Red Mountain Rovers

[chester rides again]

My jaw dropped when I saw that Red Mountain Rovers in Birmingham, AL was selling 110's. Specifically a '93 and a '98 that weren't the NAS white truck. Anyone know anything about these guys?

Merry Christmas to all,

Jeff

[Eric W S]

My jaw dropped when I saw that Red Mountain Rovers in Birmingham, AL was selling 110's. Specifically a '93 and a '98 that weren't the NAS white truck. Anyone know anything about these guys?

Merry Christmas to all,

Jeff

The green one looks familiar. Check D-90.com. I think there was a thread on it some time ago.

[Jeff Aronson]

With Td 5 engines it's doubtful that either truck came through LRNA. A Defender 110 is a wonderful vehicle, but I'd sure prefer to have an engine that is easy to work on and easy to find parts for in the US.

Of course, if Santa should drop one down the chimney, I would not reject it!

Jeff

[sayers]

I think that these "110's " could be in the catagory of "gray market vehicles ". If someone is interested I would be extremely cautious in the purchase of one of these, from the fact that you might not be able to get it licensed in your state and then having someone to work on it.

[Carpe]

Illegal...plain and simple

My jaw dropped when I saw that Red Mountain Rovers in Birmingham, AL was selling 110's. Specifically a '93 and a '98 that weren't the NAS white truck. Anyone know anything about these guys?

Merry Christmas to all,

Jeff

If it looks too good to be true...

The 1993 hasn't been federalized (no roll cage). The 1998 is just another mistake to correct the first one (yah-it's a VIN swap...so re-VINing an illegal car just means that the dipstick who looked at it in NY didn't have the sack to impound it and have it chopped to bits). Both: illegal. Three exclamation points and capital letters doesn't make it legal or a good find.

Some folks don't see the issue. For them, I have dozens of blew rae DVDs of the movies that are still in the theaters that they can be the first to purchase for $50 each.

[Eric W S]

The only way to tell if it is a grey market is if it was imported to begin with.

I can buy all the parts needed for a tdi 110 in the states, assemble it, and bring it to the IL DMV. They will issue a Kit Car VIN and title. Same thing as a hot rod.

State titling laws differ, but just because it exists, doesn't mean a law has been broke.

The VIN swap needs to be crushed and owner prosecuted, IMO.

[Andrew IIA]

Just plain illegal as I read the law, but use you're own judgement. Here's an excerpt from the ECR website:

According to the D.O.T.: It is NOT legal to import a vehicle as parts and assemble it in the USA and then register it for road use. This is a crime and is it NOT legal. It is also NOT legal to import parts that constitute a vehicle (such as 1 gearbox, 1 frame, 2 axles, 1 body) this too can be a crime if the intention is to assemble the parts.

According to the States of: Maine, New York, New Hampshire and California (and these are the only ones we called) Registering your Land-Rover as a "kit car" is NOT legal. A kit cat is a vehicle such as Bradley GT that you build on a VW chassis. The manufactures of these "kits" are registered with the D.O.T. and putting together a production style vehicle such as a Defender 90 is NOT legal in any way shape or form. A few companies are currently using this method to build 110s, but they won't last long, and if they checked with the D.O.T they would find out it is NOT LEGAL.

Some unscrupulous dealers will also try to sell you a Defender or other Rover that is built up as a SPCV (Specially Constructed Vehicle). This is NOT a loophole, and does NOT apply to a production based vehicle such as a Land-Rover Defender. The companies using this are in VIOLATION of DOT and NHTSA rules. The shops using this method are classified as "Manufactures" by the DOT, and therefore the Defender or other Rover they are importing/ building would need to meet all current NHTSA and DOT requirements. These requirements would include driver and passenger air bags and anti-lock brakes just to name a few.

For more information on this you can search the DOT's web site. They have copies of the actual letters written to these fly-by-night operations explaining to them that they are in violation.

For more info than you want to know: http://www.eastcoastrover.com/imports.html

Regards, Andrew
63 SIIA 88"

[sayers]

Thanks Andrew IIA

[dcwhybrew]

Merry Christmas everyone!

I bought an LR3 from Red Mountain Rovers, back in November. The sale went very smooth, but their follow up on some items was less than desired. They got the vehicle to me just fine - very easy transaction...however they did not send it with paper work, and the paper work they did send wasnt as orderly as it should have been, they didnt transfer the title correctly and did not list my name correctly. I am not sure I would deal with them again, I would have to think about it.

[Eric W S]

Just plain illegal as I read the law, but use you're own judgement. Here's an excerpt from the ECR website:

According to the D.O.T.: It is NOT legal to import a vehicle as parts and assemble it in the USA and then register it for road use. This is a crime and is it NOT legal. It is also NOT legal to import parts that constitute a vehicle (such as 1 gearbox, 1 frame, 2 axles, 1 body) this too can be a crime if the intention is to assemble the parts.

According to the States of: Maine, New York, New Hampshire and California (and these are the only ones we called) Registering your Land-Rover as a "kit car" is NOT legal. A kit cat is a vehicle such as Bradley GT that you build on a VW chassis. The manufactures of these "kits" are registered with the D.O.T. and putting together a production style vehicle such as a Defender 90 is NOT legal in any way shape or form. A few companies are currently using this method to build 110s, but they won't last long, and if they checked with the D.O.T they would find out it is NOT LEGAL.

Some unscrupulous dealers will also try to sell you a Defender or other Rover that is built up as a SPCV (Specially Constructed Vehicle). This is NOT a loophole, and does NOT apply to a production based vehicle such as a Land-Rover Defender. The companies using this are in VIOLATION of DOT and NHTSA rules. The shops using this method are classified as "Manufactures" by the DOT, and therefore the Defender or other Rover they are importing/ building would need to meet all current NHTSA and DOT requirements. These requirements would include driver and passenger air bags and anti-lock brakes just to name a few.

For more information on this you can search the DOT's web site. They have copies of the actual letters written to these fly-by-night operations explaining to them that they are in violation.

For more info than you want to know: http://www.eastcoastrover.com/imports.html

Regards, Andrew
63 SIIA 88"

Interesting. I did not know that about kit cars and the DoT. Learn something new everyday. Like take anything the DMV says and confirm it.

Ask for and confirm DoT and Importation paperwork if it is under 25 years old. Legal trucks will have the right paper form the registered importer. Without it it's just scarp waiting for a crusher.

So by reading of the law, wouldn't converting a 90 to a 110 be illegal as well? Or modernizing a 83 that is legal to import into a 2008 MY as well?

In any event, I'd rather restore a 109 than build a 110.

[greenmeanie]

An addition to the above. ANY imported vehicle should have the correct paper trail with it no matter how many owners it has passed through in this country. As an example, in eight years of having my 101 in this country I have had to prove its legal import status at least 6 times to the AZ DMV even although they should have traceable records.

Just because it is over 25 years old when you buy it does not mean it was originally brought in legally and there is no pleading ignorance as a defence. As an example there was a nice blue 110 on ebay last year, 1983 V8 with LT95, that had my interest but it turns out when you started running the numbers based on the seller's commentary it had been brought in early. On questioning he disclosed that it was actually registered as a '74 109. Even although it was now 25 years old it still was not legal and, as the import paperwork was fraudulent, it never could be.

Caveat emptor. Like the poster above I prefer to stick with leafers and ended up with a fun NADA 109 to build.

[Oscar]

Ask for and confirm DoT and Importation paperwork if it is under 25 years old. Legal trucks will have the right paper form the registered importer.

Don't have to be a registered importer. Private individual can import. (I am, I did.) Do save the paperwork though. First titling was smooth. Registration renewal on line just like every other vehicle I have....(PA)

[Eric W S]

Don't have to be a registered importer. Private individual can import. (I am, I did.) Do save the paperwork though. First titling was smooth. Registration renewal on line just like every other vehicle I have....(PA)

Quite true!

Registered importers come into play when you want to bring in a younger vehicle for the federalization process. Say the 959 porsche that Gates had done...

[yank]

I think Gates crashed that 959 shortly after.

[thixon]

I think Gates crashed that 959 shortly after.

It was impounded for nearly a decade and a half by customs in seattle. During that time, Gates and a bunch of other car collectors began working to have a law passed allowing certain cars of "interest" to be imported for show and display. The law was passed during Clintons reign. The use of these types of vehicles is extremely limited, and driving on public roads in not one of the approved uses. Seems like I saw the car in Vegas for sale a number of years back. Its red if I recall.