Copper "grease" on bolts
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I agree with both of Ted's last posts. My real world, unscientific observation, in an uncontrolled environment (for what that's worth) is that stainless through the Birmabright is not as insidious as regular steel. Though, of course I can't see down to the molecular level. Could be going all to white powder somewhere under the surface.
Ted's next post aligns with my own Rover ethic as well. Finally (after having and losing two other series III Rovers [check my other posts for that story]), I have (though am not driving yet) my dream car back in my driveway. (I also consider myself lucky that my dream car isn't a Ferrari 250 Dino - though if you're offering ...)
Since I bought my first Series Rover in about '90, I've called them the ultimate recyclables. I expect/hope I'll never buy another car (though I also have a low miles Miata if I need to get up to highway speeds quickly).
So bring on the corrosion-beating, rot-reducing, gall-ungalling, life extending (mine and the Rovers) hints, tips and tricks!Leave a comment:
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I agree, this is a good conversation. I am very new to Rovers and have been thinking about ways to reduce the corrosive effects of differing metals, so I am learning a lot here. Thanks for all of the technical data!
J
Again, not really. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you don't fully understand galvanic corrosion. The physical electrical connection between the metals is not where you see the galvanic corrosion. It is the surfaces of the metal that are exposed to the electrolytic solution.
Anyhow, I guess I'm getting a little too technical on the subject, so I'll just drop it.Leave a comment:
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Galling in stainless isn't really a problem if you use a different type of stainless for the nuts and bolts. For example, use a 316 stainless nut AND bolt, and it'll probably jam up during tightening, but use a 316 stainless bolt and a 304 stainless nut and you'll be all set.
Mongoswede, 300 series stainless is far from brittle; it's quite soft, with a much higher elongation than carbon and low alloy steels. Brittlness, a lay term for ductility, Elongation and reduction of area is measured both by pulling tensile bars, and Charpy V Notch testing. 300 series test bars pull like taffy, and when heat treated (quenched and solution annealed)for maximum corrosion resistance, and has max UTS in the 65,000 psi range, and yield strengths of around 35,ooo psi, very low compared to low alloy carbon steel, but much higher ductility. Grade 8 fasteners are made from Low Alloy carbon steels with yield strengths of 85,000 min yield, and 105,000 min UTS (Ultimate Tensile Strength) They are lower in Ductility than 300 series stainless steels, but because their strengths (Y & UTS) are so high, are not effected unless over stressed.
The above useless trivia is garnered from 30 years producing Carbon, Low Alloy and Stainless Steels, with full chemical and physical testing labs.
My major customers, GD Electric Boat, GE Power Generation, and Dresser Rand were pretty particlar about the quality of our castings. (up to 15 tons)Leave a comment:
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Yes, the body is aluminum, but that was an accident of history, and as we have discussed here, comes with its own set of problems.
Yes, some parts are galvanized (thankfully), but many more are not - like the bulkhead and the frame (which IIRC was galvy on early protos and dropped for cost reasons).
And it seems that the designers went out of their way to make a truck that has the maximum number of dirt traps and critical areas / wiring that get sandblasted from daily use.
We are all trying to keep our beloved 40+YO beasts on the road while not dissolving before our eyes. Let's keep sharing what we have learned.Leave a comment:
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Again, not really. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you don't fully understand galvanic corrosion. The physical electrical connection between the metals is not where you see the galvanic corrosion. It is the surfaces of the metal that are exposed to the electrolytic solution.
Anyhow, I guess I'm getting a little too technical on the subject, so I'll just drop it.Leave a comment:
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My truck was 21 years old when I go it in '91. It spent its life in Maine, and had all the usual aluminum corrosion: where the steering box cover rubbed against the inner wing, where the tail lights were grounded on the tub, etc etc etc. Every nut/bolt seemed to be rusted into one piece. Ugh.
I proceeded to replace all the fasteners with stainless, and in the following 20 odd-years have seen no evidence of aluminium corrosion with stainless fasteners. And this is while living within sight of the ocean - we have salt air, salt water, salt snow, salt on the roads in winter, salt everything. People's cars can rot just sitting in the driveway here.
So I guess I'm going to continue to schlep to Ace Hardware for stainless. Just my $.02.Leave a comment:
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I've had my wings, rad support panel, floor panels, transmission tunnel and seat box off so many times that I've had plenty of opportunity to replace all the 1/4-28 fasteners with 1/4-20 stainless bolts and nuts/washers. I haven't had a problem removing the fasteners since. Occasionally I'll come across an original fastener (like on the sill panels) and it'll be a real PITA to get apart, or it'll just snap during removal.
The aluminum gets pretty corroded using the original fasteners in some areas, such as the fastener holes on the seat box where it rests on the steel t-posts or where the steel compartments in the seat box are riveted (using al rivets) to the aluminum seat box.Leave a comment:
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Tony,
I don't think anyone in this thread is resistant to using SS fasteners, we just wanted to make sure it was understood that using them with the intention of stopping the corrosion of the aluminum parts would not work.
I will say this, I think you'd be better off worrying about other improvements rather than spending time and money considering exactly what fastener goes where. It will take a really, really long time for you to have problems with corrosion of the aluminum parts. My truck had some issues with the mounting points of the wings in the engine bay. They were still usable, but did have some corrosion. The truck is 44 years old.
All that said, its your hobby. Do what you want with it. If it makes you happy to see nice shiny SS fasteners holding the body together then install 'em.Leave a comment:
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Not really. The chances of the stainless bolt not being in electrical contact with the aluminum is slim. You would have to have centered the bolt in the hole before tightening, making very sure that the bolt didn't touch the aluminum at all during the tightening process. Use your multimeter to check for continuity between the bolt head and the aluminum and you'll see what I mean.
True, but I've minimized the area that will be corroded. Plus even if I used a normal steel it would STILL get corrosion. Not a concern for me, but thanks for yours!
fyi, 300 series ss bolts & nuts, because ss is so soft, tend to deform the threads, and you will find removing tightend ss bolts equally a pain. Also, 300 series stainless is not as strong as a grade 8 fastener. 400 series (CA15, 410ss) are very strong and heat resistant, but expensive.
Quite frankly the strength issue is moot; they've been on some places across my car for a year now, and the rest for the past three months including that long trip to southern KY and I've had no issues with stripping, bending, or otherwise breaking. And I've no intention of using them on drivetrain since they're just not made for that kind of stress.
I'm surprised there's so much resistence to changing all the fasteners you can to SS from a few of you - it's not original, but regardless of what you say it'll be a darned site easier removing it than normal or zinc coated steel in a few years. I can attest to that because the PO used it in the floorboards when he did his upgrade in '95. They were simple to remove. Other bolts - as I said they were easier to grind or more likely to snap.Leave a comment:
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Just remember that stainless bolts are not as strong...or I should say they tend to be more brittle. So they work ok for low strain applications but I wouldn't use stainless on something like a spring bolt.Leave a comment:
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A couple of thoughts...
I think you are much, much more likely to have an issue getting an unprotected rusty nut off an unprotected rusty bolt than you are to have a galvanic corrosion issue using any type of anti-seize.
Galling in stainless isn't really a problem if you use a different type of stainless for the nuts and bolts. For example, use a 316 stainless nut AND bolt, and it'll probably jam up during tightening, but use a 316 stainless bolt and a 304 stainless nut and you'll be all set.Leave a comment:
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Not really. The chances of the stainless bolt not being in electrical contact with the aluminum is slim. You would have to have centered the bolt in the hole before tightening, making very sure that the bolt didn't touch the aluminum at all during the tightening process. Use your multimeter to check for continuity between the bolt head and the aluminum and you'll see what I mean.Leave a comment:
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fyi, 300 series ss bolts & nuts, because ss is so soft, tend to deform the threads, and you will find removing tightend ss bolts equally a pain. Also, 300 series stainless is not as strong as a grade 8 fastener. 400 series (CA15, 410ss) are very strong and heat resistant, but expensive.Leave a comment:
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Quite the discussion evolving here.
All I know is that the stuff saved my bacon tonight, made getting the pin out from between the brake lever and the servo a breeze!Leave a comment:
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