Just got a 79 Santana...weak injector pump?

[AirmanPika]

OK so first post of probably many. Just recently got a 79 Santana off ebay. It is getting delivered tomorrow. Anyway, per the owner the Diesel Injector pump is weak and needs work. Apparently this is causing the engin not to run at full power. Any thoughts on this? As I understand it, injector pumps are usually fairly solid even at this age so could it be something else common to these 2.25 diesel engines?

If it is the pump, what is involved in replacing them? I've found a couple possible sources for replacement pumps but I've read some things regarding timing and so on. Anoy sort of specialized tools needed? I'm a noob regarding diesel (part of the reason I wanted to get one) so this is all a learning experience for me.

[SafeAirOne]

Which diesel is installed in the '79 Santana?

Diesel shops charge roughly $500 +- a few hundred to rebuild 'normal' 4-cylinder injector pumps. This varies from shop to shop and region to region, but that's about what it was in NH last time I checked.

My first instinct would be to check that there are ABSOLUTELY NO restrictions/impediments to full fuel flow from the bottom of the tank to the injector pump, including tubes, hoses, filters and fuel pumps before I started messing with the injector pump. This is especially so if the truck runs fine at low and moderate RPMs and loads, but lacks power at higher revs and power demands.

[yorker]

IF it does indeed need work you can get it rebuilt easily enough, they are very common.

Quinten Haney
H&H Diesel Performance
qdaddy83@yahoo.com
618-925-1262

Rebuilds the lucas pumps for ~$300 with all Viton seals etc.

see also:
http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55652

[Moose]

I would check the fuel pump first to make sure it is pulling/pushing enough fuel. When I stuffed a Tdi into my 110 and started it, it was way down on power. Replaced the fuel pump and all was well making it a cheap and easy fix. Injector pumps will draw fuel on there own, just not enough.

Brett

[SafeAirOne]

Oh--I re-read that it's a 2.25D. Nothing too fancy about these injector pumps rebuild-wise should it some to that, as Yorker said earlier.

[ignotus]

Before you jump into the big dollar item I suggest you check some other stuff unless you have documentation that the pump is the problem. Things like compression, timing (valves and pump), Injector pressures for opening( if the injector is not opening properly, 35atmospheres, it could cause bad injector timing/lack of fuel). Many shops will check the injectors cheaply.
Does it smoke?

gene

[AirmanPika]

OK well I have the land rover now. Of course now that the thing is sitting here with me it doesn't want to start (it was running when they loaded it into the transport). I have a hunch limited or no gas is getting to the engine as I'm not even getting smoke from the tail pipe. I noticed some fuel leaking from the fuel filter assembly so I swapped out the filter and seals.

Now I'm trying to hand prime the system to bleed it but no diesel seems to emerge from the banjo bolt on the top of the assembly when loose. I primed the system for a good 30 minutes. Does it really just take forever to refill the filter or is this possibly a symptom of a bad fuel pump?

[yorker]

Post some pics if you can- if the Santana differs from the standard rover diesels it will be a big help.

[AirmanPika]

So far the rover seems to match up to a stock diesel series III engine wise. I used a Purolator F50149 to replace the Delphi HDF296. I've been able to follow ine instructions in my Haynes manual without any trouble.


http://reimuchan.com/rover/fuelfilter.jpg

http://reimuchan.com/rover/fuelpump.jpg

http://reimuchan.com/rover/enginebay.jpg

[SafeAirOne]

Presuming there's fuel in the tank:

If you remove the banjo bolt and crank the engine or, if equipped, actuate the hand primer on the bottom of the fuel pump, it should fill the filter and fuel should come squirting out of the banjo hole within 5 to 10 seconds (engine cranking) or maybe 20-30 pumps of the hand lever if the filter was completely dry.

If no fuel is coming out, you need to have a look at everything upstream, starting with the uplift tube in the fuel tank, the fuel line to the fuel pump, the fuel pump itself, and the line to the filter assembly as well as any filters or fuel pumps added before the engine driven pump.

As a side note, make sure you didn't accidentally install an o-ring in the o-ring-sized groove on top of the new filter element, blocking the fuel ports. I did this last week and spent an hour trying to figure out why
it wouldn't prime. There should be NO o-ring installed on the element itself, however, if you did put one there, the fuel should still come out of the banjo hole, so I suspect this isn't your problem.

[AirmanPika]

Thanks, I'm gonna look upstream and see what I find. I feel like the pump is getting little to no fuel. I may just empty the tank to give it a good cleaning anyway. I'll find out how I stand fuel wise. The tank and sedimentor are both rather caked in old hardened diesel and who knows what that gunk could be hiding.

[AirmanPika]

OK another Q. I just cleaned out a massive about of gunk from outside and inside the fuel sedimentor that was located next to the gas tank. Now, one thing I noticed is that I could replace the blank ring with an actual fuel filter if I wanted. I had to get a second filter anyway as I needed new gaskets.

My question is...would there be any advantage or disadvantage to installing a second filter in the sedimentor assembly? I know some rovers were equipped with two filters, but this application has the two filters side by side in series vs having a pump between them. I'm more interested now since the filter that protected the tip of the fuel pickup has rotted away.

[I Leak Oil]

While you're at it replace the fuel lines too. They are probably clogged up too.

[yorker]

replace the filter on the fuel pickup while you are at it.

[AirmanPika]

Already at it. I decided to replace all the old lines as I go. Problem is I can't find a source for a new filter/screen at the end of the pickup tube. The old one was kinda crimped on. I'd just get a new pickup tube, but the tube is built into the sender unit on mine.

[albersj51]

I dont know if it will work on a diesel pick up tube, but its worth a look

http://siteground237.com/~gunsandr/showthread.php?24-Fuel-screen-filter-sock-for-fuel-tank-pick-up-tube!!

[yorker]

Yeah you can just add a sock- buy a modern one and modify it to fit. The old brass ones were soldered on IIRC but you should be able to get a modern one (Saran?) and make it work.

[AirmanPika]

AHAHAHAHA ITS ALIVE!

It kept stumbling at first like before but it seemed to keep trying harder and harder and finally it just started up. Had to purge a massive amount of air from the injector pump but it seems that was ultimately the only thing wrong. Now I'll need to give it a good workout to see how it does outside of the parking lot and go from there.

[AirmanPika]

OK so in general the rover runs now, but I have to crank it forever to get it to go if I let it sit longer than a few minutes. I located a small leak coming from one of the metal lines going into the sedimentor. It is coming from the left line, middle of the U on the very bottom. Its so small that it just slowly seeps so my guess is its just rusted through. I can't find this part on the rovers north site though so either I'm not looking right or its not there. I could just hack it at a point before the leak, but I'd feel better with a new line.

http://reimuchan.com/rover/sedimentor.jpg

[Lalo88DK]

If you cant make or buy another, then cut off the rusty bit until you can fit a new fuel line to the remaining pipe piece.