Safe Towing Capacity

[amcordo]

Hi!

So I need some guestimates... I've got my truck that has an alright frame (alright meaning some small holes in a few spots that I'm going to weld up, but otherwise the frame passes the hammer test). I've got an original transmission, so ignore the fact that I've got a more powerful motor - the power it has is limited by the capacity of the transmission which was just strong enough for the original engine.

What's a reasonable expectation for towing a boat? I need to find a matching boat for it and don't want to get carried away...

[LR Max]

I used to tow a Nissan 240sx on a full trailer. Towed a Honda CRX and RX-7 with a tow dolly on a regular basis for a while.

My 109 has a healthy 2.25 gasser. I was fine as long as I had plenty of braking room and wasn't expecting to go above 50 mph. But then again my towing was around town.

Oh, make sure your parking brake is in REALLY good condition :thumb-up:. TRUST ME on that.

[amcordo]

I used to tow a Nissan 240sx on a full trailer. Towed a Honda CRX and RX-7 with a tow dolly on a regular basis for a while.

My 109 has a healthy 2.25 gasser. I was fine as long as I had plenty of braking room and wasn't expecting to go above 50 mph. But then again my towing was around town.

Oh, make sure your parking brake is in REALLY good condition :thumb-up:. TRUST ME on that.


Yeah my parking break doesn't work.

[Wander]

Don't forget to factor tongue wieght and it's effect on the rear springs. You should be fine as the springs are stiff but if they are worn or damaged and you have a heavy tongue weight that will cause a bad sag on the rear. What type of boat do you have in mind? Unless you are looking for something large or a sailboat with a heavy keel you will be well under 5K in weight and mostly likely under 3500lb which should be a problem to tow-but stopping it might be a bigger issue. Something in the 18 foot center console or 20 foot or less family runabout should be pretty easy to trailer. I would suggest a classic Boston Whaler Montauk, that would look just right behind the Landy!

You should add a tranny cooler if you will be towing any distance. Not to be a spoiler but if the water isn't very close by your boat won't see much use and you'll have more problems with it. I used to have a nice old sailboat on a lake in SC. It was about 40min from my house which doens't sound like much but in reality it meant you needed a full day to go out and those free full days where few and far between so it mostly floated on it's mooring. I sold it 2 years later and since it was an old sailboat it was cheap to buy and cheap to keep, I sold it for what I paid for it so no loss. Power boats are a different matter-those engines are expensive and unless they are used often, they can be trouble. I do miss my boat sometimes but unless I get lucky and can find a place on the water so my boat is on my dock and easy to get to, I won't get another.

[printjunky]

+1 on the Montauk. or any of the variants. (aunder 2,000 lbs fully loaded)

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/16-17/models.html

Or for bluewater, switch up to the Outrage, which will put you, fully loaded, a little over 3,000 lbs, I'd guess.

[scott]

not that the military entities are exempt from having stupid systems... but a sankey wide track wieghs 1100 lbs and has a capacity to carry 1500 for a total of 2600 lbs and these were drug around with 109s w/ 2.25s. now the sanks do have inertia brakes so don't get a boat & trailer near 2600 lbs without some kind of additional breaking system

[NickDawson]

Have had no problems towing a 19 foot "bay runner" boat with my 88. Tranny gets hot, so make sure its got plenty of clean oil in it.

Braking distances are exaggerated as is acceleration. I ended up on a very steep city street, on a hill at the top of a red light. Some bozo pulled up right behind my boat... needless to say that was an tricky start involving the e-brake and some quick foot work.

I had it on the highway around 55mph, and wouldn't want to do that for too long

[LR Max]

You should add a tranny cooler if you will be towing any distance.

My Transmission always seems hot. How does one put a cooler on a manual transmission? I've never seen one. If you have, please elaborate!

[Wander]

My Transmission always seems hot. How does one put a cooler on a manual transmission? I've never seen one. If you have, please elaborate!


Ah...sorry I was thinking about towing my old boat-which I did with a HD Silverado that had an auto tranny. In theory the gear oil in an manual tranny should prevent the need for a aux cooler and air cooling should be enough to keep it in a good operating range. The only way to set up a cooler on a manual is to run plumbing with a pump to and from the tranny through the cooler and you would have to use much lighter oil so that it would flow freely. Race cars use this type system but they also see MUCH higher speeds. Now that I'm awake, you shouldn't need a aux cooler in a manual tranny even if your towing a boat that isn't too heavy for your set up. If your tranny is running hot you might want to check to see if you have a lot of mud/gunk on it (it used surface area for air cooling which is why there are fins along the side) and/or change the gear oil.

Hey Nick, I think I would have told the guy to go around in that situation-good job not putting a prop blade in his radiator!

[NickDawson]

My Transmission always seems hot. How does one put a cooler on a manual transmission? I've never seen one. If you have, please elaborate!

Now I'm tempted to build a dry ice cooler for long hauls...
It would have the added benefit of disguising the smoke that already comes out of the truck :D

[LR Max]

Nick,

Ok. I'm on the same page as you. My Chebby 1/2 ton has a trans cooler, better believe it!!

I bet if I wrapped the exhaust some more, past the drivers seat would help with heat. Its hard to dissipate heat in an area that is already hot.

[amcordo]

You should add a tranny cooler if you will be towing any distance. Not to be a spoiler but if the water isn't very close by your boat won't see much use and you'll have more problems with it. I used to have a nice old sailboat on a lake in SC. It was about 40min from my house which doens't sound like much but in reality it meant you needed a full day to go out and those free full days where few and far between so it mostly floated on it's mooring. I sold it 2 years later and since it was an old sailboat it was cheap to buy and cheap to keep, I sold it for what I paid for it so no loss. Power boats are a different matter-those engines are expensive and unless they are used often, they can be trouble. I do miss my boat sometimes but unless I get lucky and can find a place on the water so my boat is on my dock and easy to get to, I won't get another.


This was very insightful. I told my GF I want a boat. She's not amused - she knows how much time I spend on the rover and doesn't want to lose me to a third love.

Maybe I'm rethinking this, though; I'm about 40 minutes from the water.

[amcordo]

+1 on the Montauk. or any of the variants. (aunder 2,000 lbs fully loaded)

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/16-17/models.html (http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/16-17/models.html)

Or for bluewater, switch up to the Outrage, which will put you, fully loaded, a little over 3,000 lbs, I'd guess.


Something in the 18 foot center console or 20 foot or less family runabout should be pretty easy to trailer. I would suggest a classic Boston Whaler Montauk, that would look just right behind the Landy!

Awesome suggestions! I like the look!

[Wander]

Not to spoil your enthusiasm Tony but the old saying that to the two best days of boat ownership are when you buy and when you sell it isn't just a joke.

I am a major boat fan-love nothing more than being on the water but if it something that has a reoccuring cost it can kill the fun pretty quick. Something like an small center console is great because it lives on a trailer, not at a dock so there isn't a monthly fee to park it but you have to use it often, boats don't like being dry and those outboards need to run. A Whaler is a classic and has some of the prettiest lines, becareful about what you buy and be sure to take a boating safety course if/when you do find one. Others with the look of a Whaler and similar build quality, but a little better price; Wahoo, McKee Craft, Dusky, Scout

[yorker]

My Transmission always seems hot. How does one put a cooler on a manual transmission? I've never seen one. If you have, please elaborate!


Ha! :thumb-up:

The military Land Rovers 110 etc withthe R380 have a tranny cooler IIRC but that doesn't help us here does it?

With these things what you can tow and what you should tow are ofetn very different things, I've seen some people tow some really stupid stuff with their LRs over the years. :eek:

THis topic always makes for fun reading on the UK boards:
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f6/towing-capacity-series-3-a-87728.html

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/131746-Landrover-109-towing-weight

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/120725-Legal-Towing-Capacity-Of-A-S11a-S-w-b

http://ollr.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=196846&sid=7c677dc719b2653e2af15780544f3eee

[Wander]

This topic reminds me of the old popular mechanics tests linked in another thread. A series River was bought to move one or two empty rail cars around a port facility. The forman was upset because the clutch was gone in a month and then found out there was a unspoken competition going one to see just how many cars the Rover could move-empty and loaded. I believe the "winner" moved 4 empties and one loaded-together at one time. As much as I love my rover, I could not recommend it for towing a boat on the road. Moving boats around a boat yard it would be great, but on the road the added weight would only slow it down further making that 40 min trip to the boat launch(without boat)take an hour or more.

[yorker]

This topic reminds me of the old popular mechanics tests linked in another thread. A series River was bought to move one or two empty rail cars around a port facility. The forman was upset because the clutch was gone in a month and then found out there was a unspoken competition going one to see just how many cars the Rover could move-empty and loaded. I believe the "winner" moved 4 empties and one loaded-together at one time. As much as I love my rover, I could not recommend it for towing a boat on the road. Moving boats around a boat yard it would be great, but on the road the added weight would only slow it down further making that 40 min trip to the boat launch(without boat)take an hour or more.


amcordo has a V8 though.

Still though that will be that much more stress on the Series tranny- V8 torqu+ additional towed weight= exposed weak link(s) pretty quick. :thumb-up:

[martindktm]

If I was going to make a manual trans cooler I would use a power steering pump and a engine oil cooler. Would be a nice set-up.

I read those popular mecanics too and they said the rover had move 150 ton of rail car....But 150T on tracks does not required 150T pulling power...

[Wander]

Yeah it's different when it's on wheels, you just have to get it going. I sure would hate to have been that guy in the Rover when it came time to try to stop it!

[yorker]

A lot of people have noted that the Series tranny/transfer case gets really hot but do we have any data on how hot? I've often wondered about that. They could seem plenty hot but still be well within safe design parameters.

[Wander]

A lot of people have noted that the Series tranny/transfer case gets really hot but do we have any data on how hot? I've often wondered about that. They could seem plenty hot but still be well within safe design parameters.

Good point-with out a trans temp gauge it is pretty difficult to say if it is too hot or is it just the total lack of insulation between the tranny and the driver that makes us more aware of the heat. I'm still new to series Rovers but I don't recall reading about tranny's overheating being a specific problem. Now this is in relation to towing a boat and maybe even more so about handling the extra torque of a V8 AND the extra strain of towing a boat All of the boats that Tony has mentioned being interested in are small and pretty light weight-these are boats that can be towed by a small car so I don't see it being a problem if he stays under 3K lbs.

[JimCT]

The oil coolers in tow packages are usually for automatic transmissions, they are constantly slipping and creating heat. With a manual and good synthetic gear oil I doubt it would be a problem. Two different beasts.

[yorker]

R380 cooler info just for the heck of it:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88381

http://www.ashcrofttransmissions.co.uk/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=156

(R380's have an internal pump)

[amcordo]

I rode the wave of wanting a boat and lasted through it (thankfully) without buying one.

That's how I got the rover. One day I woke up and thought I'm just going to see how much they cost. Then I blacked out. When I woke up I was on a Southwest 737 on my way to Maryland with a check in my hand.

I remember the guy I bought it off of went for a drive with me in it down the street. When we came back to his hanger he looked at me and said "so you still interested in it?" When I said yes he had kind of a shifty look in his eyes. Like he knew the crap I was getting into but didn't want to warn me for fear I'd turn back.

A year later the only phrase he said to me that really stuck: "Be careful of upgrading or fixing things on it. It has a tendency to drain your wallet before you even know it."

[amcordo]

PS: a cheap trick to keep the transmission cool is to power wash it thoroughly, regularly. The metal on the transmission is a fantastic heat sink - but heat sinks don't work if they're covered in an insulator (like dirt stuck to old oil).

[LR Max]

PS: a cheap trick to keep the transmission cool is to power wash it thoroughly, regularly. The metal on the transmission is a fantastic heat sink - but heat sinks don't work if they're covered in an insulator (like dirt stuck to old oil).

Yeah, everything under my rover is covered in oil/mud. Will be working on that soon though.

[yorker]

It would be pretty easy to add extra oil capacity to the transfer case- there is a company in Spain or Italy that makes an extended sump for the LT-230 the same could be done to the Series T case. I've often thought about doiing it but in the end I am not convinced there is a problem there- I've never had the oil break down with the stock setup. Sure the tranny and transfer case get hot but they do in other vehicles too. Without any real data on actual temps in them or evidence that it is a problem it would at best be another overkill-belts and suspenders type modification.

[Tim Smith]

My lightweight can pull this 25' MacGregor without any trouble. Even had it on the highway and although you have to plan ahead for braking and acceleration, it's not that bad to drive.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Mw8MF8Gu0DU/RZ7FZAIJIuI/AAAAAAAAAqU/3gfE5esrT8w/s144/DSC00227.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qG9PP299Y-JbA9XwJqMIc6Iu1GTsh0sESXJK-vCVpuw?feat=embedwebsite)

I've also pulled a 40' travel trailer but that is totally inadvisable. That run even damaged my rear cross member on a steep downhill section where the trailer pushed the truck down hill around a freshly graveled road. :eek:

[LR Max]

My lightweight can pull this 25' MacGregor without any trouble. Even had it on the highway and although you have to plan ahead for braking and acceleration, it's not that bad to drive.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Mw8MF8Gu0DU/RZ7FZAIJIuI/AAAAAAAAAqU/3gfE5esrT8w/s144/DSC00227.JPG (http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qG9PP299Y-JbA9XwJqMIc6Iu1GTsh0sESXJK-vCVpuw?feat=embedwebsite)

I've also pulled a 40' travel trailer but that is totally inadvisable. That run even damaged my rear cross member on a steep downhill section where the trailer pushed the truck down hill around a freshly graveled road. :eek:

I want your boat...just thought I'd tell ya :thumb-up:

[Tim Smith]

I want your boat...just thought I'd tell ya :thumb-up:That one sold a month ago. You know what the two best days of boat ownership are, right? Well I've had both. ;)

[LaneRover]

That one sold a month ago. You know what the two best days of boat ownership are, right? Well I've had both. ;)

This also goes for the 2 best days on a job in Film and TV.

[Tim Smith]

This also goes for the 2 best days on a job in Film and TV.
Hey Brenton, if we could combine the two we could probably get four great days out if it. Add to that, towing with a rover and we might need to add a margin of error of +-4 days. :rolleyes:

[LR Max]

That one sold a month ago. You know what the two best days of boat ownership are, right? Well I've had both. ;)

I believe this. I've got a Laser and I love it. Nice being able to hook it up to my car and not needing a truck to move it around. The hour drive to the lake and back doesn't require a stop at the gas station :thumb-up:

[gudjeon]

A boat with a retractable keel is the only way to go to make for easy slipping in and out. The Sandpiper is cranked up/down but the mast is a big job. So it gets parked for the summer in the water.

On the Saltchuck, a boat is a hole in the water you throw money into.:rolleyes: