1969 IIA cracked master cylinder reservoir

[drbrain]

Hello all,

New to the forum and I have to say there is a wealth of information here. I am looking at buying a 1969 IIA and overall the vehicle is in good shape and has had a lot of work done. The one problem I found is a cracked reservoir on the master cylinder. It looks like the previous owner added a servo booster so the unit is probably not original. The cylinder feeds both the brakes and the clutch and has the reservoir built onto the top. I have been told it is no longer available and that you can use one for an MGB/C from Moss motors. When I called Moss they didn't know which model to sell me. There are two they have.

180-725 and 180-766 on the moss site.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I proceed on this?

Thanks

Harry

[crankin]

I would like to see a picture of this setup. Certainly sounds interesting...

[drbrain]

Clint,

Don't have the vehicle yet. Forgot to take a pic. We are making the decision tomorrow if we are buying it or not. I hope I am referring to the servo booster properly. It is a large approx. 10" around by about 6" deep tank with the Master cylinder bolted onto it.

Thanks

Harry


I would like to see a picture of this setup. Certainly sounds interesting...

[scott]

a cylinder doesn't serve bot brakes & clutch but a resivoir can. and a resevoir is just that, a can. older series have a bean can that has two lines coming out of it, one feeds the brake mc and the other feed the clutch mc. the can has a can inside it that will allow one to fail without affecting the other. these bean cans can still be found and mounted almost anywhere so that gravity feeds the mcs. you'll need the fittings and some pipe to connect the can to your clutch mc and brake mc

[drbrain]

Scott,

Here is a link to the MG part. It looks like this but with a larger reservoir. Does this make any sense?
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=92783


a cylinder doesn't serve bot brakes & clutch but a resivoir can. and a resevoir is just that, a can. older series have a bean can that has two lines coming out of it, one feeds the brake mc and the other feed the clutch mc. the can has a can inside it that will allow one to fail without affecting the other. these bean cans can still be found and mounted almost anywhere so that gravity feeds the mcs. you'll need the fittings and some pipe to connect the can to your clutch mc and brake mc

[scott]

Scott,

Here is a link to the MG part. It looks like this but with a larger reservoir. Does this make any sense?
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=92783

yes, that'a a dual system brake mc. the two ports you see on the side feed the front brakes and the rear brakes. typpically this is done because the front wheel cylinders need a different volume of fluid than the rear. series iia didn't have boosters so some folks have fitted their trucks with boosted mc from othe vehicles. some one here will correct me if i'm wrong , just got my 1st 109 recently, but 109s have dual brake mc cuz the front have 2 wheel cylinders per wheel and the rear one. that mg brake mc probably served disc in the front, shoes in the rear so it too needed the dual mc. you should be able to remove the plastic cracked resi from the mc and replace it with a pipe going to a bean can. i am uncomfortable with advising you on what to replace that mc with. me i would scrap the booster and go back to a lr dual brake mc. or ask the series iii folks, i think they may have come with boosted dual mc

[drbrain]

Thanks Scott. I think I have solved it with a Part from Rovers north for a III series. Will hopefully know soon.



yes, that'a a dual system brake mc. the two ports you see on the side feed the front brakes and the rear brakes. typpically this is done because the front wheel cylinders need a different volume of fluid than the rear. series iia didn't have boosters so some folks have fitted their trucks with boosted mc from othe vehicles. some one here will correct me if i'm wrong , just got my 1st 109 recently, but 109s have dual brake mc cuz the front have 2 wheel cylinders per wheel and the rear one. that mg brake mc probably served disc in the front, shoes in the rear so it too needed the dual mc. you should be able to remove the plastic cracked resi from the mc and replace it with a pipe going to a bean can. i am uncomfortable with advising you on what to replace that mc with. me i would scrap the booster and go back to a lr dual brake mc. or ask the series iii folks, i think they may have come with boosted dual mc

[crankin]

Yes, Us III folks have dual MC (master cylinder) and servos. The MC for a 109 and 88 are different. The 109's MCs push out a lot more power and are not suggested to be put on an 88.

Also, I am not sure if the parts on THIS IIa are Land Rover or aftermarket without seeing it. I would hate to suggest getting anythign new without fully seeing it.

But to be honest with you, Harry, the MC and all the fixings can be corrected/fixed for a few hundred bucks. So, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

You want to focus on the big bits like the firewall (bulkhead) and frame.
Make sure that these guys are not rusted out and look good. These can be a few thousand dollars to fix. Trust me...I would much rather have a busted up MC to fix then the frame and bulkhead.

I would dare say that 80% of us wish that our present self could go back in time a say "There is one better with less things to fix out there."

[drbrain]

Thanks Clint.
We put it up on a lift today and went over the entire vehicle. The frame and the firewall are sound. Many upgrades as well.
Is the recommendation to keep the booster on and work with it or to take it back to original?


Yes, Us III folks have dual MC (master cylinder) and servos. The MC for a 109 and 88 are different. The 109's MCs push out a lot more power and are not suggested to be put on an 88.

Also, I am not sure if the parts on THIS IIa are Land Rover or aftermarket without seeing it. I would hate to suggest getting anythign new without fully seeing it.

But to be honest with you, Harry, the MC and all the fixings can be corrected/fixed for a few hundred bucks. So, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

You want to focus on the big bits like the firewall (bulkhead) and frame.
Make sure that these guys are not rusted out and look good. These can be a few thousand dollars to fix. Trust me...I would much rather have a busted up MC to fix then the frame and bulkhead.

I would dare say that 80% of us wish that our present self could go back in time a say "There is one better with less things to fix out there."

[scott]

i don't think it much matters what that booster came off of. if your soon to be your iia is an 88 or a 109 just make sure the brake mc is a series iii 88 or 109 and a lr servo will fit and maybe the other servo will fit. i just can't help thinking that the lr mc should be paired with lr wheel cylinders.

[crankin]

That depends on you. Do you want to take it back and do an original restoration? If so remove it and go back stock. But you will probably come out cheaper to keep it the way it is and just replace the broken bits….also, the servo will give you a little more breaking power. I would keep the servo..it’s a common upgrade.

Is it holding fluid at all or does it just leak all out? Are the breaks working? Before I placed an order for a new reservoir, I would try to see if the MC is good…because if you purchase a new MC more than likely it will have the reservoir with it. But honestly before I placed an order for anything…I would take it home and give it a good comb over. There is nothing more frustrating to place an order for something that you think will fix the problem and then having to place another order for something else. $10-$20 for shipping can start to add up. If its drivable…enjoy it for a bit before you break into it.

We will be more than happy to help you out with any questions that you have on your purchase. We all want to make sure that you are getting your money’s worth. If you are wondering if the price is right for this particular rig and if it will be a money pit…we will offer our two cents. No one here is going to slip up behind you and purchase the vehicle (right guys!!?). When you buy a rover you buy into a family…and more than likely someone will know this vehicle and the woes the previous owner might have had…if they had any.

[drbrain]

Thanks again Clint.

The MC and braking work great. There are actual cracks in the plastic of the reservoir itself. The problem is the reservoir is mounted to it and not the remote one, I can't buy it separately, unless I am confusing a reservoir and valve assembly with the MC.

Here is a link to what the part pretty much looks like on the IIa.

http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-4771-master-cyl-109-dual-pwr-series-iiaiii.aspx

The deal is $7500. The body panels are fine. It is a hard top and has a good coat of paint. There are replacement drivers and passengers footwell panels. The frame has only one problem at the back bumper that is about 4" of rust. My car restoration guy who checked the car out for me said the frame and body are really good and he saw no major issues, the frame rust can be easily and inexpensively repaired. No major leaks and engine seems very powerful. The previous owner spent about $7500 on repairs and upgrades including:
-New radiator for a III upgrade
-New brake booster, brake drums and other brake parts
-new suspension - shocks, springs and mounts
-rebuilt alternator and bracket
-new belt
-new carburetor
-wiring all checked, repaired and some replaced
-all lights and signals fixed and working
-replaced speedometer, have old one that has 83,000 on it. New one has about 10,000
-new clutch assembly

There is much more but I don't have the paperwork with me. It was about $4000 in labor and the rest in parts.

The problems other then the brake reservoir are:

-Heating system is missing all interior de-misters, grates, and all associated parts. All that is there are the hoses. Also Heater blower does not currently come on and work.
- doors close but the hinges need adjustment as they are not aligned or need parts
- there was some water below a mat in the footwell of the passenger side. Can't figure out where that came from.

All I can remember as of now. Has does it sound?

Thanks in advance for the advice. Trying to close the deal tomorrow if it makes sense.

Harry

[bmohan55]

... there was some water below a mat in the footwell of the passenger side. Can't figure out where that came from...

Not being an a$$ but it came from outside...they ALL leak! Check the seal between the windscreen and roof, mine was rotted but a quick bead of silicone substantially reduced the amount of water cascading in and working it's way down behind the dash and onto the floor.

Really, it sounds like a very good start to me...wish mine had that much attention given to it before we met.

[NickDawson]

Folks around here will tell you, I'm learning as I go ... from the very beginning. So please do not consider this advice, but simply an anecdote.

One of the first things to totally fail on my 1973 series III 88 UK import was the MC. What a strange setup: The PO replaced the diesel motor with a rare'ish 2.5 L petrol...and the front axle with a 109 axle...but the booster and MC were still setup for a single line.

Once the MC failed, I swapped out to a dual MC and shortly after the booster failed...and is still not working, but the truck stops fine and passes Virginia inspection.

My point being, the replacement dual MC with attached reservoir is a relatively inexpensive fix; if the servo has failed, that might be able to wait (remember, not advice, just what I'm observing with my truck).

Sounds like a fine truck - double check that rust on the rear cross member with hammer and screwdriver and POST SOME PICS!

[drbrain]

Cute : > I will check the area above the leak. Thanks for the advice.

Harry


... there was some water below a mat in the footwell of the passenger side. Can't figure out where that came from...

Not being an a$$ but it came from outside...they ALL leak! Check the seal between the windscreen and roof, mine was rotted but a quick bead of silicone substantially reduced the amount of water cascading in and working it's way down behind the dash and onto the floor.

Really, it sounds like a very good start to me...wish mine had that much attention given to it before we met.

[drbrain]

Seems like the booster is still working. I will replace the MC and go from there. Hopefully I will close the deal tomorrow and have pics soon.

Thanks
Harry


Folks around here will tell you, I'm learning as I go ... from the very beginning. So please do not consider this advice, but simply an anecdote.

One of the first things to totally fail on my 1973 series III 88 UK import was the MC. What a strange setup: The PO replaced the diesel motor with a rare'ish 2.5 L petrol...and the front axle with a 109 axle...but the booster and MC were still setup for a single line.

Once the MC failed, I swapped out to a dual MC and shortly after the booster failed...and is still not working, but the truck stops fine and passes Virginia inspection.

My point being, the replacement dual MC with attached reservoir is a relatively inexpensive fix; if the servo has failed, that might be able to wait (remember, not advice, just what I'm observing with my truck).

Sounds like a fine truck - double check that rust on the rear cross member with hammer and screwdriver and POST SOME PICS!

[4flattires]

There seems to be some confusion on the servo here.

Your vehicle would have come equipped with a brake booster from the factory. The repair (and pics) of it is covered in the big green book, it has been discussed in the forum, and I have one on my 69 IIa as well.

:thumb-up:

[drbrain]

I took some pics of the brake area today and the engine compartment in general. I will try to get them up so we can see what is on there.

Thanks
Harry


There seems to be some confusion on the servo here.

Your vehicle would have come equipped with a brake booster from the factory. The repair (and pics) of it is covered in the big green book, it has been discussed in the forum, and I have one on my 69 IIa as well.

:thumb-up:

[4flattires]

..and a pic to boot! Scroll down to post 14.

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8727&page=2