SIIA distributor; I really need help...

[gim]

Hi folks, first time poster here. Thanks for taking a look.

I have a 1965 SIIA 88 with a relatively new 2.25 petrol engine, equipped with a Ducellier distributor. I recently replaced the camshaft, as the timing gear keyway sheared out of the old one. The timing is set correctly, and the distrubutor seems to be in good working order. Here's the problem: no spark to any of the plugs. Now before you start responding, read on. I have replaced and gapped the points, the condenser, the cap and rotor, the coil, and all of the plug wires and plugs. I have positive power to the coil, and I have positive power to the points when they are open and not when closed, so they are breaking the connection. However, I don't seem to be getting any power from the main coil lead into the cap, or from the cap to the wires, or from the wires to the plugs, and no spark from the plugs. I have checked and rechecked everything I can think of and I simply cannot figure this out. I would really really appreciate any help or advice or suggestions from any of you guys, because I'm at a complete loss here.

Thanks,

Ben

[S11A]

It sounds like you get power into the coil - what is coming out of it? The downstream components are irrelevant if the coil is not sending power to the dizzy cap (downstream = cap, plug wires, plugs).

[gim]

Right, that's what I'm saying... I don't see why it's not getting any power to the dizzy. The coil is new. It just doesn't make sense. power to the points, but not the main lead to the cap.

[Les Parker]

Ducellier woes

What condition is the rotor?
The contact peice has been know to be loose/making bad contact.
Also how is the spring/carbon brush on the dist. cap?
Pse advise

[S11A]

Have you tested the wire from the coil to the dizzy? Put a multi-meter on it and test for continuity (ohms). If infinity or a rather large number, you have a break. If a low resistance, it should at least be somewhat functional.

[Daurie]

Could be a bad coil right out of the box too..

[scott]

i've seen a bad deck to dizzy gound wire cause this, i've seen the condensor to points wire mis-installed such that it was grounding. so check the cheap stuff. but whatever ya do don't complain about it not running...i'm 7000+ miles from mine right now and would kill to be in it running or not

[gim]

ok... The rotor is new, and i've tried 2 of them, and same with the cap. As for the coil, I returned one just because I thought it could be bad out of the box, and the new one is doing the same thing. I don't have and ohm meter, but I do have a continuity tester (light tester) and I get nothing out of the lead coil wire. The only thing I haven't checked is the deck to dizzy ground wire, but the contacts are breaking the connection so I assume this is ok. I just put a new condenser on it and I'm sure it's not grounding. I'm sorry I'm not trying to stump yall but I can't figure it out. Thanks for everything so far, but please keep trying!!

[Jeff Aronson]

I'm a bit unclear on the situation. If you turn the key to "on," and then remove the cap and rotor, and then spread apart the points with a small screwdriver, do you get a spark there?

Jeff

[gim]

Yes, I do get a spark there, and if I connect a light tester to the points when they are separated, I get a light, indicating that there is power. Then when they are closed, I get no light, which is how it's supposed to work, right? Also, Here's something funny: I checked the main lead wire from the coil to the center of the cap, and it didn't make a connection when I tried to bridge it across the battery and the light tester, so I put a new coil lead on, hoping that would fix it, but it's exactly the same. The new wire has perfect conductivity, and still nothing. RRrrRrrRrRGgGHhhH!

[S11A]

...I do have a continuity tester (light tester) and I get nothing out of the lead coil wire...

Just to clarify my understanding of that statement: the way to test continuity in a wire is to:

1. pull it off of the coil and cap
2. then hook one end of the wire to one probe from the tester
3 and the other end of the wire to the other probe

The meter runs a small current through it, and you see the light come on or the meter measures the resistance, depending on meter type. Is that how you tested it?

You say that you "get nothing out of the lead coil wire" when you test it, so by that do you mean that the light does not come on when tested in the manner I just described?

If not, then the lead wire would be bad.

Note: continuity simply means the wire is not broken. If it is broken, then the resistance (measured in ohms) would be infinity, meaning it is not conducting electricity at all. Or a very large number which would indicate that it might not be completely broken but is partially broken or otherwise defective.

I am not sure if the light testers I am familiar with are apprporiate for testing continuity. The ones I know of simply test whether or not there is potential (aka voltage) present.

So I have to ask: are you testing for voltage being present at the wire as it comes out of the coil, or are you testing continuity of the wire itself?

Not trying to bash you for not understanding this (or even implying that you don't), but I might not be understanding what you are doing...

[gim]

No worries, I'm sure you understand this more than I do, I apologize if I'm using the wrong terminology.

Here's what I mean, in case I wasn't clear: I am not using an OHM meter because I don't have one. My light tester is one you can get anywhere; simply a clamp, a wire, a probe, and a bulb that lights up when you have positive on one side and negative on the other.

Now, when I say I tested the continuity of the main coil lead, I clamped the tester to the neg post on the battery, and connected one end of the coil wire to the pos post, then I connected them together, expecting to see the tester light up, but it did not, so I replaced the wire with one that did have continuity (or rather, that made the tester light up, so I had potential through the wire itself).

So I thought that might fix it, but I still have the same problem: power to the points and condenser, with the dist. grounding fine, but no spark, no power, nothing coming out of the coil with the key on, even if I turn the engine over. Is there something I'm missing?

[jp-]

Not to be stupid here, but I would first pull the distributor cap, and then turn the motor over (by hand, or by having an assistant bump the ignition) while you watch the rotor. If it ain't movin, it ain't gonna spark.

I've seen it before. Maybe you left out a spacer that connects the distributor to the cam?

[S11A]

expecting to see the tester light up, but it did not, so I replaced the wire

So it sounds like you had a bad coil-to-dizzy-cap-wire? That should mean that you are getting juice from the coil to the cap? Are you now getting spark from the cap to the plug wires?

Pull a plug wire off the cap and use your test light to see if that is getting spark. If not then the cap is bad.

If it is getting spark, then put the wire back on the cap and pull the wire off the plug and test there.

[gim]

Yeah I thought about that spacer, but I've been watching it turn for days now, so I'm sure it's there (i've seen that done before too, thanks for the suggestion).

That's the thing... I replaced the wire and it's still not getting any juice out of the coil.

I just had a thought... Let me know if I have this right...

(just as a side note, this is a negative earth vehicle. Probably should have mentioned that earlier)

From the ignition, the hot wire goes into the negative side of the coil, then out the positive side (I've tried this vice-versa by the way) to the small black block on the side of the distributor. Then, out of that block comes one wire for the condensor (which has positive power), and one wire which goes to the points (positive), which break the contact when closed, forcing power to the main coil lead, which then distributes power intermittently through the cap to each plug wire.

I just want to be certain that I understand this system how I have understood it for years... It seems to me that there is every reason for the coil to be producing power to the cap, because it has power going into it, but it isn't. Is there something that happens within the distributor that could possibly prevent the coil from firing? Should I return the coil (again) and say that it was bad out of the box?

I can't think of anything I've done wrong, or differently, since I had all of this stuff apart to replace the cam. It's like chasing a ghost... an evil nonsense ghost. I hate ghosts.