SERIES 3 Originality Question

[Bertha]

I am redoing a series 3 88 and my OCD has got the better of me. I was wondering if anyone knows if the rivets in the rear quarter panels that held the braces for the seat belts were painted originally or left bare. Checking the 2 parts trucks I have, I was unable to tell as they have been painted over a few times.

[crankin]

I am redoing a series 3 88 and my OCD has got the better of me. I was wondering if anyone knows if the rivets in the rear quarter panels that held the braces for the seat belts were painted originally or left bare. Checking the 2 parts trucks I have, I was unable to tell as they have been painted over a few times.

As best I can gather they were not painted. I remember talking to a guy who worked for a LR dealership back in the day and he can almost swears that the "rivets" rusted while on the dealership lot.

By the way....they are not rivets....they are lockbolts.
http://www.afshuck.net/uploads/image/lockbolt_properties.gif
http://www.afshuck.net/uploads/image/LOCKBOLT-INSTALL-SEQ.gif
1. Pin placed into prepared hole - Collar placed over pin
2. Tool is placed over the fastener pintail and activated


Pin head pulled against material
Anvil pushes collar against joint
Initial clamp generated
3. Tool swages collar, increasing clamp
4. Pintail breaks, installation complete


NOW the bad news...The tool that is placed over the pintail is very expensive to buy. I tried and tried to find someone that had one and just couldn't find anyone. Maybe you will have better luck.

What I ended up doing was finding some screws that had the same shape and form and attached them with nuts on the back. I filled in the screw head with body filler and painted over them.

[Bertha]

Clint
Thanks for the help. I used the word rivet because I didn't know what they were called so thanks for the great info. What really confused me is that I knew they were metal so I thought that they were painted, however on one of my parts I can see the rust drips from them on the side of the quaters, which supports what you are saying. My plan is to use round head aluminum rivets in their place as they are visually similar and won't rust. I have already removed the seatbelt brackets. Now I have to decide whether to paint them or not. BTW what about the 3 round head rivets that go along the back of the truck on each end panel-were those painted or left bare?

[mrdoiron]

Clint
Thanks for the help. I used the word rivet because I didn't know what they were called so thanks for the great info. What really confused me is that I knew they were metal so I thought that they were painted, however on one of my parts I can see the rust drips from them on the side of the quaters, which supports what you are saying. My plan is to use round head aluminum rivets in their place as they are visually similar and won't rust. I have already removed the seatbelt brackets. Now I have to decide whether to paint them or not. BTW what about the 3 round head rivets that go along the back of the truck on each end panel-were those painted or left bare?
can you post pics of what you are referencing ?

[SafeAirOne]

NOW the bad news...The tool that is placed over the pintail is very expensive to buy. I tried and tried to find someone that had one and just couldn't find anyone. Maybe you will have better luck.


You're not kidding about the tool being expensive! Go down to the airport and look for an aircraft mechanic. Preferably one that works on airliners. He'll probably have access to one.

[crankin]

can you post pics of what you are referencing ?

mrdoiron,
I'll look through my resto pics tonight and see if I can find one. However, just make sure that no one panics too much thinking that you are missing something. These brackets are NLA and only had a short run of production on the North American Series III.

Trust me you would know if you had these guys. The rust and corrosion around the supports are easy to spot.

[crankin]

BTW what about the 3 round head rivets that go along the back of the truck on each end panel-were those painted or left bare?

This is only a guess as well...but I believe that they were left bare, too. I would think that they would install them all at the same time. If i remember correctly, there are three sets...they first set is three lockbolts, then four lockbolts and then seven (towards the rear) lockbolts.

The last set of seven lockbolts...the top three are attached to the tub and seatbox...just like the back three. So, you should have a total of six lockbolts (on each side) attaching the rear seatbox to the tub. On mine, I replaced these six lockbolts, added back the three supports and welded up the corrosion. I’ll also snap some shots of this later on.

[Bertha]

This is only a guess as well...but I believe that they were left bare, too. I would think that they would install them all at the same time. If i remember correctly, there are three sets...they first set is three lockbolts, then four lockbolts and then seven (towards the rear) lockbolts.

The last set of seven lockbolts...the top three are attached to the tub and seatbox...just like the back three. So, you should have a total of six lockbolts (on each side) attaching the rear seatbox to the tub. On mine, I replaced these six lockbolts, added back the three supports and welded up the corrosion. I’ll also snap some shots of this later on.

No, the last 6 I am referencing are on the rear body panels (the panels where the tail lamps are mounted) There are 3 round head rivets on each side(actual rivets not the steel ones). They seem to just attach the rear body panel to the inner part of the body, however they are not on a 2 or 2a, only on a S3

[kevkon]

On my SIII they are bare. The only rivets with paint are those attaching the quarter panels to the wheel (seat) wells.

[crankin]

No, the last 6 I am referencing are on the rear body panels (the panels where the tail lamps are mounted) There are 3 round head rivets on each side(actual rivets not the steel ones). They seem to just attach the rear body panel to the inner part of the body, however they are not on a 2 or 2a, only on a S3


Alright Bertha here is what mine looked like:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_dcAzqvv_A6U/SotpZ6DeQ_I/AAAAAAAAAbA/Ome1k986M38/s640/DSC03970.JPG

Three under the LR emblem are lockbolts...attached to the tub

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dcAzqvv_A6U/Sotpa4OzBYI/AAAAAAAAAbE/E2AcqbZz1Tg/s800/DSC03971.JPG

Top three...also lockbolts attached to tub.

(i began to strip this so the paint on the middle lockbolt is from that)

[TJR]

On my SIII they are bare. The only rivets with paint are those attaching the quarter panels to the wheel (seat) wells.

My '73 NAS 88 seems to have been painted ? ...Talbot

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/88seriesiii/EB_LR/Rear_Tub/DSC04851.jpg
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/88seriesiii/EB_LR/Rear_Tub/DSC04854.jpg
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/88seriesiii/EB_LR/Rear_Tub/DSC04855.jpg
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/88seriesiii/EB_LR/Rear_Tub/DSC04893.jpg
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/88seriesiii/EB_LR/Rear_Tub/DSC04850.jpg
http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/ac151/88seriesiii/EB_LR/Rear_Tub/DSC04859.jpg

[crankin]

TJR,
I am not sure about yours...but I do know that were you have pop rivets (blind rivets)...you should have hammer rivets. So, yours might have been painted over when the galvanized trim pieces were removed and refitted.

Unless, you did those yourself...then everything i said is out the window...or unless things changed between 72 and 73

And I am not even saying that they are supposed to be painted or unpainted. I am going on the stories of an old man!

[Bertha]

Alright Bertha here is what mine looked like:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_dcAzqvv_A6U/SotpZ6DeQ_I/AAAAAAAAAbA/Ome1k986M38/s640/DSC03970.JPG

Three under the LR emblem are lockbolts...attached to the tub

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_dcAzqvv_A6U/Sotpa4OzBYI/AAAAAAAAAbE/E2AcqbZz1Tg/s800/DSC03971.JPG

Top three...also lockbolts attached to tub.

(i began to strip this so the paint on the middle lockbolt is from that)

Clint
Very interesting so the rear got lock bolts as well-thanks for the pic reference

[Bertha]

TJR,
I am not sure about yours...but I do know that were you have pop rivets (blind rivets)...you should have hammer rivets. So, yours might have been painted over when the galvanized trim pieces were removed and refitted.

Unless, you did those yourself...then everything i said is out the window...or unless things changed between 72 and 73

And I am not even saying that they are supposed to be painted or unpainted. I am going on the stories of an old man!

I can clear up some confusion about that. Of the 3 series 3's I have 2 are pre 73 and 1 is a mid 73. The pre 73 trucks have the hammer rivets, however the mid 73 that I am working on right now has the pop rivets. Since this is a fairly original truck, I think it is a safe assumption that there was a change over somewhere in 73. Thanks for all the help Clint and Talbot.

[TJR]

Nope.. All the Galv trim parts and rivets are original, never removed (yet), nothing ever repainted. The good news for me is I can still be orignal w/ the easier to install rivets.

Here's a prior thread where this was sort of discussed earlier.. Talbot

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3970

[kevkon]

I have to clarify as I was not sure what rivets were being addressed. All exterior rivets in the paint field are painted. The interior rivets are bare.

[Bertha]

Nope.. All the Galv trim parts and rivets are original, never removed (yet), nothing ever repainted. The good news for me is I can still be orignal w/ the easier to install rivets.

Here's a prior thread where this was sort of discussed earlier.. Talbot

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3970

Yes, based on your pics I do believe your truck is in its original form so I agree with what you are saying. Here is another question, the lock bolts seem to be painted on the outside of your truck however on the inside photos of the previous thread, they are bare. I would have to think they installed them after they painted the body however I cant figure out why they would be painted on the outside so........I came up with a theory-the lock bolts were probably made with some type of plating which quickly wore off creating a rust situation, hence making an original owner who actually cared about his truck touch them up with the coorect color paint, to slow down the corrosion- This is purely a guess and I am actually laughing while writing this as at the end of the day, Rover could give a crap about consistency in production, so I can't figure out why I care so much about these annoying little details- LOL
Thanks for all the helpful input Talbot