Red Mountain Rovers

[thixon]

Oh yeah,

well my dad can beat up your dad...and Ralph Nader.

[jp-]

No name calling took place...

My point was simply that the Corvair was exonerated from fault, but nobody wants to hear that.

Thixon, I have a whole bag of "shhhh!" with your name on it.

[I Leak Oil]

Jason, I think that U did get something showed down your Gullet, unless U were in favor of your tax $$ bailing out all the corp.bad guys.

With 100% certainty I can assure you I have never had anything "showed" down my gullet!

I'm also not in favor of the bailout package as it affects our free market too much, and I also don't think anyone here is a "Nader Hater", some of us just have a different opinion....

Jason T.

[Maryland 110]

If I were out driving and got hit by someone in one of these non-DOT legal trucks, I'd sue them 'til they bled out their eyes. Then I'd sue their insurance company for insuring it, whomever sold it to them, whomever inspected it, and so on back to the source. And I'd win. The law would be on my side. If you're in doubt, ring up your insurance agent and ask what would happen in that event.

Mech


***Sorry for the diatribe, but this is a touchy subject for me. I hate seeing dishonest con artists selling unsafe cars to unsuspecting people, especially when there are plenty of honest people out there doing it right. Burns me up...

I have imported a few 25yr old trucks www.dividingcreekroverimorts.com and drive one myself daily. While I agree with a lot that has been said in this thread. I really have a hard time with some of the things said. One of which is the litigeous angle above. I wish we could all import a late model defender for $100 each. I dabble with these as a hobby at night, not as a way to pay my mortgage, but because I love defenders. There is very, very, little that has changed on a defender over the last 25yrs (one of the cool things about them). Most of the safety improvements have happened in the last five years, or instance: ABS, TC, airbags, defrosters that work, etc. The differences between a 1983 110 and a 1998 110 are miniscule. Same steering, brakes, seat belts, seats, suspension. So how the 98 is "unsafe" and the 83 is, is a perspective that I don't understand. The difference is one is a legal import and one potentially may not be, thats it. My 83 has front and rear inertia reel seat belts, disc brakes, and the exact same steering components as a 1999 US spec Disco. Motorcycles go 2-3 times as fast as most defenders, have no seat belts, have the most minimal of safety or emissons requirements and are generally operated in an unsafe manner far more often than anyone in a defender. I marvel @ the hypocracy of that everytime I take my bike for a spin. That someone would "hope to be rear ended so they could sue till the offender bled from his eyes" is in my mind contrary to the culture that many of us that drive these vehicles embrace.

The one aspect of grey market trucks that is giving the entire thing a bad name (and that everyone in this thread seems to be in violent agreement on) are the people who do VIN swaps bringing in Defenders on old series documentation. I have had people who drive these trucks say to me that they are "going to take care of that when the truck is actually 25yrs old". I then explain that can never be done. You would have to export the truck as whatever the hell its titled as and then re-import it as what it truly is to have the proper releases with the correct VIN show up in DOT's & EPA's, Custom's, Carfax etc's data bases. Otherwise it will never be legal. Are there a dozen + of these trucks @ every large event ? Absolutely. Are the majority of them in the hands of enthusiasts who use them for the purpose for which they are intended ? I think so. All of the people with VIN swapped trucks that I have met are fully aware and were not "duped" by a seller but rather wanted the damn thing so much they were willing to take the risk, or do the deed themselves. I recently got a call from George @ RDS, someone I have talked to for hours on this subject. A totaled VIN swap truck was dragged into his place while Customs and the insurance company that covered the truck decided what to do. The truck sat there for about a month. In the end the insurance company covered the claim, Customs didn't pursue anyone and the whole thing was a non-issue.

How any of this has anything to do with Red Mountain Rovers is beyond me. For what its worth I have heard through the grapevine that the proprietor Tim is a good fellow to deal with and is accurate in his descripton of a vehicles condition. This from enthusiasts who have bought from him over the years. Its my understanding he has been purveying used Land Rovers for the past ten years.

Cheers,
Doug

[Leslie]

Not tryin' to turn up a bad penny, lol, but, I thought I'd take a gander at my state's law on such subjects. My original thought was, regarding replacing the chassis on a Series... some of the previous comments in this thread indicate that such is illegal in certain states. (FWIW, there's no such issue here... you can get to the point that a vehicle is unrepairable, and have it disposed of, but, if you can fix it up on a new chassis, go ahead.... if you want to swap a motor, go ahead.... but that's a different tact than what I want to mention here).

I noticed the section regarding reconstructed, specially constructed vehicles, and thought I'd take a look at it. I find the way it reads interesting. From my state's legal code, it says:

Title to a custom-built car for which no certificate of title has ever been issued by the division may be titled as the make, model and year of the manufactured motor vehicle that the custom-built car most closely resembles; provided, however, that the car is intended to replicate the make, model and year of the manufactured vehicle; and provided further, that the title clearly identifies the custom-built car as a replica.

If I read that correctly, what it's saying is......

I could get a new chassis from one of the aftermarket manufacturers (thus never been registered), gather up the needed Rover parts, and assemble it into a vehicle... let's say, to mimic a 1993 Land Rover Defender 110... then I could register it as a 1993 Land Rover Defender 110 *replica*.

Not a specially constructed vehicle, not a kit car, but, it would be listed as a replica. Interesting.....


FWIW.....

[GeoffWillis]

Satisfied customer

I've been watching this thread with mixed feelings. First, I'm a satisfied customer of Red Mountain Rovers. I dealt with Evan and Sean (Brothers) and am 100% satisfied with the way they described the vehicles. I found my 81/83 110 MOD on ebay and was a little nervous buying on line. I called them and Sean did a walk around of the vehicle with me on the phone describing interior/exterior/and under carriage. The vehicle arrived (Had it shipped) and while the top got destroyed in transit, the vehicle was exactly as described. They even split the cost of a new top. They were in no way obligated to do this, but they wanted to do the "Right thing".
As to the re-VIN'ing of vehicles, I've learned a lot about the pitfalls in this thread and hope I've nothing to worry about. While mine is titled as an 81, it's got coil springs under it which puts the chasis as at least an 83. While its possible its just a "Franken-rover", i.e. new frame to replace a rusted out one, its kinda un-knowable. How would one check to see if it were legaly imported? My old series IIa was legal, but I had no importation papers. I was totaly forth right with the DMV and USAA (Insurance co) about my suspisions, but they could not help me tracking down the lineage of the vehicle. Wish that when I bought the vehicle, I knew what I know now about the re-VIN'ing issues, but according the the great state of Texas the vehicle is legal so I'm going to enjoy the heck out of it.
My two cents worth, Red Mountain Rovers has a bunch of neat toys, just DO YOUR HOMEWORK!
Geoff

[OkieRover]

The DOT are a bunch of ball-washing-bastards,..

The DOT may be ball lickers,

Technically it was "ball-washing bastards...."


And I say never under estimate the value of a good ball-wash.



Great thread guys. Geoff's "just do your homework" pretty much covers it.