Dana front and rear thoughts.

[SGS714]

I have found a dana 44 front and dana 60 rear axels from a very low mileage 1986 jeep j20 3/4 ton pickup within 40mi of my home for $200. Is this something that will fit under my 71 IIa without much trouble or should I pass on them? I am willing to give up the inch of clearance.

[leafsprung]

if you are asking this question I would pass on them

[JimCT]

Why would you want to?

[I Leak Oil]

Even if you don't use them on your rover, for $200 I'd pick them up anyway. You could make some dough reselling them or save them for a future project.

[SGS714]

Why would you want to?

All my equipment works for me...be it basic transportation, towing, or recreational off-road use. Even my dogs need to earn their keep and they do hard labor...(3mo a year they average 100-200mi a week in upland cover for birds). Anyway I have heard many accounts that the axiles and diffs are the weak link of a Series. I do not care whether or not that they are factory or British issue. What I expect out of this truck is the ability to get miles off a hard road during hunting season and be able to make it back safe.

[mongoswede]

I picked up a set of Dana 44's out of a 1980 International Scout II. The front axle is a passenger side drop diff and the rear is a center drop. The front brakes are discs while the rears are drums. We looked at fitting the axles to my 88" land rover project but decided to save them for something else. Spring mount bolts on the front axle pass through the diff housing so that you are limited on position....this would require the spring mounts to be moved outboard on the frame by about 1.5 inches per side....not that big of a deal but a mod none the less. The rear would just be a matter of welding the spring perches into the proper location. That said it looked like one of the cross members would have to be modified in order to fit a center drive shaft...which means that a different transfer case would have to be used. I considered using a Dana 300...then I'd have to decide whether to keep the stock rover engine and transmission and adapt them to the new drive configuration...or should I just put in all new stuff. So in the end we just kept it stock because the $125 I spent for the axles was a deal. However it was quickly looking like $2000 worth of mods just drive those axles.

Are the Jeep axles you are looking at both passenger side drop? If so and the spacing is such that all you have to do is weld on new spring perches then I'd say go for it. I think the axles in the wagoneers were Dana 44's and might have both been Passenger drops also the axles from Land Cruiser FJ40,55,60, and I think 62's are all Passenger side drops. I think the Land cruiser axles are easier to fit and there is a thread in this forum with lots of good info on swapping them.

[SGS714]

So in the end we just kept it stock because the $125 I spent for the axles was a deal. However it was quickly looking like $2000 worth of mods just drive those axles.

I think the Land cruiser axles are easier to fit and there is a thread in this forum with lots of good info on swapping them.

Mongoswede, Thank you this is just the type of info I am looking for. As you could see in my other post...I just happened on these and know I will be doing some type of drive train upgrades to the truck. I am not looking for a simple drop/bolt in upgrade and don't mind at all doing the fabrication....just not beyond what makes sense for the goal in mind.
Here are the axles.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/jeep-j10-j20-dana-44-dana-60-axels-tires-wheels-/350372335376?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5193d18f10

[mongoswede]

The front looks like it has enough spacing to work well with a rover allowing for enough room to just remount the spring mounts. The rear is a center drop which will require a lot of work to fit...you will at the least need to install a different transfer case to work with the center drop diff. You may need to modify your frame to clear the drive shaft and you will likely need some custom drive shafts made up.

[SafeAirOne]

If I may make a suggestion...

Why not just slap a Salisbury (Dana 60) rear axle in there and be done with it? The cost may be more at the outset, but if your time is worth anything, it'll be cheaper in the end.

[mongoswede]

If I may make a suggestion...

Why not just slap a Salisbury (Dana 60) rear axle in there and be done with it? The initial cost may be more at the outset, but if your time is worth anything, it'll be cheaper in the end.any idea where to get one? The ones I found for sale were ridiculously expensive.

[JimCT]

So if you are not happy with the LR why have one in the first place? Just curious.

[SGS714]

So if you are not happy with the LR why have one in the first place? Just curious.
I apologize if I have offended you is some way. You have not made a positive statement yet in your post on this thread. I do not recall ever saying I was not happy with the LR. As an owner of 3 Land Rover Products with only 2 drivers in the family and no other makes of transportation I am curious how you came to this conclusion. Actually I really don't care and prefer not reading another post from you on this topic.

[SafeAirOne]

any idea where to get one? The ones I found for sale were ridiculously expensive.

Good point...It's easy for me to presume that they're laying around the countryside, just waiting to be wisked away for pennies on the dollar, because I'm not in need of one.

[SGS714]

If I may make a suggestion...

Why not just slap a Salisbury (Dana 60) rear axle in there and be done with it? The cost may be more at the outset, but if your time is worth anything, it'll be cheaper in the end.

I agree but have not found one for less money then I paid for my truck. I do a search in eBay for Salisbury and then one for Dana to keep looking and hope to trip over something that works. I thought I had a Dana 60, but didn't realize they had center diff.

Are there any other makes or models out there that used the Dana 60 with passenger side drop diff or was this only a Rover thing?

Again, appreciate the thoughts.

[thixon]

SGS 714,

Most of us don't know much about you, so we don't know what you're capable of. If fab work is no problem for you, then go for it. At a minimum on any axle swap you'll be looking at fabbing/mounting new spring perches, dealing with axle positioning (can be a bear b/c of camber and castor issues), and dealing with drive shaft issues. You could make those axles work, but there are some easier options out there. There was an intersting post just recently on this board concerning Toyota FJ40 axles. Do a search for it. Alternatively, there are shaft upgrades to the rover axle that seem to work well for people (see www.seriestrek.com or www.greatbasinrovers.com). The Salisbury option is a good one. It will cost you more for the axle than the deal you have going for the dana's, but will be a faster swap (probably).

Good luck, and post up what/how you go about your fix!

[LR Max]

Good price on axles, but not for installation into your rover.

While I'm sure you are oogling over a Dana 60, the fact of the matter is that stock Dana 60s aren't that much stronger than a Dana 44. The 44 and the 60 both have the same axle shaft size. Also there is a possibility that the Dana 60 you are looking at is semi-float, making it less desirable.

However the front Dana 44 is desirable for jeepers. You could probably pick it up for $100 and then sell it for ~$300. Maybe more if you painted it and cleaned it up. Also assuming said axle isn't all shot to crap (I.E. good gears, good carrier, good shafts, etc).

[SGS714]

SGS 714,

Most of us don't know much about you, so we don't know what you're capable of. You could make those axles work, but there are some easier options out there. There was an intersting post just recently on this board concerning Toyota FJ40 axles. Do a search for it. Alternatively, there are shaft upgrades to the rover axle that seem to work well for people (see www.seriestrek.com (http://www.seriestrek.com) or www.greatbasinrovers.com (http://www.greatbasinrovers.com)). The Salisbury option is a good one. It will cost you more for the axle than the deal you have going for the dana's, but will be a faster swap (probably).

Good luck, and post up what/how you go about your fix!

Thixon, Thanks! I am new to wrench turning with no background other than a desire to be more self reliant and have a deeper understanding of how these outstanding pieces of engineering work. I enjoy the process of creating equipment ideal for my needs. The RRC I drive has been a very long 3 year project that I was the assistant for my mechanic on, but learned a great deal along the way. Owned an 89 RRC since new and upgraded to the present 95 3 years ago. Back to the Series....Have always admired them for the obvious reasons and sold a MGB I had driven in the summers for 13 years and bought my present project. Your post was very helpful and will pass on these axles and probably make the investment in the Seriestrek, or Great Plains solution to knock this off my (I want to do someday list).

Below is a list of things we have done to this truck in the last 60 days and now have a fairly reliable driver. Servo, clutch master, 16" rims and BF Goodyear MT's, Roverdrive, brake lines, wheel cylinders, seals, carb overhaul, complete steam cleaning and then Waxoled, and new seats and suspension. And have no regretts so far....all monies well spent.

[yorker]

The easiest upgrade would be Series Trek's 24 spline conversion. You don't mention if your IIa is an 88 or a 109? For total axle swaps:If you are looking at Jeep axles then the narrowtrack Dana 44s would be a source. the narrow Land Cruiser 40/45/55 axles are another option.

In reality if it is an 88" you are probably fine with the 10 spline axles, just check them once in a while to make sure the splines are not twisted, if they are then replace both sides. These trucks went all over the world with 10 spline axles and got by just fine. It isn't the best design, it isn't bulletproof, but it does work and is your cheapest and likely most sensible option.

[amcordo]

Yo!

The PO of my POS (but I love it) swapped out all the original SIII axles with new ones. I've got to admit that I haven't even touched those yet (beyond routine oil changing) so I'm in over my head here. All I remember is that he said he swapped them out to make sure they were Salisbury from a Stage 1. Haven't had a problem with them yet while driving it on highways all the time.

Anyway, moral of the story is that I think he got them from the website below. If I remember looking at the old invoice shipping from the UK for the axle wasn't very expensive (though it was probably on a slow boat). Just something to think about if none of the stores this side of the pond are sitting on a new one...

http://www.lrseries.com/

[mongoswede]

Series III Stage 1 V8 Salisbury rear axle assembly:
http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/15598/FRC4408-STAGE-1-V8-REAR-SALISBURY-AXLE-ASSEMBLY.html?limit=0&search=salisbury&page=1 Shipping will likely be expensive.


the older units are available too. Do a search on that UK site under Land Rover Series & "Salisbury". If you decide to go that route you might ask around as some one else may be interested in shipping one as well...if it might cut down on shipping.

[amcordo]

Series III Stage 1 V8 Salisbury rear axle assembly:
http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/15598/FRC4408-STAGE-1-V8-REAR-SALISBURY-AXLE-ASSEMBLY.html?limit=0&search=salisbury&page=1 Shipping will likely be expensive.


the older units are available too. Do a search on that UK site under Land Rover Series & "Salisbury". If you decide to go that route you might ask around as some one else may be interested in shipping one as well...if it might cut down on shipping.


$US 571 isn't too bad! I'll try to find that invoice again to give you an idea of what shipping ran back in the day (late 90s). Or you can email them - they're helpful. This is all assuming a) you're interested in getting a nice salisbury, and b) have already asked our hosts if they've got one sitting around.

and PS I said it "won't be bad" but of course mongoswede is right that it'll be attrocious when compared to a domestic order. Probably quarter to half a grand easy. If you found other people willing to get them the cost would go down signficantly because it isn't the weight you'd be paying for, rather the logistics.

[amcordo]

IF YOU THINK ABOUT GETTING THIS ORDER: I'll add something to the order to cut down on your cost a bit. They have disc brake conversion kits!! See the other thread...


Series III Stage 1 V8 Salisbury rear axle assembly:
http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/15598/FRC4408-STAGE-1-V8-REAR-SALISBURY-AXLE-ASSEMBLY.html?limit=0&search=salisbury&page=1 Shipping will likely be expensive.


the older units are available too. Do a search on that UK site under Land Rover Series & "Salisbury". If you decide to go that route you might ask around as some one else may be interested in shipping one as well...if it might cut down on shipping.

[mongoswede]

The trick to bringing large stuff over from the UK is to fill a containter. Spend the $4000 or $5000 or whatever the cost is these days and fill a 40' container with trucks and parts. I know RN and other suppliers do this from time to time. If you ask nice perhaps they would let you ad to one of their containers...not sure on this one...but its worth a try.

[SGS714]

Series III Stage 1 V8 Salisbury rear axle assembly:
http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/15598/FRC4408-STAGE-1-V8-REAR-SALISBURY-AXLE-ASSEMBLY.html?limit=0&search=salisbury&page=1 Shipping will likely be expensive.


the older units are available too. Do a search on that UK site under Land Rover Series & "Salisbury". If you decide to go that route you might ask around as some one else may be interested in shipping one as well...if it might cut down on shipping.

Wow, these guys have deep stock and I think this one might be the ticket.
http://www.lrseries.com/shop/product/listing/14313/576764-SALISBURY-REAR-AXLE-ASSEMBLY.html?limit=0&search=Salisbury&page=1
Has same ratio as current rear end and with the roverdrive installed i really like my current gearing..

At the office tomarrow I will run the numbers of this shipped over compared to the options offered by the Seriestrek, and GBR shipped.

If I choose to order I will check to see what it adds to order other item and stuff in the box. There would be plenty of unused space in the crate. I have bought 2 engines in the last 5yrs from the UK and the shipping is expensive but not to bad. The 4.6 V8 long block was low $400's and my MG engine was even less.

Great info and appreciate the help.

[lrdukdog]

Go here for that rear salisbury.
http://gunsandrovers.yuku.com/topic/6223/t/Anyone-need-a-Series-Salisbury.html

Jim Wolf

[feildpickedrover]

umm.. ive got a quick question, couldnt you just modify two front diffs? i know that pro street builders sometimes welld their own axle/diff houseings up, so i would imagine itd be just as easy to cut the axle tubes off and spin the diff around to face forward, then weld back together and reinstall the axles, or would this mess up the internals somehow?

[I Leak Oil]

umm.. ive got a quick question, couldnt you just modify two front diffs? i know that pro street builders sometimes welld their own axle/diff houseings up, so i would imagine itd be just as easy to cut the axle tubes off and spin the diff around to face forward, then weld back together and reinstall the axles, or would this mess up the internals somehow?

??????? I must be missing something. Why would you do this?

[feildpickedrover]

gah, never mind, i just realized that a front diff would have the steering axles, but it would possibly be possible to modify a rear diff to fit under the back of a rover (modified from center drop to pass.drop) if you can get custom axles made, just shorten the axle tubes, and re weld (they do it in drag car applications all the time)but this isn't cost effective i don't think, if i remember correct my dad had a set made for an old ford at 300 an axle when he got sick of cracking them

[bkreutz]

I had thoughts of 4 wheel steering when I read that. That might be "interesting".:D

[yorker]

I had thoughts of 4 wheel steering when I read that. That might be "interesting".:D
reminde me of the Ford GP 4ws (http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=164095) &
Willys MA-4WS (http://www.jpmagazine.com/thehistoryof/5463/index.html)
http://image.jpmagazine.com/f/9594909+w750+st0/p43963_image_large.jpg

http://image.jpmagazine.com/f/9594924+w750+st0/p43973_image_large.jpg


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re cut and custom axles:
If you were going to cut axles/tubes and narrow them you might as well start with a set of Ford 9" axles or something like that.

[mongoswede]

ever see the old Doge power wagon Swivel frames?

http://www.dodgepowerwagon.com/pictures/swivel.jpg

[feildpickedrover]

I saw that pic once without knowing what it was, at the time i thought "oh wow that sucks, look how bad they messed their frame up!"

also, four wheel steering could be possible if you incorporate a hydraulic steering system from a tractor, saw that on a rock crawler once, dont ask me how they did it bit i remember they had a hydro steering box and hydraulic arms front and back for steering

[bkreutz]

reminde me of the Ford GP 4ws (http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=164095) &
Willys MA-4WS (http://www.jpmagazine.com/thehistoryof/5463/index.html)
http://image.jpmagazine.com/f/9594909+w750+st0/p43963_image_large.jpg

http://image.jpmagazine.com/f/9594924+w750+st0/p43973_image_large.jpg


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re cut and custom axles:
If you were going to cut axles/tubes and narrow them you might as well start with a set of Ford 9" axles or something like that.

That's what got me thinking about it.