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Thread: Terminology - Sound like you know somwthing

  1. #21

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    I am a retired Rover/Land Rover Cost engineer here in the UK and am well aware of all the vagaries of fixing on the old Land Rovers. The trouble is that the vehicle evolved in the 1940's using lots of parts which have their roots in the 1930's when BSF/BSW was the standard in the UK . When the Series 2 Land Rover was designed in the 1950's all the new fixings changed to what are referred to as Unified fixings ie UNF/UNC which basically copied the SAE standard. So most loose body fixing and the engine changed to unified threads , but the gearbox and axles stayed Whitworth . Gradually in the IIA era more parts, as they were modified, changed, to Unified threads . Towards the end of the S3 there was a move to go Metric as that was becoming the world standard . The 5 bearing crank 2.25 litre engine was one of the first , but you still had a mix of parts using Whitworth and Unified threads . The issue is exacerbated by budgets, or more accurately by lack of budgets! A new model programme using existing parts wont budget to change anything on them and and manufacturing wont have a budget either.
    I came across exactly this at Ford when they owned LR . We were looking to use a Modified Ford Explorer front hub assembly on the LR3, which actually was made for Ford by Bosch in Clarkesville TN . We visited Dearborn and Clarkesville to see for ourselves and noted the wheel fixing were still inch sizes when the Ford World Standard was metric and Rover had gone metric 20 years previously. When we asked why this was the case the Ford design engineer explained that over the years they had tried to move to metric but the production lines made more than one model & the production engineers didn't want different but similar wheel nuts on different models due to the risk of a dangerous mix up. . The new model team would not pay for the work to change the existing model and the existing model team had no budget either , so inch fixing kept being retained, even then the rest of the hub was metric .
    When you have an all new model, at an all new plant, you don't get these issues . That is one reason in the UK and probably the US, that Japanese companies, setting up on a green field site have an advantage over the established manufacturers.
    Last edited by roverp480; 08-17-2021 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #22
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    Dec 2010
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    thanks p80, I like reading the "nuts & bolts" of a issue!

  3. #23
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    Mountains of Western Pennsy.
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    Once you understand that vehicles are designed by engineers but built by accountants all is clear. Engineer: "That assembly requires a 10mm cap screw." Accountant: "I think a 8mm screw will do." It all comes down to the 'Bottom Line'. On the main subject, lets not get down to Morse Tapers and Acme Threads.

  4. #24
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    Apr 2021
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    SF Bay Area
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    @Roverp80: I can totally see it now! That makes so much sense, and is very relatable to other fields, too (happens at my work every day!). I actually can't describe to "non car people" how much of a shell game car manufacturing must be...with all the suppliers and vendors, etc. Each year, the major car manufacturers just redesign the fenders, lights and some plastic bits...but it's the same car as the last 5 years. Or even the same car as a sister company sells, but with different logo. It's funny going to the parts store and haggling with the guys behind the counter:

    Parts guy: "My computer says we don't have a part for that car!"
    Me: "You have it, just bring it out. Ever wonder why you have 10 boxes back there, but 500 car makes in the computer?"
    Parts guy :"..."

    @Jimr: I see what you did there
    ...┌───────┬──,,
    ...|______OD__|__\\_____
    ...d ..__ ......... |... | ..__....p
    └/ | \────┴──┴/ | \─┘≡
    ..../..@........................@

    1973 Series 3, 109

  5. #25
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    Mountains of Western Pennsy.
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    I think we can all relate to the parts store 'Expert' and his computer. Customer: "What do you mean you don't have that part and can't get it?" Parts Expert: "Give me a break, I worked at Mc D's last week!" Many a time I have had to translate for a Parts Expert to get what I needed. I've even gone behind the counter to show them the part they didn't have. One guy said, "If you're going to do that, why don't we just put all the parts out on the floor?" Yes, why don't you?

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mearstrae View Post
    I think we can all relate to the parts store 'Expert' and his computer. Customer: "What do you mean you don't have that part and can't get it?" Parts Expert: "Give me a break, I worked at Mc D's last week!" Many a time I have had to translate for a Parts Expert to get what I needed. I've even gone behind the counter to show them the part they didn't have. One guy said, "If you're going to do that, why don't we just put all the parts out on the floor?" Yes, why don't you?
    When British Leyland came about in the early 1970's , my local Triumph Dealer and the Local Rover Dealer joined forces and put all the parts for both marques in one new parts store and all the staff together as well , which meant I was often served by the ex triumph staff when getting parts and I initially had to point out which parts book to check and how to differentiate between the different models or design changes etc etc. This was well before computers and indeed Microfiche. One storeman did comment to me that he had noticed that when Land Rover owners came in for parts they knew exactly what they needed, and exactly what vehicle they had ,and would soon point out if he had picked the wrong item. there as the Triumph owners often didn't know what model or variant. they owned.

  7. #27
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    Dec 2010
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    158

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    Quote Originally Posted by vlad_d View Post
    @Roverp80: I can totally see it now! That makes so much sense, and is very relatable to other fields, too (happens at my work every day!). I actually can't describe to "non car people" how much of a shell game car manufacturing must be...with all the suppliers and vendors, etc. Each year, the major car manufacturers just redesign the fenders, lights and some plastic bits...but it's the same car as the last 5 years. Or even the same car as a sister company sells, but with different logo. It's funny going to the parts store and haggling with the guys behind the counter:

    Parts guy: "My computer says we don't have a part for that car!"
    Me: "You have it, just bring it out. Ever wonder why you have 10 boxes back there, but 500 car makes in the computer?"
    Parts guy :"..."

    @Jimr: I see what you did there
    sorry vlad, i don't get it, or if i did something what it was........... i'm clueless.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    90

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    @jimr: "Nuts and bolts"...like, "the details"... but we were also actually talking about nuts and bolts. So, it's doubly appropriate. Heh...it's no fun if you have to explain it. Just take credit. It was good.
    ...┌───────┬──,,
    ...|______OD__|__\\_____
    ...d ..__ ......... |... | ..__....p
    └/ | \────┴──┴/ | \─┘≡
    ..../..@........................@

    1973 Series 3, 109

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