first Land Rover????

[J!m]

Love 'em or hate 'em is very true. If its not obvious yet I am in the first category.

The design constraints were not for payload but for air portability.

My mistake. I'm not the expert on "why"; however I have worked on every system of the 101 (against my will) and have to say there were quite a few things which could have been done more intelligently and still work as needed...

The strip down capability was to reduce weight to permit underslung load by the helicopters of the day which were underpowered compared to the current offerings.

My understanding is that they broke down to stack more easily, as with the air-portable 88", to ship more in the same space... I doubt it was to save weight because those parts would have to get to where the tuck is eventually... Did they have all the cab tops and hoop sets in another helicopter for several trucks???

Like all Rovers there are design issues but they are well documented and easily fixed.

Well documented, maybe. Easily fixed? Thad depends greatly on your skill set and bank account...

This vehicle is really no more complex than a series and share a lot of components. As you say - kit bashing - but then look at most British cars of the seventies and you will find the same.

Agreed... No more complex in construction, but I'd rather work on a series truck than the 101... I have worked on both, including the frame-up on my series.

Tyres are easy - Buckshot mudders are popular in the US and if bar grips are your thing they can be had from Denman or Speciality Tires although they are not very cheap.

Mike had the buckshot mudders. He rolled his truck because of them (WAY to bouncy to be safe). They ride horribly, are noisy and not cheap, not to mention no longer made. He now has military surplus Michelin 11.00-16's and they are far superior to the crappy mudders (don't ask how much...). Bar-grips are fine to drive off a trailer onto the show field ONLY. Absolutely useless for anything else; ESPECIALLY a cross-continent expedition. Ask anyone who's tried it, like Shane for example...

Lot of people have used them for trans continental expeditions so the comfort can't be that bad. If you are under 6' (I'm 5'11'' and 180lbs.) and you can put up with a series truck then a 101 should not be a problem.

I HAVE used a series truck for a trans-continental expedition. I will never do it again! I bought my 110 because of that trip! The 101 actually has the potential to ride better than a series truck (and according to Mike his does after several years of tweaking), but I still would not suggest it to anyone thinking of doing a big expedition.

Due to the aforementioned parts commonality ownership costs are not too high compared with many other military vehicles.

I'm with you half-way here. Many of the parts interchange, but an equal number do not. Let's take a look at the cables for the parking brake, high-low range and diff lock for instance... Price any of these lately? and no, they don't interchange with anything else...

If a 101 is what gets your juices flowing there is no need to be any more afraid than buying a regular series truck. Join the club and the Yahoo group and you will find lots of support and a good safety net.

Mike is a member of these groups and still comes to me with problems every trip that cannot be solved by anyone else. At this point, Mike's truck is more custom than stock, and we improve whenever we can, as the stock 30+ year old parts are crumbling into dust as I write this. More parts every day become "NLA" and you are out of luck. PLEEAASE think it through carefully, and if you have zero experience with a series truck, don't expect this to be an "easy" truck to deal with. I still strongly suggest NOT getting a 101 as a "first Rover". You will be put off to the brand for life.

I'm done now. In fact, I'll even refrain from saying "I told you so" if you do decide to get one and learn the hard way...

[greenmeanie]

I love this as we obviously come from the opposite sides of 101s

Two golden rules for the potential owner:
- Join the club as they have a good magazine and are excellent for remanufacturing NLA parts at reasonable prices.
- Patience, money and knowledge will cure all - how it happens just depends on which two you have most of.

I can't defend the designers. It was Land Rover acting in cahoots with the FVRDE so you can expect some things to be heath robinson. The helicopter thing is true. The idea was to fly in the truck and operate it in its stripped condition until another flight could bring in the luxury items. The MOD expects its squaddies to occasionally get cold and wet in the name of protecting queen and country!

For those expensive control cables try looking at local sources first. I understand that many yacht chandlers can have them made up a lot cheaper. Keep part costs down by cross referencing standard parts such as seals, bearings, hydraulics overhaul kits and even the fuel pump to parts available from NAPA or equivalent.

I have a '71 SIIA SWB and a '76 101 GS WW. I have had a spanner on every bolt on both trucks and can safely say I have no preferences - they both have their quirks. I enjoy owning the 101 as it is something different and view this challenge as part of the fun. It is a true statement, however, that there is far more knowledge and support of series trucks in the US which provides a greater safety net for the new owner.

With either truck you either become a good mechanic or a poor owner. The 101 is, after all, an older truck and comparitively simple by today's standards so you don't need much more than reasonable mechanics skills and some knowledge of how automotive systems to start out. No offense meant but 30K seems way too steep for a restoration unless he has decided he needs engine swaps, power steering and all the other bells and whistles in which case I would suggest he bought the wrong vehicle.

What problems was your friend having? There are a few people out there on the www who have been through these trucks and have a lot of knowledge on the problems and fixes.

Either way the fundemental thing for old Land Rovers be it Series or 101 is that for you to enjoy ownership you must be an enthusiast and view their quirks as part of the fun.

Cheers
Gregor

[IIA Lightweight]

For a first truck I would stick to a series>>>>> and when you find a 101 give me a call, I'll take another. Cost and time might be the only true issue, it seems to be a bit more difficult to find partsfor the 101. I'm still looking for a good club any ideas out there?
Does anyone have any idea how many are in the country?
My rankings
best to worst: '69 IIA Lightweight W/ 3.5 dual SUs
'76 101 GS
D90 I do not have a 110
'65 88"
'82 Rover 3500>>>>> (car)
'02 Disco SE7 black, very clean>>>>>>> for sale
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
'02 Freelander by far the worst truck LR built.
But my wife loves it..... so I am lookinng for a rolled over for parts, I'm sure I'll need all of them.
Gooday
David

[greenmeanie]

Researching parts sources is part of the fun. Mechanically it is not a problem but bodywork takes a bit more time.
- Engines are mostly stock Rover V8 and even a lot of Buick 215 parts fit.
- Gearbox is early RR or Stage 1 so parts are available.
- Most electrics are shared with the SIII. The military parts are common with most other military spec land rovers.
- Axles are Salisbury so parts are easy.
- Brakes share a lot of components with a 6cyl 109.
- All bearings and seals can be ordered from SKF and timken through almost any bearing shop.
- The winch is more of a problem but people have managed to rebuild them.
- Carb overhaul kits can be had from Joe Curto in NY.

There are several dealers that have a lot of the unusual parts but you just have to get on the www and hunt them down. If you are having difficulty finding stuff PM me as I have replaced/overhauled most systems on my truck and kept the receipts.

As for clubs there are probably only two that are relevant:
The 101 club and register at: http://www.101club.org
They have an excellent parts remanufacturing and spares stock. Just understand that it is a club run by volunteers and not an on-line dealer. Think ahead and give yourself plenty of time for the order to arrive. I used to use this as a means of building my spares stock so that I didn't get caught out in emergencies. They also have stainless fuel tanks that everyone eventually needs. Just order several months in advance because the welder they use is a one man operation.

The other is EMLRA at http://www.emlra.org/ but they cover all military Land Rovers and are less specific than the 101 club.

If you mean US clubs I don't really think there are any that are 101 specific.

Cheers
Gregor

[redhawk8391]

Can anyone tell me where I might look for a 12 v starter for my 77-101? This 24 volt setup is getting to be a headache! Is the Buick 215 the only option?
Thanks

[greenmeanie]

For 12V any starter off a RR, Disco or Defender V8 should fit. I understand the later ones are better as they are smaller making them easy to mount and they turn the engine over faster giving better starts.

The othe roption is to go to a reduction gear starter such as a Mean Green. I haven't used one but they seem to have a good rep.

Cheers
Gregor

[redhawk8391]

Gregor,
Thanks for the info; please forgive my ignorance, I am not familiar with "Mean Green". Can you please elaborate. Thanks
David

[greenmeanie]

David,
Meangreen starters area an after market unit that uses gear reduction instead of direct drive. They claim more torque but are also quite pricey.
http://www.mean-green.com/products/starter.html

I believe most find a second hand unit of a later model V8 to be a good choice. I haven't manged to kill mine yet but like to have the research in place for when I do.

Cheers
Gregor

[redhawk8391]

Gregor -
Thanks for the info. I am familiar with gear reduction starters. but not that particular manufacturer.
The query re the starter relates to overall problems of having a 24V system. Assuming I will one day actually get to drive this "thing" somewhere other than in & out of the garage, a 24V component failure 3 or 4 hundred miles from home could be disastrous.
If I could find a smaller 24V alternator and delete some of the extensive "plumbing" - I could live with it until assembling all of the necessary components for a total conv to 12V.
All of this conduit makes for awkward engine access. Have not as yet captured a shop manual. I believe there are 3 different electrical systems.
Any comments/suggestions would be appreciated
David

[greenmeanie]

David,
I have heard a couple of people putting in a 24V to 12V converter in the system. This allows you to run a 12V starter and dizzy whilst retaining the 24V ancilliaries. It could give you an intermediary step between 24 and a full 12V conversion.

Cheers
gregor