so far, but just not my style.

Let me bounce this off you. What about placing wakeboard speakers on the bar I'm installing temporarily during summer (top is off) mounted to the windshield. http://www.google.com/products?q=wakeboard%20speakers&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wf Easy to steal, but great for sound!

yorker
05-07-2010, 06:19 PM
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
For example: I now have about 150 miles on my LW restoration. Apparently on the way home from getting ice cream with my 4 year-old daughter last night, we must have run into a swarm of those little black flies. Well, there are fly guts on my front differential casing!! I must have at least 60 hours into the rebuild & detailing of the front axle assembly, and now THIS happens. I got under there with my sprayer of distilled water, Meguiar's Quick Deatiler and microfiber cloths, but it will just never be the same. (Obviously, I'm exaggerating a little, but only a little. :o )

Sometimes it's hard to really enjoy something that you have spent so much time on. The only way to keep it looking as good as it does right now and not 'spoil' any of your hard work is to let it sit in the garage. What fun is that?


It is a truck, use it or sell it. :thumb-up: These things aren't meant to be put under glass.

SafeAirOne
05-07-2010, 09:09 PM
I'm a firm believer that a Rover can be restored to the point that it is unusable in a practical sense. I admit that I love to see exquisitely restored Rovers with great attention paid to the slightest detail, I just don't want to see my rover like that--They're just too fun to drive in their natural habitat.

JackIIA
05-07-2010, 11:24 PM
Final Winning Bid: $22,800.00
Number of Bids: 42

The winning bidder only placed one bid (probably a programmed snipe). Got to hurt if you were one of those slugging away at $100 increments over the days, only to lose out by that much!

Maybe we'll hear from the new owner in a bit?

TeriAnn
05-08-2010, 09:57 AM
Sometimes it's hard to really enjoy something that you have spent so much time on. The only way to keep it looking as good as it does right now and not 'spoil' any of your hard work is to let it sit in the garage. What fun is that?

Oh I don't know ... Sometimes it just depends upon your mind set. In 1997 I spent over $3000 on body repairs, a couple new panels and a professional paint job. Before the paint was cured enough to apply wax it had a bunch of horizontal brush scratch marks along its flanks.

I'm a strong believer in the adage "Take care of your gear and it will take care of you". I like to keep my truck in good functional condition AND looking as good as reasonably possible. That means both clean and the occasional coat of polish. 13 years later and I'm starting to think about replacing the now cracking seat upholstery, putting a new gel coat on the lifting roof and a new coat of British Racing Green paint on the body below the roof. I'm just putting it off because it is a LOT of work to strip the roof and interior off a Dormobile.

There is no rule that says that you can not use your truck and also keep it nice looking. A clean truck is a sign of someone who knows how to take care of their gear. I often think a dirty rig that isn't on or just off the trail is the sign of someone who really doesn't care nor takes pride in their truck.

A lot of Series owners poo poo a well kept truck and preach the beauty of worn paint's patina, the honor of unfixed body damage and the authenticity of deep layers of dirt and grime. Obviously I don't agree. I think there is something more special about a truck that is well used, properly maintained and lovingly cared for.

I just think that there is a lot positive to be said about people who maintain their truck and take pride in how it looks. So go ahead and clean the bugs off the diff if it feels like the right thing to do but don't be afraid to get the diff scratched up. You can always repaint it.

J.McKelvey
05-08-2010, 11:00 AM
I agree. There's a difference between using and abusing a series rover. I use my rover everyday for work or play. I find it runs better but that's my option. Some people my think it's hard on the old rovers but I keep mine well maintained and Don't have too many troubles with it. After all it is my baby.

It's all about how you get enjoyment out of your rover. The meaning of enjoyment changes from owner to owner and is as diverse as the trucks themselves. However its done really just comes down to the pure enjoyment of being a rover owner.

Lalo88DK
05-08-2010, 01:07 PM
I'm of the opinion that Land Rovers are meant to be used (and also as others said, not abused) but I still like to keep my Series Land Rover, very tidy and well maintained, because it's my daily driver too (approximately 15000 miles a year). Over the last 30000 miles it has only let me down twice both times due to a new cheap D45 copy distributor but it still managed to get me home by it's own power after a little roadside repair.

Broadstone
05-08-2010, 04:10 PM
There is a 1974 88 on ebay now with a huge homemade rear x-member, a questionable bulkhead (green under the bonnet), center bulkhead welding repairs can be seen. Looks as if nada lights have been changed out. Engine compartment seems quite untidy also. Since I have been by this dealership I got curious and the sellers website has it priced at $19,900. Tis the season I guess????

Rineheitzgabot
05-08-2010, 09:32 PM
I would like to get back to the point with this auction, and how this person was able to get that kind of money.

I must say that the person selling this truck presented it masterfully. One technique that I have had great success with, is taking many pictures. This person took many pictures, and additionally, the pictures were fairly high definition, and both of these points lead potential bidders to think they are getting what they are paying for; as it should. Anyone ever seen an auction with three pictures of the item; front, back, and one side? Immediately turns me off. Another thing they did, silly or not, was the background content of the pictures. Nice, Florida-type landscape, with clean, non-confusing lines. Again, this sounds silly, but I think it really helps. Imagine the same truck parked in a driveway (like mine :o) where you can see a cluttered, messy garage, or several donor-trucks in the background. I think it simply wouldn't present itself as well.

As for the restoration, what I stated above had to be done since the restoration (or whatever you want to call it) was not exactly top-notch. I am simply stating my opinion, and I agree with Thixon in that it is not top-notch. The galvy painted silver, the obnoxious oil-free underside, etc. Whoever did it, took great care to clean everything to excess, but I fear there is alot of "dressing up a pig" going on. Paint and degreaser can do wonders if someone is not afraid to apply a little effort and sweat. Not that it is a bad Rover, by any means, and I would also like to say to anyone who will be angry with me for speaking negatively about it: I probably could not have done better. But I can respect the Concourse-grade of work that Jac04 does, and this certainly ain't it.

jgkmmoore
05-09-2010, 04:55 AM
All is well that ends well. The fact that the final bidder is bidding first time could very well be shaky. We may see the truck again on ebay. It is a rather awe inspiring number nevertheless.
The final answer for each of us is, would you want to drive it?
From what I have seen on the Forum, MOST seem to have a preference for the reverently unrestored honesty of these old trucks. Others have vast differences in their use preferences, therefore, condition image.
I would enjoin the others remarks above....would not mind a few small dings, and some oil displayed on the undercarriage, and signs of working for a living on the interior. I kinda like seeing paint worn off the top few inches of the gear lever, and pedals that show wear. I'd rather see a (your favorite beer)bottle opener on the exterior, rather than festering about 2 extra holes in the bodywork.
I am, though, of the age where I'd rather not polish stuff and toothbrush the vents any more. I still like 'clean', but would rather just powerwash the exterior paint, then open four doors and firehose it out. These trucks live for that kinda wash job.:D:thumb-up:

jgkmmoore
05-09-2010, 05:02 AM
I splurged.:o
Just this week I bought a new red knob, and a new yellow knob for the 109. The old ones were tired, and she needed some good color in the cab. She's still running perfectly, so that's it for the year for 'mad lust buys'.:D

Cross me fingers,
Jeff

TeriAnn
05-09-2010, 11:11 AM
I would like to get back to the point with this auction, and how this person was able to get that kind of money.

I must say that the person selling this truck presented it masterfully.



Yes. most people confuse style with substance and can often not readily see beyond the style. So yes if you want to get a good price for anything, presentation is critical. However, it is obvious that the truck has been completely gone through, given fresh paint, new seals & gaskets and evidently put into first class running condition. That adds a LOT to the value of a truck. Yes the person restoring the truck seemed either unclear or uninterested in the fine paint details such as not painting the master cylinder and getting engine paint colours incorrect. So what? It wouldn't bother most people. Professional Series restorations done by companies who know their Series trucks often sell for twice to three times the closing price of the ebay auction. The ebay truck is not perfect but people were willing to pay for the work & parts that went into the rebuild. Actually I suspect the seller was not getting minimum wage for the time spent on the project.




I agree with Thixon in that it is not top-notch. The galvy painted silver, the obnoxious oil-free underside, etc. Whoever did it, took great care to clean everything to excess, but I fear there is alot of "dressing up a pig" going on. Paint and degreaser can do wonders if someone is not afraid to apply a little effort and sweat.



Like some others who have posted on this list I do not feel good that so many of you feel a need to put down someone else's truck and automatically assume that the seller is trying to pull something over on bidders.

I didn't read that the galvanizing was painted silver. Did ANYONE ask the seller? I did see the typical galvanization pattern on the front bumper. I do know that a lot of people doing a rebuild on their trucks (at least on the West coast) remove the galvanized bits and have them regalvanized. And I do know there are products that clean up an oxidized galvanized surface to look shiny and new. Who can tell sliver paint from a fresh unoxidized galvanized surface from those pictures??

You need to have leaking seals and gaskets for a Land Rover to be considered to be in good shape?? How silly is that? Right now my front & rear diffs, swivels, gearbox and transfercase are not leaking at all. This is because the gaskets and seals are doing what they are supposed to be doing. I do have a little weeping from the engine if it makes you feel better.

Having a clean undercarriage on a truck that was just rebuilt is not automatically "dressing a pig" Why do you immediately assume the worse and put the truck & seller down with no real evidence?




Not that it is a bad Rover, by any means, and I would also like to say to anyone who will be angry with me for speaking negatively about it: I probably could not have done better. But I can respect the Concourse-grade of work that Jac04 does, and this certainly ain't it.

So a rebuild that is not concourse enough for your standards deserves to be derided and the rebuilder deserves to be cast as a less than honest villain?

Geesh guys there are a number of you who seem willing to stone the truck and tar and feather the seller just because it makes you feel good to put other's truck & efforts down. Just because the rebuild is not to concourse standards???? How silly is that? If you knew the truck well and personally knew the character of the seller, maybe you might have grounds for this. But I don't see any positive basis for these attacks. You guys are just being mean because it makes you feel good. It demeans anyone's efforts to rebuild their Series Land Rover but not to the point of being a serious concourse contender. And woe on the person who decides to sell their recently rebuilt truck for whatever reason.

kevkon
05-09-2010, 11:56 AM
Actually I suspect the seller was not getting minimum wage for the time spent on the project.


You're not kidding. That truck sold for half of what it would if it were done strictly as a profitable endeavor. Everyone should realize that the seller would have walked away with a higher profit if he had simply cleaned up the truck and sold it after he purchased it. There's obviously a lot of care and love that went into that restoration even if it doesn't meet everyone's standards.

Rineheitzgabot
05-09-2010, 01:29 PM
Yes. most people confuse style with substance and can often not readily see beyond the style. So yes if you want to get a good price for anything, presentation is critical. However, it is obvious that the truck has been completely gone through, given fresh paint, new seals & gaskets and evidently put into first class running condition. That adds a LOT to the value of a truck. Yes the person restoring the truck seemed either unclear or uninterested in the fine paint details such as not painting the master cylinder and getting engine paint colours incorrect. So what? It wouldn't bother most people. Professional Series restorations done by companies who know their Series trucks often sell for twice to three times the closing price of the ebay auction. The ebay truck is not perfect but people were willing to pay for the work & parts that went into the rebuild. Actually I suspect the seller was not getting minimum wage for the time spent on the project.




Like some others who have posted on this list I do not feel good that so many of you feel a need to put down someone else's truck and automatically assume that the seller is trying to pull something over on bidders.

I didn't read that the galvanizing was painted silver. Did ANYONE ask the seller? I did see the typical galvanization pattern on the front bumper. I do know that a lot of people doing a rebuild on their trucks (at least on the West coast) remove the galvanized bits and have them regalvanized. And I do know there are products that clean up an oxidized galvanized surface to look shiny and new. Who can tell sliver paint from a fresh unoxidized galvanized surface from those pictures??

You need to have leaking seals and gaskets for a Land Rover to be considered to be in good shape?? How silly is that? Right now my front & rear diffs, swivels, gearbox and transfercase are not leaking at all. This is because the gaskets and seals are doing what they are supposed to be doing. I do have a little weeping from the engine if it makes you feel better.

Having a clean undercarriage on a truck that was just rebuilt is not automatically "dressing a pig" Why do you immediately assume the worse and put the truck & seller down with no real evidence?




So a rebuild that is not concourse enough for your standards deserves to be derided and the rebuilder deserves to be cast as a less than honest villain?

Geesh guys there are a number of you who seem willing to stone the truck and tar and feather the seller just because it makes you feel good to put other's truck & efforts down. Just because the rebuild is not to concourse standards???? How silly is that? If you knew the truck well and personally knew the character of the seller, maybe you might have grounds for this. But I don't see any positive basis for these attacks. You guys are just being mean because it makes you feel good. It demeans anyone's efforts to rebuild their Series Land Rover but not to the point of being a serious concourse contender. And woe on the person who decides to sell their recently rebuilt truck for whatever reason.


Wow. I am sorry that I offended. Some of my words were a bit harsh (like the dressing up a pig reference), but I don't think you got my over all jist; and for that, I apologize since I didn't communicate it clearly.

My point is simply this: Would anyone on this forum pay that kind of money for that vehicle? I would say that the answer would be no, unanimously. Please let me know if you disagree.

The reason why this seller got so much for it, were for two reasons: 1) The buyer was possibly, or probably a first time Series owner, and 2) the presentation of the auction/restoration.

I disagree with you that I like criticizing others' trucks as a "stepping stone" for my own, petty, little, ego. In fact, I get no fun from that; I am interested in how a person gets so much money for an item on eBay that is not worth it. My truck is not near that nice, and have no problem admitting it. My ego is not wrapped up in material issues like this. I have my faults, but that is not one of them.

As I may have led you to believe, I don't think the truck is a pig. Again, my apologies. I also don't think the seller is a villain (did I really make it sound like this?) I did not think that Snidely Whiplash was brilliantly scheming each step of opening an auction on eBay, then laughing maniacally after pressing "enter". I simply think that they did a smashing-good job at presenting the auction. It did not look like a car dealer auction, and it didn't look like a hillbilly restoration shop auction; it was near perfect.

Again, I was interested in how a seller can get top notch money, for a very clean Series, of non-top-notch quality.

JimCT
05-09-2010, 02:22 PM
Why not ask how many people here have that much or more into their rovers already? Jim

kevkon
05-09-2010, 02:27 PM
I don't mean to get in the middle of this, but what's not top notch in the quality ( not accuracy) of that restoration? Don't you think there are more than a few on this forum who have spent that much and more on their trucks? I can think of two off hand that have got to be close to 30k and that's not considering what the owner's time is valued at.

Rineheitzgabot
05-09-2010, 07:14 PM
I'm sticking to my point:):

Who on here, would have paid $22k for that very nice, clean Series that this thread was started on?

Please respond. Think about it, and consider whether you would want to purchase one that someone else put $40k into, or purchase a cheaper-than $22k one, and put the extra money in, yourself.

TeriAnn
05-09-2010, 07:24 PM
Why not ask how many people here have that much or more into their rovers already? Jim

After 32 years and a lot of miles of ownership I think I've spent around $32K on my 1960 Dormobile. Maybe more since a couple months ago my truck got a new cam, new cylinder heads along with associated parts, new aluminum radiator, a gearbox swap with new clutch, a completely rebuilt transfercase, a new pinion bearing kit in the Salisbury and 2 new to the truck propshafts.

Hopefully ready for another 100K plus miles. I don't want to know my total expenditure cost. I think I would faint if I kept records. But you know I love my truck. I put lots of miles on it and it shows me new places and gives me new life experiences. I can't put a monetary value on what she gave back to me.

And I've seen really top concourse restored Series trucks sell for the $45K to $60K region. A vehicle is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Just don't poo poo a rig that is out of your cost range.

4flattires
05-09-2010, 07:31 PM
I'm done reading this thread.

SafeAirOne
05-09-2010, 09:45 PM
Suddenly this thread has become interestng to me...

TerriAnn kind of alluded to a point that I think almost ALL of us can relate to. I don't really think it would be unfair to say that each one of us has x many dollars we have devoted to our Rovers over time. I'll use myself as an example...

I bought my current 109 at the height of the market for $7000. I swapped out the dead 2.6P for a 2.5NAD for $3000. I put a bunch of other stuff into it over the years for about $2000+-. Now I'm overhauling the engine for about $1500. If I sold it today, would I be able to get the $13,500 I have into it? No way.

I doubt most of us will ever get back what we have in our rovers. Mine is a daily driver and somewhat frequent off-roader, so it looks well-used, but runs like a champ and is quite reliable.

If someone can take the time to make a Rover look (and pereform) really decently and can get top dollar for doing so, then RIGHT ON I say!

No matter what anyone thinks, each and every one or our Rovers are worth EXACTLY what someone is willing to pay for it, and NOT what we have invested in it.

Confession: I too have been guilty of...having fun...with Rovers on ebay...Ones that have many, many more gauges and controls than there could ever possibly be necessary Rover, and Rovers that are awash in non-skid paint. I wish their sellers well, but I admit that that our tastes are VERY different.

gudjeon
05-09-2010, 10:08 PM
If a Sillies 2 could go for that, I would like to know what my sillies 1 would go for. Not as pristine, but will take me anywhere at anytime in style.
:confused::confused::confused:

TJR
05-09-2010, 11:01 PM
So does ebay only make $100 or so off that 22K final bid price?

I'm rebuilding, not restoring my 88S3
I'm not too much different than many others here....and I've got 10K into it so far and still just have piles of parts and boxes of rusty greasy parts to clean.

Conservative estimates here...quicky summary

Vehicle purchase price (given to me from family)

Galv Frame and parabolics & OME shocks $3000
Engine rebuild and parts $3000
Body panels (2 doors, 2 rear door, door tops, troptop,D90 Bulkhead, rad support) $2000
gas tanks(2) $300
por 15 $100
PTO winch $700
rims and tires $800
Cyl. Head $600
RN MT Mansfiel heater & sliders
swivels, bearings, brake, M/C, Clutch Cyl. Slave cly.
new lower dash, New door mirrors, latchtes, RAI air cleaner, New Galvy body caps,new floor boards

plus all the nickle & dime stuff... $100's

Should I add tools and shop supplies?
Shop press, Engine hoist, sand blaster, hand tools, Mig welder, solvents, paints,,,,

And why its a rebuild not resto..
11 front drums, Silisbury rear axle, trop top. RM spings and door tops
dlx bonnet, GM alt. Non-factory engine block paint, custom hitch, will have radio.


How many hours... so far..? This is fun project that I can work on when I want to , not when I have too...
I'm cheap.. I'd never pay 22K (not that it's not worth it) but I'd say I can do it myself, but it will take me 10+ years.

My cheapest way out would have been to buy a used runnnig rig w/ dents etc.. and start driving it.. fix it as I go...


...Talbot

LaneRover
05-09-2010, 11:03 PM
I would argue that what you would pay for a Rover and how much you would put into a Rover are two very different things.

Rineheitzgabot
05-10-2010, 06:52 AM
I would argue that what you would pay for a Rover and how much you would put into a Rover are two very different things.

Brent; thank you. This is my point, exactly. Most of us don't have the cash flow to drop on something like that, given time (even 20 years), we could drop thousands upon thousands on a vehicle.

Teriann; you didn't answer my question about whether or not YOU would pay $22k for THAT Rover.

bmohan55
05-10-2010, 08:50 AM
I was told that when you buy your Series,the purchase price is only the first payment.

Maybe you could/should consider the price paid for that e-bay Series as a "balloon payment"

Wander
05-10-2010, 09:07 AM
Well this thread got a little heated. I hope the new owner of the IIa enjoys the purchase.

There is some mention of money spent, not spent. I think if that is your main concern then an old British truck is not a good idea. I may be one of the few but my IIa is a hobby and a way for me to de-stress from my job and also a personal reward. I don't play golf, my father does so I know how much that hobby can cost. His hobby allowed him to de-stress from a very stressful quality control-engineering career and we didn't go without so good for him to have worked that hard to afford it. My IIa doesn't cost anything near what golf does and I enjoy the wrenching and the reward of driving it. My family is not going without because of my IIa-if that ever becomes an issue the IIa will be for sale.

I know it can be fun to banter about but we should keep in mind the golden rule. This forum is too much fun to let people get angry about an e-bay ad.
Have a good week everyone!

kevkon
05-10-2010, 09:08 AM
If some owners really knew what they were in for, I suspect they would gladly shell out 22k! Seriously, I think it all comes down to what you enjoy most about owning a Series truck. I'm a mechanic and I enjoy working on a vehicle that meant a lot to me as a kid. There are others, however, who would probably be far better off buying a truck like the one on Ebay. Then there those who just enjoy off-roading and are not concerned at all with cosmetics. Whatever floats your boat. If I had the money and no mechanical skill, I'd certainly spend that amount for a completely restored Series. The only caveat would be that I would definately want to inspect it in person or have someone qualified to do so.

TeriAnn
05-10-2010, 09:54 AM
Teriann; you didn't answer my question about whether or not YOU would pay $22k for THAT Rover.

The answer to that is no. I wouldn't even pay $5.00 for THAT Rover or MOST ANY Rover unless for the sole reason of flipping it for a profit. Therefore I am NOT willing to pay anywhere near what I think the quick flip value of any Land Rover is.

I am not a Land Rover collector. I have had only one Land Rover for the past 32 years. I love my truck and plan to keep it for as long as I am able to drive, maybe longer. Not only do I have no desire to own another Land Rover I think it would unnecessarily complicate my life.

I'm the wrong person to ask that question to. I don't pay attention to Land Rover prices or even consider buying one. I take that back. I once wanted to buy an APGP Land Rover (prototype #6) but didn't have the money for it. Just as well because I don't have a use for it.

But if it is one thing I've learned from my $300 Series II 109 Land Rover (1978) and my $1000 Triumph TR3 (1986) is that it is always cheaper to buy the best condition vehicle you can afford than to buy a fixer upper and sink money into it bringing it up to snuff over time.

If you are asking me if I think THAT truck is worth what it sold for my answer would be ...

If a visual examination and test drive confirms it is in the condition presented in the sale and if the perspective buyer wanted a turn key very good condition, reliable Series Land Rover that looked nice in fresh paint, yes I think that kind a buyer would be much better off buying that truck for that amount of money than buying a runner that looks a bit ratty and may or may not have a tired drive train, suspension and /or steering. Some people have disposable income and want to start out with a nice looking reliable truck. Not everyone wants to start ownership out by increasing the mileage on their towing insurance.

Lalo88DK
05-10-2010, 02:37 PM
For me, one of the joys of owning a Land Rover is to restore it myself, then I sort of feel attached to it and of course know all its weaknesses too.
Something I also love, is to modify it, so it meets my requirements. I do not think I would pay that much for another mans dream, if you know what I mean.

Momo
05-10-2010, 02:53 PM
I used to think I would never spend that kind of money on a Series Land Rover. I have had my 1964 109 pickup for almost 15 years, and I rebuilt it myself. In the end I spent more than I would have if I'd just bought a turn-key restoration, and the truck is not a looker. It gets used hard and does not look "restored", it's got patina again, which is cool.

Anyway, getting back to my point. I used to think I would never spend big money on a Series Land Rover, until last year, when I bought my 109 Station Wagon. I decided it would be cheaper and certainly easier to buy a finished specimen. I want to enjoy the damn thing without all the cursing and bloody knuckles and late nights and waiting for parts shipments and all that crap. I consider it a bargain.

In the end, it's been very cool to buy a "new" 109 and campaign it without all the fuss. The thing had almost no miles on the restoration, which by the way was done to a very high standard. It's my dream truck. Meanwhile I have an 88 project in the garage that satisfies my need to tinker, and there's no pressure to finish it because I have two other Land Rovers I can drive any time I want.

Would I pay 22k for a basic 88 hardtop that has some nice work but is not really done "properly"? No. A better one will come along that's done right.
When you pay that much you have the right to be picky.

Les Parker
05-10-2010, 03:36 PM
Nice 109" Station Wagon.
Where did the roof rack and tent originate from?
The concrete looks as if quite a few Series Land Rovers have stopped by to view the pair of 109" 's

gudjeon
05-10-2010, 04:26 PM
To be able to drop that kind of cash at once would be nice - if you can do it. For me, the rebuilding a bit at a time and learning, swearing and toiling. This is what I do it for. It was great therapy for me to keep sane while getting over a bad attack of MS. Good physio therapy as well. Like was mentioned before, I am going to drive it until I can't drive no more, so pricing it is somewhat academic. :thumb-up:

mrdoiron
05-10-2010, 09:24 PM
good point Kevkon...

I must say however, there is a certain crack-addictive element to toiling over over one little upgrade at a time your self. I run factories in 4 countries, and get way more satisfaction out of things as simple as replacing the door hardward, locks, dash elements bit by bit, new brake shoes, new shocks, or even just replacing that missing vent knob...
Perhaps this guy saw one of your vehicles on this site, and just wanted to buy his way into the "look" out of appreciation... so you could also look as his purchase as a big compliment to other peoples hard work.
For 22K however, might have went for defender needing a little TLC myself!

Momo
05-10-2010, 09:56 PM
Nice 109" Station Wagon.
Where did the roof rack and tent originate from?
The concrete looks as if quite a few Series Land Rovers have stopped by to view the pair of 109" 's

Thanks Les. The tent is Camping Lab, the rack is a custom prototype of a design I'm working to bring to market.

Believe it or not that concrete is only a year old. With two Series Land Rovers and a Podocarpus tree out front that sheds thousands of inedible (but messy) fruits, it has taken a beating. I clean it often and try to catch the oil with drip pans but it's a battle.

TeriAnn
05-11-2010, 10:49 AM
For me, the rebuilding a bit at a time and learning, swearing and toiling. This is what I do it for.

I think that's why at least 90% of the people on this list really prefer their Series trucks, or for that matter prefer to spend their spare cash and time lovingly bringing a classic car back to life. A clapped out classic car that someone wants to bring back to its glory years is the substance of endless dreams.

But I'm here for a different reason. I love driving my Dormobile and my TR3 but I do not like working on them. I love their uniqueness, their primitive existence in a world of microprocessor everything controlled, driver pampering disposable cars. I love the way a TR3 feels as you dive deep into the curves, brake at the last moment and power out. yes 2010 suspensions are better than early post WWII designs but so what? I love exploring new places in the camping comfort of my Dormobile. Seeing places where new SUVs couldn't take me.

To me doing the mechanical maintenance and repairs is an unfavored chore that I do reluctantly. I work on my 2 vehicles for 3 reasons:

1. I almost never can afford to pay someone else to do the work and there are very few mechanics working today who are competent to work on them.

2. I work on my truck so I know how to do trail repairs and not be stranded

3. So I can get the vehicle back into driving condition so I can have fun with my vehicle again.

Besides, there is something not quite right about going out for the night dressed and made up to my best but with broken nails, a missed grease spot on the back of my upper arm and the scent of GOJO below the gardenia perfume. It is just not quite the feminine image I want to project when I'm going out

I'm a driver by choice and a mechanic by reluctant necessity. This different viewpoint sometimes put my postings at odds with many of the mechanics by choice, but I think we usually find common ground in the technical details.

I'm a total nerd when it comes to technical details, but when you guys ask me about how I feel about something please do not take offense if I disagree from the normal "loves to work on cars" viewpoint.