The plot tickens (series III backfire/idle, brakes)

Hey guys, just a quick update...

Took the distributor cap off to inspect the points, and then turned the engine over ... forgetting to put the cap back on. I cranked it for about 15 seconds and then realized what I'd done.

Long story short, if the coil wasn't dead before, then it is now. The ignition lead is strong at 12V and the small lead going to the distributor is strong at 12V, but the lead coming out of the coil to the top of the distributor is dead dead dead. It will slowly discharge a few microvolts but doesnt seem to put putting out anything substantial.

This was confirmed by my the brother of my friend, a mechanic whos is a little red, he used a screw driver and tried to get it to arch off the block...didn't seem wise to me, but nonetheless, no spark.

without the vacuum it was pointless to try and bleed the brakes - right? So we got the back to bleed and called it a night.

So - does a coil fail slowly? Could it be my root cause of the backfiring, etc? or did I burn it out by cracking without the distributor cap in place? It got hot!

Next question - anyone know what kind of coil I need for my 2.5l?

While I had the cap of, I checked the points, they were new and clean, but pitted, going to replace the as well.

Also, to time them, I understand I need to turn the crankshaft - the pulley is held on with a large (guessing 34mm) bolt - nothing I have fits it, and its recessed into the pulley so I can't get a monkey wrench on it. It does not have the groves for a hand crank. Any ideas on turning it over to time the new points?

Finally - brakes, the front two bleeders are rusty and slick with oil and feel like they are stripping - any ideas on getting them open without damaging?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NickDawson

Hey guys, just a quick update...


Also, to time them, I understand I need to turn the crankshaft - the pulley is held on with a large (guessing 34mm) bolt - nothing I have fits it, and its recessed into the pulley so I can't get a monkey wrench on it. It does not have the groves for a hand crank. Any ideas on turning it over to time the new points?

Finally - brakes, the front two bleeders are rusty and slick with oil and feel like they are stripping - any ideas on getting them open without damaging?

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I'll have to re-read the first part to better understand what your saying.. ?

As for rotating the points cam(lobe) to open the points w/o using the front pulley.

1.) place car in 4th gear high range T/Case and slowy push it forward. have someone with you to step on the brakes

2.) you may be able to rotate the engine by grabbing and rotating the fan blade(Trans not in gear, car's wheels blocked) which will turn the lower pulley via the v-belt, though you may have the fan shroud in the way.


...Talbot

Here's a web album of a few pages of the book I mentioned to you in your other posting.... Click on the pics to enlarge them....TJR

http://picasaweb.google.com/88series...eat=directlink

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NickDawson

Hey guys, just a quick update...

So - does a coil fail slowly? Could it be my root cause of the backfiring, etc? or did I burn it out by cracking without the distributor cap in place? It got hot!

Also, to time them, I understand I need to turn the crankshaft - the pulley is held on with a large (guessing 34mm) bolt - nothing I have fits it, and its recessed into the pulley so I can't get a monkey wrench on it. It does not have the groves for a hand crank. Any ideas on turning it over to time the new points?

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Check the wiring, too, before you sign the death certificate on that coil. HT lead could be bad, the ground may be faulty, etc.

Also, if I were you I'd simply go purchase the correct socket for that front pulley so you can turn the crank. But since you don't seem to have the hand crank dog on the pulley, do something like pull the plugs to ensure the engine doesn't fire while you've got a wrench on that pulley... you'd get more than bruised knuckles if it did !

I assume that you have a double groove crank pulley and that's why the bolt is recessed. I'm in the same boat. The socket is 1-11/16" or 43mm. Tractor Supply usually stocks the 1-11/16" socket in 3/4" drive.

Nick

First, do you own the factory service manual for this truck? You are asking some pretty open ended questions that really require long and complicated answers and would best be solved by you acquiring and the manual and following its instructions step by step. The haynes manual also has a pretty good section on ignition troubleshooting.

short answers below:


>This was confirmed by my the brother of my friend, a mechanic whos is a little red,

are you saying he is a redneck? how is that pertinent to the story?

>he used a screw driver and tried to get it to arch off the block...didn't seem wise to me, but nonetheless, no spark.

arc, not arch. what else did he do. did he try to figure out why there is no spark?

>without the vacuum it was pointless to try and bleed the brakes - right?

wrong. no vacuum required. do it with the engine off.

>So - does a coil fail slowly?

never had one fail so I don't know

>Could it be my root cause of the backfiring, etc?

doubt it. most likely it is your haphazard diagnostic and tuning method.

>did I burn it out by cracking without the distributor cap in place?

doubt it. coil will still discharge through the points. do you see an arc there?

>It got hot!

something is not set up properly.

>Next question - anyone know what kind of coil I need for my 2.5l?

yes, the kind our hosts sell. end of story. you can get into parts substitution later in life when you have leanred more of the basics. if RN's price is to high then go somewhere else but don't talk about it here. just make sure you buy one for a LR.

>While I had the cap of, I checked the points, they were new and clean, >but pitted, going to replace the as well.

pitted is not the same as new and clean.

> the pulley is held on with a large (guessing 34mm) bolt - Any ideas on >turning it over to time the new points?

um, a 34 mm socket perhaps?

>Finally - brakes, the front two bleeders are rusty and slick with oil and >feel like they are stripping - any ideas on getting them open without >damaging?

if I get stuck bleeders I pull the rubber bits out of the cylinder and heat the bleeder with a MAPP torch. that usually works. if you can't fathom this then buy new cylinders. again, MAPP gas to get the lines undone or you'll be replacing them too. Keep a fire extinguisher close at hand any time you are using open flame on your vehicle. see what I mean about long answers?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daveb

Nick

if I get stuck bleeders I pull the rubber bits out of the cylinder and heat the bleeder with a MAPP torch. that usually works. if you can't fathom this then buy new cylinders. again, MAPP gas to get the lines undone or you'll be replacing them too. Keep a fire extinguisher close at hand any time you are using open flame on your vehicle. see what I mean about long answers?

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Heat the cylinder body around the bleeder and/or brake line fitting, try not to put heat to the bleeder screw itself or brake line fitting. You're hoping to expand the metal of the cylinder body enough to allow those things to screw out.

Thanks all, I appreciate the input!

I may not be testing it correctly, but I checked every wire coming into and out of that coil. It was dark out at the time, I think we would have seen a spark if there was one. I don't want to be hasty in replacing it, but it really seems to have kicked the bucket.

I retract my statement about the points looking new and/or pitted - frankly I guess I dont know what they should look like.

I'll check around for that 1-11/16th socket today, thanks Jac04.

some pics, for what they are worth...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3522/...59b4aeeb_m.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2551/...844aed79_m.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2497/...45bb0624_m.jpg
this is the connection b/t the distributor and the carb - anyone think that cracked bushing could be a problem?

I don't want to ask the questions the wrong way or sound repetitive, but I feel pretty confident that the coil is dead. I'll call RN and see what my options are.
I'm still curious if the coil was slowing going bad and not delivering a good spark, wouldn't that account for my slight backfiring? Maybe that's wishful thinking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NickDawson

Thanks all, I appreciate the input!

I'll check around for that 1-11/16th socket today, thanks Jac04.

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Save the receipt!

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Originally Posted by pisten-bully

Save the receipt!

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what am I missing?

Not that I am a wealth of experience but your trials and tribulations seems to be mirroring my problems with my recently aquired truck (and our mechanical knowledge seem to match up, i.e. near non-existant) so here it goes.

Get a new cap, rotor, points, condenser, wires & plugs, that way you can eliminate those relatively cheap parts as the problem. Keep the old ones incase they were good so you will have spares. I'd do the distributor parts first , if no change in performance then change the plugs, again if no change then the wires.

The bushing your refer to is the vacuum advance, it shouldn't have anything to do with your problems as it only comes into play at higher engine speeds.

I also stripped out my brake bleed screw so I went ahead and installed new wheel cylinders, again not too expensive and now I don't have to worry about them. Actually one thing lead to another and I re-did the entire brake system, remember whoa is more important than go!

My biggest advice to you is to find someone with basic mechanical knowledge (these trucks are VERY basic) and make him/her your best buddy. I was adopted my the mechanics here at the plant and have learned sooo much by their hands-on training/advice that is impossible to convey via this board. Buy them lunch, dinner or free health care, what ever deal you can strike but it very difficult and discouraging to try to trouble shoot alone at our level. I couldn't have done what I've done without hands-on help.

I'd be willing to help you later on but right know I'm finishing my truck (new distrbutor and u-joints go on tonight) and if I start spending time under another truck right away I believe SWMBO may not be very happy. Give me a week or two!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NickDawson

what am I missing?

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You know Land Rovers... no two are alike. So if the socket doesn't fit, take it back and get another!

I think it would be wise to invest in the proper Whitworth and other tools if you are going to do your own wrenching. For the bleeders use a dedicated bleeder wrench or a flair wrench. Soak it liberally with WD40 and let it sit overnight, then give it a sharp tap. If that doesn't work then resort to the heat method. Just make sure you have a new set of bleeder valves on hand.
As for the vacuum advance, any vacuum leak in the system can cause problems. Your engine is drawing in air which effectively leans out the fuel mixture. In addition the job of the vacuum advance is to advance the timing under no load conditions ( that's when the vacuum is at it's greatest) as when you are running with the throttle closed. So a vacuum leak will not only allow the mixture to lean out it will also prevent the distributor from advancing the spark to the degree needed under partial throttle conditions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bmohan55

My biggest advice to you is to find someone with basic mechanical knowledge (these trucks are VERY basic) and make him/her your best buddy.

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Agree with this 100% - just trying to find the right buddy. My neighbor is pretty knowledgeable, but is no expert on Rovers. Together we are better than either one of us on our own. Not the same as having a master mechanic, but its a start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pisten-bully

You know Land Rovers... no two are alike. So if the socket doesn't fit, take it back and get another!

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Tell me about it! :D

Kevkon - I'll get that vacuum line to the advance sorted as well.

Ordered a new cylinder (proline), plugs, points, condenser and cap from our hosts along with a new wheel cylinder in case I cant get the bleeder loose.

I also found the 1-11/16th socket on Amazon ($5 and with their prime service, free shipping) along with a set of feeler gauges

If it ever starts again, it will be a miracle, but in the mean time at least it will have a bunch of shiny new parts :D

Thanks again folks!

One more question -
The Green bible's limited diagrams show the wheel cylinders on the top of the wheel. On mine, that is true for the rears. But on the front wheels the bleeder is on the bottom. Does that sound correct?

Sounds like someone put the lefts on the right and rights on the left....Or upside down. I REALLY would like to see a picture of this!

Full set here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nickdaw...7622029085631/

I'm looking at the 90/110 book I have - these look strangely like defender fronts...
I'd rather someone tell me that I'm just wrong about the location of the bleeder, that its in fact up top and I'm just missing it. Guessing that if they are 90/110 wheels (axle too?) that wheel cylinder that I ordered won't work, is that the case?

Note to anyone thinking about importing a truck: DONT or at least make sure you know more than I did at the time

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3419/...6eaeff07fe.jpg

you have two brake cylinders on the front. one on the top and one on the bottom. the bleeder screw is on the bottom, same as mine. thats how its supposed to be.

Someone has upgraded your truck to a set of 11" drums from a 109. They do increase stopping power but require a certain skill to bleed properly. You can either modify the line routing to move the bleed screw to the top or remove the backing palte, brakes and all and hold it in an orientation that puts the bleed nipple at the high point of the system.

the closer I get...
Just went to pull the wheel and realized I don't own a jack that is tall enough - maybe time to buy a floor jack :D

Going back to the plan of tring to find a local shop. Right now I have a truck that won't start, won't stop and I'm over my head. Thanks for the advice thus far guys!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenmeanie

Someone has upgraded your truck to a set of 11" drums from a 109. They do increase stopping power but require a certain skill to bleed properly. You can either modify the line routing to move the bleed screw to the top or remove the backing palte, brakes and all and hold it in an orientation that puts the bleed nipple at the high point of the system.

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Thanks Green - the green bible doesn't detail that in the 109 section - is that the standard way to bleed a 109 setup?

Nick... as stated earlier...someone has either upgraded your front brakes or maybe it was an axle swap.
Either way.. I did the same brake upgrage to my Ser III 88 though I've never driven it yet. still slowly rebuilding

In fact the swap I did was exactly what the LR factory did in the 1980's to the Ser III 88's (see pics below)
Pre-june 1980 UK 88's had Frt & Rear 10" drums with a larger front wheel cylinder. F&R drums and brake shoes were the same.

The upgraded 88 system is basically this...
Use 4 cyl 109 11 drums, backing plates, shoes and dual wheel cylinders up front
use the orignal 10 drums, backing plates , shoes in the rear, BUT use the original 88" 10 brake FRONT wheel cylinders. The larger dia wheel cylinder will then boost the rear brakes.
Now to handle the larger rear wheel cylinders and the 11 dual cylinders.. you need to upgrade to a dual 109 brake master cylinder inorder to have the correct pedal volume. You might want to find out what other compnenets you have in the rear and the master cyl.



Whenever I have a stuck bleader the use of a good penetrating oil is step one. Kroil-oil, PB blaster or Howes Lubricant seem to me to be the best.. WD 40 has never done much for me.

You can get a new bleeder, so if it round over with your 6 (SIX) point socket or wrench... you'll need try really tight visegrips. No 12 point tools to be used here. If you are successfull... here are some bleeding tips..

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6635

http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php?t=166880


Ref Material for brake setups. though the sketch seems to show the 109 dual cylinders 90 degrees out of position???

http://picasaweb.google.com/88series...eat=directlink

Nick,

It'd help if you kept posting to the same thread. That way it'd be easier to reference what you've already said and done.

Take a pic of your dizzy from directly above, with the rotor button off. It kinda looks like the low tension lead is attached to the condenser mount. If that's the case then the points aren't opening the circuit to the coil, which wouldn't allow the coil to fire. With the "-" side of the coil permanently grounded the coil would get really hot from the really strong magnetic field it would be producing.

The low tension lead is suppose to be attached to the points so that it isolates the "-" side of the coil from ground. That way the coil's "-" side is isolated from ground EXCEPT when the points are closed. The condenser should be attached to the same place on the points as the low tension lead.

Here's a sight that explains automotive ignition and it has pictures.
http://www.2carpros.com/how_does_it_work/ignition.htm


Brakes
On the bleeder screws make sure you use a six sided closed end wrench to prevent stripping off the sides of the bleeder screws. PB Blaster is better to loosen frozen threads then WD-40, IMHO.

Some friendly advice. Take LOTS of pictures before you take stuff apart. Then you'll have a visual reminder of what it's suppose to look like.

Cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nium

Nick,

It'd help if you kept posting to the same thread. That way it'd be easier to reference what you've already said and done.

Take a pic of your dizzy from directly above, with the rotor button off. It kinda looks like the low tension lead is attached to the condenser mount.

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Thanks Nium - I'll make a point to stick to this thread only from now on.

I'll work on a better pic tonight, but if it was wired up wrong (I have not changed a thing) why would it have run well for 4 weeks? That site with the animated pics is great - thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TJR

Now to handle the larger rear wheel cylinders and the 11 dual cylinders.. you need to upgrade to a dual 109 brake master cylinder inorder to have the correct pedal volume.

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Does that mean this one that I just installed won't work?
http://www.roversnorth.com/store/p-4...s-iia-iii.aspx
And if not - what about the single circuit orignal 88 cylinder that I replaced - was it just undersized? It was stopping fine until it spring a leak.

Regarding the stuck bleeder - it is fully stripped, now that I've gotten through the rust I can see that its basically round. I ordered an 88 wheel cylinder before I realized that it was an 11" wheel. So now what do I need - a 109 front cylinder or can I use the 88 cylinder that I ordered?

Nick, just my two cents, but if you are going to attempt this yourself I think you should concentrate on one problem at a time. Regarding the brakes, I think you had better determine whether or not you can break free all of the fittings and nuts. That will determine what parts you will need to get. There's no point in rushing to order a brake cylinder if it's the wrong one. Also if you can't free the brake line compression nut or the mounting nuts, then you will need a new line, fittings, and nuts in order to proceed. Once again, make sure you have the proper wrenches to do the job or else you will be rounding over all of the nuts. Pretty soon you will end up replacing the entire brake system.

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Originally Posted by kevkon

I think you had better determine whether or not you can break free all of the fittings and nuts.

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Well, one can of penetrating oil and blaster and two days later and I still cannot get the lugs off, even with a breaker bar. I think the shop that put the tires on played a cruel joke...

Part of the problem is the crappy lug wrench the came with the truck, it keeps popping off. I checked the auto store and couldnt find one large enough. Going to call RN in the morning and see if they have one...

I'm still calling around to find a local shop but not having much luck. I'd prefer to get it knocked out for a reasonable lump sum rather than me buying tools like an air compressor and impact wrench just to get the lugs off.

Did the brakes go out Nick? I'm asking because I'm sort of skipping ahead in this thread and my first thought is that you should just concentrate on one job at the time. If the brakes still work then I'd say table them (American version ;)) until you get the motor running. Then come back to them later.

As for going to a shop, sure you can go for that option but I wouldn't advise it. These trucks do like maintenance and the sooner you can pick up the steps the sooner you'll be able to see your way though these troubles. Besides, it's all very easy.

The coil won't send a charge until the points open. Of course if the points are not really closing, or never closing you'll never trigger the coil either. I'm thinking that the pitting on the points could be a problem or maybe you adjusted the points incorrectly so here is my advise.

With the keys out of the ignition, pop the top of the distributor and rotor and look at where the lobe is on the points. Make sure the lobe is not at the point where it would be opening the points. So long as that's not the case and the points are fully closed then take a piece of fine sand paper, fold it in half so the sandy side is on both sides, open the points with a screwdriver and then place the sand paper in between the points. Once you've got it in there, you want try and sand the points clean. You may end up just pulling the sand paper out, reopening the points, replacing the sand paper and then pulling it out again. Keep doing that until you are pretty confident that the points are clean. You may need to use a clean piece of sand paper to see if it comes out dirty. Once you see that it comes out clean, you should be pretty close to having clean points.

Next you want to adjust the points. You will need to turn the motor over a little bit to get the lobe to open the points. To do this you want to make sure the parking brake is on and that the truck is out of gear. Next, grab your starter handle and insert it into the front crank position, or if you don't have that just grab the belts. Turn the engine little by little until you see the lobe is opening the points at pretty much the most open you can get it. This is the position you need to have the engine at to set the points.

I can't remember the size that the points need to be set at off the top of my head right now but you can just use the cover of a matchbook as your gauge. Take that matchbook cover and see if it will slide between the opening of the points. If it does, then does it slip through without any resistance (gap is too big)? If you can't get the matchbook cover in there then the points gap is set too small. Either way you find it, you will need to take a small screwdriver and loosen the set screw. Loosen it just enough so that the points will adjust but not so much that the assembly just goes way loose. This is a bit of a fine art and will just help you make the fine adjustments. If you can't get it right then you'll just need a second screwdriver to adjust/hold the points as you take your measurements with the matchbook cover. To adjust the points you will see two small grooves in the body of the points assembly and the base of the distributor. It's just big enough for a medium sized screwdriver to catch both sides. Use that point as a lever to adjust the points as you are opening and closing the points to perfection. Once you've go that right, keep the points in position while you tighten the set screw back down again. Don't tighten down too hard or you'll strip the set screw. Just make it good and snug.

Bingo you are done setting the points.

Put everything back together and make sure all the wires are connected. Be sure you haven't forgotten the trigger wire going from the distributor to the negative side of the coil. I always bump mine off in this operation and it's always the thing I forget. :o

You should be good to go now. At this point we can safely say your points are adjusted and that they shouldn't be the point of your problem.

You can't kill the coil by cranking the motor with the distributor cap off. If it was working before all of this, I'd doubt it's broken now. So don't loose too much sleep over that.

Let us know your results.
:thumb-up:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NickDawson

Thanks Green - the green bible doesn't detail that in the 109 section - is that the standard way to bleed a 109 setup?

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The manual does not detail this becuase it is not concerned with design flaws and instead tells you how to deal with the system as originally supplied.

The problem with the 11" set up is that you are trying to bleed air out of the system at the low point which makes it very difficult to purge the upper cylinder. The art of the game is to make the bleed nipple the high point.

The recommendation to reroute the brake lines is just knowledge from running this set up on a 101 for a few years and now on my 109. It is a common trick, cheap and simple to do and makes bleeding the big drums easy.

If you don't feel comfortable making brake lines the other method is just bitter experience but more of a pain because you have to strip the brakes to do it.

Oops. Just saw the part that you have ordered the new ignition parts. Okay. You can skip that part about cleaning your points. Just be sure you adjust the new ones correctly and let us know how it goes.
:thumb-up:

Quote:

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I'll work on a better pic tonight, but if it was wired up wrong (I have not changed a thing) why would it have run well for 4 weeks? That site with the animated pics is great - thanks

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Sorry Nick, I wasn't sure if you had took the points apart or not. I looked at the other pics of your Rover you've got on flickr.com. The other pic of the dizzy, IMG-0600, made me realize the wire I thought was the low tension lead was just a ground bond wire to the condenser. My bad.

Check that your points are opening it seems like they might not be. They should open 0.014" - 0.016" or as Tim wrote about the thickness of a matchbook cover when the following arm of the points is on the peak of a cam lobe on the dizzy.

I'd doubt the coil is dead. Cranking a few seconds with the cap off shouldn't kill the coil it doesn't have any electronics in it to fry.

To check for spark from the coil.

Turn the ignition on. Have your red friend do his screwdriver thing again , I've done it to check for spark too, and flick the points open with a screwdriver or something similar. You should get a spark. Points are just a simple switch to open and close the connection of the coil to ground.

Your points and condenser look pretty new, by the pics. The points more then likely just need to be adjusted.

Make sure that break in the insulation, of the low tension lead as seen in pic IMG_0600, isn't grounding out to the dizzy body and that the wire inside isn't broken. If it is grounding out. The coil would get really hot by being constantly energized. The coil is suppose to be continually turned on and off by the points really quickly too. Engines run at a few thousand RPM , right?

That crude on the spark plug electrodes inside the dizzy cap, IMG-0602, shouldn't be there. It will inhibit maximum spark from getting to the plugs. Sand it off with a semi-fine or medium grit sand paper. Of course you can compare it to the new cap when you get it.

Glad you liked the auto ignition site I thought the pics might help. If not I felt the animation was neat.

Man I get long winded.

Cheers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NickDawson

Well, one can of penetrating oil and blaster and two days later and I still cannot get the lugs off, even with a breaker bar. I think the shop that put the tires on played a cruel joke...

Part of the problem is the crappy lug wrench the came with the truck, it keeps popping off. I checked the auto store and couldnt find one large enough. Going to call RN in the morning and see if they have one...

I'm still calling around to find a local shop but not having much luck. I'd prefer to get it knocked out for a reasonable lump sum rather than me buying tools like an air compressor and impact wrench just to get the lugs off.

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Try calling a mobile truck tire service company. Their trucks have compressors and air guns. I'd still concentrate on getting it running before getting into the brakes, though.

Every time I'd ready to give up you guys come back with more advice that I'm dieing to try... just leave me, save yourselves! :D

Joking aside, I'm coming around to the conclusion that it may not be our weekend ride again anytime soon and I can live with that I guess - but we do have street cleaning coming up so if I can't move it soon, the city may do it for me. ;) To that end, I'm going to take the common theme here and pick a problem - getting it running. Tell me if I'm wrong, but if I had to move it 400 yards to avoid a costly tow, I could at least use a combo of engine breaking and the hand break to bring it to a stop.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim Smith

Did the brakes go out Nick?

Besides, it's all very easy.

The coil won't send a charge until the points open.

With the keys out of the ignition, pop the top of the distributor and rotor and look at where the lobe is on the points. Make sure the lobe is not at the point where it would be opening the points.

grab your starter handle and insert it into the front crank position, or if you don't have that just grab the belts.

I can't remember the size that the points need to be set at off the top of my head

To adjust the points you will see two small grooves in the body of the points assembly and the base of the distributor. It's just big enough for a medium sized screwdriver to catch both sides. Use that point as a lever to adjust the points as you are opening and closing the points to perfection.


You can't kill the coil by cranking the motor with the distributor cap off. If it was working before all of this, I'd doubt it's broken now. So don't loose too much sleep over that.

Let us know your results.

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This is great info - really builds on what I have learned from talking to the guys at RN and the other posts here. Thanks Tim, et al!

Part of the problem is me understanding what the various parts are - I found some diagrams and now think I know what the lobe is (for instance) and the other part is learning how the system works. Its starting to sink in.

I got a set of feeler gauges so in theory I should be good there. I've also go some super fine wood working sand paper - any difference between that and the automotive stuff?

I've tried moving the belts and they just slip, but hopefully the 1-11/16 socket on its way will help me turn the engine. I'm still not exactly clear what I'm looking for but suspect it will become apparent as I get deeper into it - and of course I'll be asking a lot of questions here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nium

Make sure that break in the insulation, of the low tension lead as seen in pic IMG_0600, isn't grounding out to the dizzy body and that the wire inside isn't broken.

That crude on the spark plug electrodes inside the dizzy cap, IMG-0602, shouldn't be there.

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Wow - didn't even see that nick in the insulation - will get right on it, good eye! Again, goes back to learning more about how the system works...I guess that's the benefit of having to do this myself

Thanks again folks, I'll continue to keep everyone posted.

I can't really help out with your mechanical problems Nick and these other guys have got you covered, but when it's street sweeping time on my street and my truck is down, I put a big note in my road side window glass that says "broke down sorry, parts on order" and they haven't ticketed me or towed me. Of course, they are used to at least one of my Rovers being broke down at any given time. However, your area may be much tougher so use with caution. :p

Nick, The lugnuts on my Rover(s) take a 1 1/16" socket. That's a good socket to have when you own a Land Rover.

There's a thread on this forum about OEM versus aftermarket parts, and I think the same sentiments should apply to tools. Sometimes saving a few bucks on a cheap tool is false economy. So where you ordered the socket from Amazon, that's fine except you have to wait for it and it could be poor quality. Sometimes inexpensive tools work great, sometimes they're junk.

My toolbox has some cheap tools in it, but most are the more expensive brand name tools. For sockets and wrenches... my opinion is that you should stop by a Sears store and purchase Craftsman (certainly not the only option, but most people can find a Sears store near them). That way you've got a good tool, and you've got it now.

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Originally Posted by pisten-bully

Sometimes saving a few bucks on a cheap tool is false economy.

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Yeah - I'd agree with that. I have a full craftsman wrench and socket set that I love - just nothing that big. I've had it since I was like 7 so its likely that I've lost the 1-1/16th if I ever had it.

After remodeling our house ourselves (where is the internet forum for that!?!?) we got good at determining good tools from rubbish.

My amazon order was a get-er-done thing, but there is a rumor that Sears is sponsoring the classic car show in town this weekend and will have tools for sale at a large tent. This could get dangerous :D !

What classic car show???

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Originally Posted by bmohan55

What classic car show???

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x2:thumb-up:

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Originally Posted by NickDawson

...I've also go some super fine wood working sand paper - any difference between that and the automotive stuff?

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I think the proper stuff is called emery paper but lately I've just been using plumbers sand paper. If you're doing a remodel, then I bet you have some of that laying around.

Regular fine sand paper should also work but sometimes it leaves some of the sand behind. Just make sure there aren't any grains stuck in between the points when you are done and you'll do fine.

You also have new points on the way right? Once you swap them in, you should still clean these ones up for practice and then keep them on the truck in case the new ones fail down the road. It's a good to have on board sort of thing.

Well, I got the new points, distributor cap and coil (hey, why not?) installed.
I was able turn the engine just enough with the pulleys and gaped the points with a feeler gauge. Not going to lie, felt pretty proud of myself.

but it still won't start :(

I checked the fuel lines - they are clear and pressurized (IE fuel spurts out when I disconnect them). I thought there might be a blockage in the carb, but when I move the pump mechanism I can see it spraying fuel into the bowl (understanding that my terms may be incorrect).

I had the key on and examined the points, I manually opened them and saw a spark. Glad I had rubber gloves on... so I'm guessing that means there's at least current moving through them.

Any other ideas? now that I'm looking at the old points (and can tell what the "points" actually are) they look almost brand new. Guessing that was never the problem.

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Since I had the day blocked off to working on the rover, I am going to jump back on the breaks. Just to confirm that I'm not crazy, the lugs to come off counter clockwise, right? I've got a longer 10' section of pipe and going to give them hell with a breaker bar and 1-1/16" socket before giving up and finding someone with an impact wrench.

Good job! I thought the installed points looked new. Keep them for later.

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I got the new points, distributor cap and coil (hey, why not?) installed.

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And the rotor button installed too, right? No rotor, no go. :)

Now you need to statically or stationary set the timing (whichever term you prefer). Remember you threw it off in tinkering. Don't use the timing gun.

Once you get the timing set you are going to have to monkey around with the idle adjustment a bit on the carb to get it to idle long enough to warm up to operating temp. Once at operating temp you can set the idle and forget about it.

Have you replaced that torn apart rubber boot on the vacuum advance of the dizzy that is a BIG vacuum leak that needs to be rectified. If you don't have a replacement use duct tape till you do. That should be a fitting available at the local auto parts store in the vacuum fittings aisle/area.

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had the key on and examined the points, I manually opened them and saw a spark

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A spark from a spark plug or from the coil right? Not a spark from in between the contacts of the points?


Cheers