LIFTS--this will get the replies coming in!!

http://www.roversnorth.com/forums/im...cons/icon1.gif LIFTS
Dustin,
Like JeffB, I have tried several combinations on several Rovers and I've come full circle back to the old school original:

HD OME 2" lift, swaybar disconnects, Drop kit in rear, and 265/75-16 Mud Terrain tires. Why? Because it works!!

I have wheeled in some awesome places around the world, competed in Land Rover Trek, several trials courses, completed all of my
LR certifications off road, been off road in the military for over 20 years and I have settled on this combo due to its all around capabilities, affordability, reliability etc. I came to this decision after training under and picking the brains of guys like Bob Burns, Tom Collins, Mark MacDonald (US Camel Trophy team members and trainers)and a whole host of other guys who could leave 99% of us in the dirt(literally) in a totally stock vehicle, and this is the combo that alot of them settle on.

Now I'm not knocking taking a Rover to the extreme(as I have done) and dont want to start an argument over what product is best etc. I'm just saying you need to ride with a few guys who have various lifts etc. and see what you like and more importantly, honestly decide what you want out of the vehicle.

My warning though:
IF THIS YOUR DAILY DRIVER, BE VERY CAREFUL HOW MUCH YOU MODIFY IT!! YOU WILL HATE DRIVING A FULLY MODIFIED ROVER ON THE ROAD!!

Even at my peak in offroading(3 times a month for a full week end) a few years ago, my total time offroad was still less than 10% of my total driving in the vehicle. So once you realize this, you start to see my point. Plus
so many guys put on this big lift and tires, with no protection, winch, mechanical repairs etc.

HAVING A CAPABLE OFF ROADER IS A COMPLETE PACKAGE!!!
LIFT, TIRES, FLEXIBILITY, PROTECTION, RELIABILITY, RECOVERABILITY, TRAINING, EXPERIENCE!!!!

So here is a hypothetical situation, and my recommendation to a person who has a Rover and wants to put money into it and knows(after going as a passenger on a few events) he or she wants to invest in a proper set up and kit that will ensure success!!

1. Have candidate Land Rover inspected by a competent Rover mechanic, and address all the things that need repairing first!!
-in other words, having a car with no brakes, head gasket leaks, no gear oil in the diff(due to a leak), slipping tranny is a big nogo!!

2. Go now and put together a proper recovery kit!! This does not entail going to Walmart and buying a 10 dollar strap. Buy a proper recovery kit:
2-4 3" or 4" x 20' or 30' recovery straps
2-4 D rings
Tree Protector Strap
Gloves/safety glasses
Depth Gage for water obstacles(I use a fiberglass drover stick(6')
Proper First Aid kit
Tool kit/shovel/pick
Choke chains
Saw/Lopers
Hi-lift jack and acc.-know how to use!!(Bill Burkes recovery video)
5 Gallon Water jug
Survival kit for region/weather you will be in
CB Radio/Cell phone
AAA Gold!!!!!! nothing better than paying only $99.00 to get car 250 miles back home!!
See any of the many articles online concerning proper offroad kit, you will find lists of a proper kit(this is just me sitting here trying to remember)
-All of the above goes in a heavy duty box(metal or hd plastic) and gets secured down with HD straps in the rear of the car(you should see what a 35lb tool box does after a car rolls off road--it WILL Kill you!!

3. Now join a club and get some training from competent people on off roading/recover/winch use/tread lightly.
If the person training you looks like he's out of "Deliverance", is drinking a beer while offering advice and holding a six pack in the other hand, or says "f%$ck it, go for it!!" alot, than you are hanging around the wrong off road crowd.
Buy Bill Burkes videos on Recovery/winch use etc and watch and learn. Better yet save some money and attend one of his courses. Also attend a LR dealer event, some are really good, some are soso, but you'll get some experience and meet Rover people.

4. Once you have gotten the vehicle up to par, decide what lift/tires/flex you want. Lets say you go with my recommendation:
-OME HD lift with shocks: $600 with you installing
-Rear drop kit: $150 you install
-Some MT or AT tire of your choice: $500-750(I no longer buy AT tires-too much of a compromise,and are useless if any rain/wet conditions-plus the newer generation of MTs are much quieter, and wear incredibly well.
265/75-16 will fit on RR Classic with the 2" lift, you may need to adjust your steering limiting bolts out a little in case of some rubbing on frame. Disco 1s will need small amount of rear fender trimming(you wont really see if done correctly and touched up with paint)
-Sway bar disconnects(go drive one with out bars and some lift--it sucks on the highway) if you have sway bars. If not prepare for flopsy mopsy!!(my 87 RR had none, my sons 91 has a front only, my wifes Disco has both)
OK, now you've got some clearance and tires, you've taken a big step!!

5. Now we need to protect all that soft underbelly!! In order of precedence:
-Diff and pinion guards
-Steering guard/tie rod protection(try steering with a tie rod folded in half)
-Fuel tank guard
-Transfer box/tranny guard
-Sill/Rocker panel guards(ie rock sliders)
-Steel Bumpers

6. Now you're tired of other folks winching you out:
-Proper winch mount or bumper
-winch rated for 2x you GVWR(some will say this is overkill)ie about 10K lbs
-Proper winch accessories kit
-Maintain your winch and use it properly, respect it as something that can kill you or other people!!

7. A quick note on roof racks-dont overload!!, most racks, much less the roof itself, are only meant to store about 200lbs max-all the crap up there raises your center of gravity exponentially. Remember to figure weight of rack into roof load!!

8. Snorkel- all US spec Coil Rovers are V-8s, so the snorkel is for show only(some will say cold air induction/dust), dont worry I have one too, it looks cool!!

9. Taller lifts-- Here is the deal, easier to buy 2" and decide to build more later (and sell your used 2" components)than to build $5000 in suspension and then figure out it sucks most of the time on the road and try to go back.

10. Always continue to improve your training, use common sense, if you have that funny feeling in the back of your noggin, dont do it!! Dont let people pressure you into doing what doesnt seem right or is out of your ability/comfort zone. Its easier to turn around and go back than have to abandon your vehicle and walk out!!

11. Dont be afraid to ask questions!!!!!!!!!! Buy beg or borrow any of the Bill Burke videos, Camel videos, and get familiar with one of the best resources written, Tom Sheppards "Vehicle Dependent Expedition Guide".

And finally, myself and many of the professional LR guys would rather you turn up with no modifications, proper kit and an open mind than a Rover with 10" lift and a chip on your shoulder!![/

Thanks for the advice. A recovery kit is the first thing I will put together. I have looked into the OME setups and would like to go a little more agressive. I have some decent (for my age) 4x4 knowledge. I restored and modified a 1980 jeep cj7 (6 inches of suspension lift and 35/12.50-16 Goodyear MTRs). I also grew up around Range Rovers. My family has been driving them since before I can remember.
Ive spent hours researching and have talked to a few "rover experts" and this is what I have come up with: I am thinking about running a Safari Gard stage 3 suspension with Fox racing shocks and the 3 link system. The kit that they will put together for me will include driveshafts and brakelines. I was recomended to go with 265/80/16 Superswamper Tsl Radials for the New England mud. I will more than likely be runinng Safari Gard bumpers with skid plates front and Rear as well a rock sliders and a differential guard.. I recently sold another project and I have the cash to do it "right" the first time. I know there will be more things that I will end up buying (guards and such) but I think this will do me for now.. What do you think??

Well that sounds like a well thought out plan. I saw your FL location, but I'm guessing your going to school up north, so the larger lift will pay off.
The Safari Gard S3 kit is well proven and offers incredible flex, I doubt you will find many places that really "stress" that setup. Good that you pushed for the shafts and lines, alot of guys forget everything that goes into a big lift. Your tire choice is of course perfect, Ive run various sizes of TSL's and the are the choice for the sticky stuff.
With the tires you are running, and tremendous capability you will have with this set up, you may end up snapping a drive shaft or two, as yours has the weak ones in it. If you get where you are buying used shafts alot, you'll want to consider upgrading check out: http://www.greatbasinrovers.com
Once I upgraded my RR, I've never broken one since.

You are in a very Rover friendly part of the country, with alot of experienced guys in that region, so join one of the clubs up there and pick those guys brains, I think you'll be close to Rovers North, so use them as a braintrust.
Hope this helps, keep me informed on the progress
Cheers from Bavaria
Jack

Rotary. We have them here at the garage at work, the mechanics love them.



Oh, not *THAT* kind of lift!!! :D

While you are in the research phase check out Equipe 4X4's wares too:
http://www.drakenoffroad.com/

Give them a call, if you are able to you can even try their system out on their proving ground. It is a viable alternative to the SG system IMHO. Worth checking into before you spend the $.

For Heavy Duty axles, I would suggest calling Keith at http://www.rovertracks.com/

He's been producing HD axles for several years AND will be selling an all new hd CVjoint based on the Bobby Longfield superaxles for Toyotas.

I have a 1994 range rover classic with a 3" rover tyme lift and I run 285/75 r16 tires. Things are a little tight but some cuts made things fit O.K.. I was wondering whick axels are in my rover, and how concerned should I be? Should I call great basin rovers now?

Jray73,
I just love typing this awesome reply for 45 minutes and when you hit the submit button the server takes a dump!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, so now you only get short and sweet!!
No, you dont need to go buy now, if you are reletively conservative driver you will probably ok for some time. When you get the money, and you know you'll be doing this for some time, then invest. Just remember as you make things stronger in the driveline other things become the weak links. Some guys say axles should be the sacrificial lambs, some say the ujoints, and I have worked on both on the trail. Remember even if you blow an axle and a diff, you remove the driveshaft, 3rd member(diff) and axles, stick the car in diff lock and drive back home. I once had to drive around with no rear diff for a month(with car in difflock)until I got it fixed:eek: . See what an awesome vehicle you drive!! half the parts missing and it still goes:) !!

Of course, I keep a pretty heavy duty tool kit with me(since I was a Rover tech I know exactly what tools to have in the box, even the weird stuff!!)
Cheers from Bavaria,

:D PS, Oh as I look out the window the snow is coming down like crazy, I'll have to take the detour through the forest to work tommorow!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jray73

I have a 1994 range rover classic with a 3" rover tyme lift and I run 285/75 r16 tires. Things are a little tight but some cuts made things fit O.K.. I was wondering whick axels are in my rover, and how concerned should I be? Should I call great basin rovers now?

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HOW do you use it? Some people can get by on 35s and standard axles...:eek: Are you running open diffs F+R?

I'd wheel it as is now and perhaps save up some $ for some axles form Keith at Rovertracks.

I quote,

"U.S. spec Range Rovers from 1987 to mid 1993 all had 1"/10 spline axles front and rear at which point they were increased in size to 1.25"/24 spline. There was a small change in length of the rear axles with the 1990 models due to the addition of ABS brakes. 1987 models had suffix A front axles, 1988/89 models were suffix B's. They changed again with the addition of ABS brakes in 1990. Constant Velocity (CV) joints also changed with the axle changes. In mid 1993 the front axles also were enlarged to 1.25/24 spline although the CV end of the front inner axle was unfortunately reduced in size to 1.030"/32 spline.

All U.S. spec Discoverys and Defender 90's came equipped with 1.25/24 spline axles front and rear and unfortunately the 1.030"/32 spline CV joints. I say unfortunately because the 1.030" diameter reduces the potential strength substantially."

So I'd wait till you break one or when you feel you will be commited to this hobby for a long time!!
Cheers
Jack

Thanks for the relies. JSLAYER what do you mean when you say7 diff. lock? Is there a switch I don't know of??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JSalyer

Jray73,
Remember even if you blow an axle and a diff, you remove the driveshaft, 3rd member(diff) and axles, stick the car in diff lock and drive back home.

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He has a '90 doesn't he? That means BW t case not LT230, no center diff lock for him.... :( (none for me with my '89 either...)

I run a heavy duty old man emu kit with nitro charger shocks, two inch spacers front and rear and lowered rear shock mounts. the kit is pretty tall, I run 255/85's with rovertym trailing arms, and they don't rub. i would recommend getting caster corrected swivel balls from rovertym. the ride is very stable and makes for quite the capable machine.

I am new to the forum and Range Rovers. I hope to be picking up my first this weekend. What do you mean when you say drop kit in rear. I think you are talking about the shock mount location? Thanks.

Dan

The purpose of lifts is usually to fit larger tires so that more clearance can be obtained under the axles.At the same time,more clearance is gained under the chassis,breakover and departure angles are improved. If the lift is well designed with appropriate changes in shock travel,bump stops the lift can also increase articulation.

RRC with OME 764s rear, unknown progressive wound fronts off an LWB with coil swap, OME nitrochargers all the way around, currently on 225/75's. Sits higher in the front, no boge no sway bars all new bushings. Truck wanders on the road a bit, could be the narrow tires and castor loss. handles great if you can drive, could be sketchy in the wrong hands. id post photos but BB wont let me.