Rear Drive Axle Removal

[navydevildoc]

OK, so I am trying to remove my rear drive/half shafts to see which one probably snapped this weekend.

Right hand (short) side came out real easy, a 5 minute job.

The left hand side, however, is proving much more difficult. I have the drive flange off, but in trying to extract the axle I was able to pull it out maybe 3/4 in, maybe 1 in, before it jammed on something. Now I can't pull it out any more.

Before I jump from muscle power to something mechanical to try and extract it, does anyone know if there is a reason why it might not want to come out? Jiggling back and forth doesn't seem to have any effect.

Any tips would be appreciated as always!

[JSBriggs]

The splines might be worn and then have twisted.

Put the drive flange back on and use a pry bar to pop it the rest of the way out.

-Jeff

[navydevildoc]

Nevermind. Some good old lever action took care of it. Put the drive flange back on with the castle bolt, and then used a prybar against the flange.

Popped right out. It was bound up on the section that snapped.

[StX_Rovers]

Hi Doc,

Was the short axle intact with all of the splines at the differential end? If so, you at least know that the long one is the one that broke. Most likely the problem is that when it broke, a small piece has somehow jammed itself in there. Try using the mass of the axle shaft and drive flange to go back and forth several times and that might break loose whatever is hanging it up.

Once you have the shaft out, and you will succeed, you will then want to remove the diff itself. The broken piece is likely jammed in the differential. Find a small piece of steel, maybe 1/4" square. You will use it to drive out the stub from the side that did not have the break. After you have done this a few times you will start looking for a Salisbury out of a later model 109.

Carefully clean out the housing and the differential of bits of broken metal. I advise you to replace both shafts so they are the same age. Still, keep the unbroken one for emergencies. Some time I will tell the tale of having to back my wife's 88 up the hill past the gigantic washout driving on the sloped side of the hill after breaking a rear half shaft in Christiansted. The front wheel would not pull it reliably as facing uphill they would spin and the car would slip towards the 5' deep hole. Turning around put enough load on the front wheels, which were now downhill, that they now gripped. Of course, steering was different. All part of the adventure.

While you are waiting for the new shafts you can complete the cleaning and reinstall the differential. I usually put in a new gasket between the differential and the housing so you might want to order one of those, which I now realize means that you will want to wait to dot eh final install until the parts arrive.

Anyway, this is one of those times where the BFH approach is appropriate.

[StX_Rovers]

Ahh, I see you figured it out. As you discovered, leave the drive flange on, although you will want to break loose the big castle nut before removal.

[navydevildoc]

I was under the impression that the 109 Salisbury was a no-go with the 88 because of how short the drive shaft would become, which would tear apart the u-joints.

Not so?

[leafsprung]

Salsbury is a simple install in an 88. You need to move the spring perches in on the axle casing and shorten the driveshaft by 2 inches. Alternatively you can also move the axle rearwards by two inches and retain the stock driveshaft length. I have 2 88s (with 3 salsburies between them) Good axle.

http://www.pangolin4x4.com/pangolin4x4/projects/ultimateaxle/springperches.jpg

[Cosmic88]

best place(s) to find a Salisbury for use in an 88?

approximate cost?

[StX_Rovers]

best place(s) to find a Salisbury for use in an 88?

approximate cost?
Can't help you on the cost but all S3 109's had Salisbury's. In 1992 I saw a dead S3 109 under a tree on Ambergris Caye in Belize but that is probably not very useful info for you. Seriously, since you are in America, call Ike Goss at Pangolin 4x4. He can set you up. Any good driveshaft shop can shorten the driveshaft. The key thing is to keep the pinion angle the same. Under load, the flange face of the axle pinion and the output shaft of the transfer case want to be parallel.

[navydevildoc]

Well, now I am on to the differential. Removed both axles, popped out the broken piece with an aluminum rod, removed the drive shaft from the flange at the front of the diff.

Undid all the bolts around the diff casing, and have given the housing a few love taps to loosen it up. The diff seems to be loose from all the bolts, but something inside still seems to be hanging it up and keeping me from pulling it out.

So, time for another "How much force should I use" question. Pulling on the diff as hard as I can while upside down under the truck is not doing it. I can't get a prybar or chisel into the gap between the diff casing and the axle. I am contemplating rigging some Rube Goldberg contraption to try and pull the diff out via the drive shaft flange, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something before I went down that road.

Anyone have any tips for pulling the diff? The green bible of course just says "unbolt diff, remove diff" as if it should just slide out. I have already triple checked that I didn't miss any bolts.

:confused:

[scott]

doc it does just slides out. did you get all of the axle pieces out?

[BackInA88]

Aren't there a couple dowels that locate the diff to the housing you have to side'wiggle the diff off them before you can lift it out?

Also be careful that thing is really heavy!

Steve

[navydevildoc]

Yeah, we made sure to remove all the axle bits. I can see right through from one side to the other when looking from the wheel hubs. Only thing visible is the center spider gear pin. Even if there was something there, it's not even coming out enough to be binding on an axle bit. With enough wiggling and brute force we might be able to produce a 1/4 in gap between the diff and the axle. But as soon as you let off on the pressure it goes back in.

We are now trying a come-along from the drive flange to a frame cross member. Even with that it's not coming out.

We are starting to think maybe one of the bearings is holding it in?

:( :confused:

[JSBriggs]

Use the prybar again, in between the 3rd member case and the housing, working from 6/12 o'clock to 3/9 o'clock.

-Jeff

[navydevildoc]

Well,

With the comealong and some good old muscle power rocking it back and forth, it finally popped out.

My buddy and I are taking a lunch and beer break, then it's time to check out the diff and see if anything needs replacing.

Thanks everyone for the advice!!

[navydevildoc]

Ugh... in my continuing bad luck streak, we were able to pull out the diff; but the main gears have rust on them from when it looks like water got into the oil (it had a real milky look to it when I drained it), settled to the bottom of the housing, and then rusted.

It's all surface rust... but I don't know what that means for strength issues. The gear faces all look OK.

So I now have to possibly add diff gears to my already long shopping list of new axles, hubs, seals, bolts, etc.

Anyone have an opinion? Would you try to brush off all of the rust and clean it real good, or get new gearing?

[JSBriggs]

What you want to look for is pitting on the contact surfaces of the gears or on the bearings.

Also look at teh splines of teh axle. Was there any spine wear, or points at the ends of teh splines where the blend into teh shaft?

If you have spine wear, the splines on teh side gears may be worn. If your spines went pointy, you might have a bent housing, which might explain the difficulty in removing the axle and the diff.

-Jeff

[SafeAirOne]

It's all surface rust...The gear faces all look OK.


If it were me, I'd just clean up and inspect the existing 3rd member. If there are no significant defects on the wear surfaces, I'd clean it and run it. If I were really concerned about it, I'd look around for a $50-$100 used/good differential assembly and have it standing by as a spare--They're easy enough to change and used ones are plentiful and fairly cheap--Just ask around.

FWIW, when I replaced the R&P on my front rover-type diff, the parts supplier gave me one with a tiny occlusion in one of the gear teeth. When I sent it back, they sent me a different one with a tiny occlusion in one of the teeth. These occlusions were probably larger/deeper than damage I'd expect from SURFACE rust.

[StX_Rovers]

Congratulations on getting it out!!! :thumb-up: Now go celebrate. :gulp:

If you are getting new hub seals and bearings Rovers North has a kit that is cheaper than the parts individually. When you are replacing the big oil seal in the hub, be sure to replace the seal race while you are at it. The piece on the axle stub where the seal rides is actually replaceable, which is a very nice feature.

For the future, another trick to get the diff loose is to use a floor jack under it to break it loose. Just locate it under the casting, crank it up a little and that usually does it, then lower it ever so slightly so the dowels don't bind, push jack and diff forward (backwards of course if working on the front axle) until the gears clear, then lower away. I usually put a couple of layers of cardboard under the area for two reasons. One reason is to catch the oil drips. The other is that if it does get away from you it is a softer surface for the piece to land on and reduces the chance of nicking a gear tooth.

The other thing to check for is that the backlash settings are all correct. The ring and pinion backlash you set with the side adjusters, and I believe in the spider gears there is a shim between the gear and the diff case that adjusts for their engagement. The ring and pinion backlash you can check without dis-assembly of the differential, you just need a dial indicator. I agree that unless there is pitting the gears are probably fine. The surface of the gears is hardened and the metal underneath is softer for longevity. You will be able to tell if the wear has gone through the hardening. Try to shine a light in and look carefully at the pinion gear teeth as it works 4.7 times as hard as the ring gear.

The floor jack trick works well for installation while you are at it. Of course, I imagine that shell you are holding in your avatar probably weighs much more than a Series diff so you will probably be able to put the diff in one handed but the rest of us mortals need assistance.:D

[scott]

if you're going to look for a used diff (3rd member) know that the front and rear are the same except some of the front may not have a drain plug cause the drain might have been on the axle housing (i think). the 3rd members from a rrc (range rover classic) also fit but their gearing is different so you'll have to replace both front & rear and you'll loose low end but gain cruising speed and you'll have to drill a hole for the guide pins that are on the axle housings. they are cheap. i've seen used 3rd mbrs go for about $50

[Tim Smith]

I don't think a little surface rust will kill you unless there is an obvious failure. Just clean it up as best you can and pack it back in there. Time to start putting money in the change jar for the spiffy new diff you'll probably start longing for in about a years time. :)

This is probably a good reminder to go through all of the fluids like front diff, swivels, steering box etc and replace with new. Moisture collecting in there is going to be a given for a truck that has spend some time sitting.