2.5 n/a diesel

[GeoffWillis]

Hey folks, a few questions about my engine. I've started tearing down my 2.5 n/a diesel to have the injection pump rebuilt and have some problems. I've used the following link to guide my efforts, but I'm stuck on a few details.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=18997

THANKYOU Les Henson!!!
The link below shows the current state of my tear down; Radiator, fan, and water pump removed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31277813@N06/3969725817/

Now the questions:
1) I'm about to break the crankshaft pulley nut loose and want to make sure I've got things aligned correctly. Is it just a simple matter of removing the timing cover and aligning marks on the crankshaft gear and injection pump gears? The manual talks about aligning marks on the flywheel but I see no access point to the flywheel to do such an alignment.
2) Provided I can get everything "Lined up" and remove the injection pump, get it rebuilt ..., what timing issues do I have to worry about throughout the process?
Sorry to take up so much room,
Geoff

[Moose]

...The manual talks about aligning marks on the flywheel but I see no access point to the flywheel to do such an alignment...
Geoff

Geoff, there is a rectangular cover on the flywheel housing on the right side of the engine, near the top. Look down below the fuel filter mounted on the bulkhead. Remove the two screws securing the cover, and inside you will see the flywheel. You will need someone to rotate the engine while you look for the timing marks to come around. Just above that cover is a plug. This is where you are supposed to insert the timing pin that "locks" the engine into position for proper timing.

There is a tool that you can use to hold the injector sprocket in place while you change the pump but I think they are pretty pricey.

Brett

[GeoffWillis]

Geoff, there is a rectangular cover on the flywheel housing on the right side of the engine, near the top. Look down below the fuel filter mounted on the bulkhead. Remove the two screws securing the cover, and inside you will see the flywheel. You will need someone to rotate the engine while you look for the timing marks to come around. Just above that cover is a plug. This is where you are supposed to insert the timing pin that "locks" the engine into position for proper timing.

There is a tool that you can use to hold the injector sprocket in place while you change the pump but I think they are pretty pricey.

Brett

Thanks Brett, was hoping somebody would reply. I located the inspection plate where the timing marks on the flywheel align with an indicator. I didn't take it off as there appears to be a gasket there and didn't want to destroy it till I know I need to go in there. Above that is the plug where I assume the special Pin goes to lock the flywheel in place. I see that there is another special tool that can be inserted into the injection pump itself to ensure alignment. You are right, they are expensive, but are they necessary to do the job right? According to the manuals, by locking the flywheel, and the injection pump, and aligning the marks on the crankshaft gear and the injection pump gear all should be well??? Its funny that nobody ever mentions these tools while discussing replacing the timing belt, I'm just trying to figure out how they do it without these special tools, or should I bite the bullet and buy them. If they are needed, any recommendations as to someone who sources them? I found them in the UK at difflock.com, but was wondering if they are available locally. Thanks again.
Geoff

[Moose]

I bought the tools from the UK and mine came in a set that cover the 2.5 NA/turbo, 200Tdi and 300Tdi. Cost about $100 I think it was. I have two out of the three engines so figured it was money well spent. Not sure who might have them locally, but of course, you could check with Rovers North

However, you can make your own flywheel locking pin fairly easily.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
From the Haynes manual...

The Land Rover special tool for this purpose is LRT-12-044. Special flywheel locking tool can be improvised by obtaining a spare flywheel housing blanking plug, and accurately drilling a hole through its centre, to accept a 3/16 in twist drill

17) Unscrew the blanking plug from the timing hole in the upper right-hand side of the flywheel housing.

18) Screw the flywheel locking too into the timing hole. Do not engage the locking tool centre pin at this stage.

19) Remove the timing belt cover as described in Section 6.

20) Using a suitable tool on the crankshaft pulley bolt, turn the crankshaft until the timing dots on the camshaft and fuel injector pump sprockets are exactly aligned with their respective timing arrows cast into the timing belt housing.

21) The flywheel locking tool centre pin should now slide easily into engagement with the timing slot in the flywheel.

22) If the crankshaft is inadvertently turned beyond the TDC position, do not turn the crankshaft back - continue to turn in a clockwise direction until the sprocket timing marks are again in alignment, and the locking tool centre pin can be fully engaged with the flywheel slot.

23) The engine is now locked with No 1 piston at top dead centre.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

One thing to note is that even though it's called a flywheel locking tool, it must not be used to lock the crankshaft for undoing the crankshaft pulley bolt. I know some one who tried this and the pin is not strong enough to hold the crank while reefing on the bolt.

The tool for locking the injection pump pulley is basically a rod 5/16 X 3 1/2 inches which simply slides into a hole in the pulley once it is properly aligned. (at least that is how it works with the 300Tdi - I haven't gotten to that point on the 2.5NA yet but I think it's the same)

But I guess this only applies if you are just doing the timing belt. You are removing the injector pump, so no reason to lock the pulley.

Anyway, hope some of this info is of use to you.

Brett

[GeoffWillis]

Thanks Brett, all good info. Pretty cool about making the flywheel alignment pin from a spare blanking plug. I'll probably buy the kit anyway, but I guess its gone up in price as the cheapest I've found it is about 140 pounds ($226). Since the whole point of this is to get the injection pump rebuilt, I assume I can use the pump lockin tool when it comes back to align the pump and reinstall it in the correct position. I guess you make a mark on the case of the pump and back of the timing housing to help reposition the pump. In locating the flywheel access point, I noted that it's just plain hard to get at. I can remove the plate and timing tool plug from below, but sighting/aligning from the engine bay. It looks like if I removed water separator on the fire wall, and associated plumping to/from the injection pump/injection rail that I could have easier access. This brings up another question. All of the lines to/from the water separator to injection pump, and return to the tank are a real hard plastic that looks brittle and susceptible to vibration cracks. Are they hard by design, or just old and need to be replaced? I find it odd that nowhere are there any banjo/hose clamps keeping these lines from leaking. They do appear to leak a bit, is this common or does it warrant replacement?
Thanks,
Geoff

[Moose]

Geoff, you adjust the timing on those engines by actually rotating the injector pump a little bit, so yeah, I think you should mark things before removing the pump.

The 2.5NA isn't in my truck anymore so I can't have a look, but I don't remember it being too difficult to get to and see into the timing cover. A little awkward yes, but doable, and from the top if I recall correctly. I don't remember, is your truck LHD or RHD? Also, the water separator you mention I think is the fuel filter. Mounted on the bulk head right? The sedimentor (water separator) is, at least on my 110, mounted back beside the fuel tank.

All my fuel lines were the hard plastic as well. I believe they are all this way from the factory. My 300Tdi engine came with hard plastic lines too but I ended up replacing the line from the tank to the fuel pump and the return line with rubber hose, AND clamps. No leaks at all now.

Brett

[GeoffWillis]

As usual thanks Brett. Mine is left hand drive but doesn't really matter here, and I did mis-speak on the fuel filter/sedimentor. I was just curious about the hard plastic lines as they sure look like they leak. Still having trouble busting the crankshaft pully bolt loose as the method of using the starter and a long wrench braced against the frame doesn't seem to have enough torque. I've got a 5' pipe/breaker bar but putting it in gear and holding the brake still leaves a lot of slop in there, but I'll figgure it out! I do love this truck, having the time of my life out in the garage now that the temp is below 100!
Geoff

[Moose]

I had the same problem getting the nut off the front of the crank on my 88 once. What worked was actually placing the socket/wrench on the nut with the handle/bar about a foot from where it was braced against the frame. When you hit the starter, the bar swings against the frame, stops dead, and with luck, the nut breaks loose. I put a piece of wood at the frame rail where the bar hit just to protect the frame. Like I said, this worked for me but it is a bit of an extreme measure and great care must be taken. If the rad and fan are removed and out of the way, so much the better.

Brett

[GeoffWillis]

I had the same problem getting the nut off the front of the crank on my 88 once. What worked was actually placing the socket/wrench on the nut with the handle/bar about a foot from where it was braced against the frame. When you hit the starter, the bar swings against the frame, stops dead, and with luck, the nut breaks loose. I put a piece of wood at the frame rail where the bar hit just to protect the frame. Like I said, this worked for me but it is a bit of an extreme measure and great care must be taken. If the rad and fan are removed and out of the way, so much the better.

Brett

You know, I tried just that (Except for the block of wood), and the thing wouldn't break loose, just kinda shook in the engine mounts. Maybe a weak battery, but it was fresh of the charger. BUT, it raises the obvious question of when I get the thing off, how the heck am I going to put it back on??? Eventually I'm going to need to torque it back down to 200ft/lb?? I just bought a big strap wrench, and breaker bar, is that how you re-attache after doing the timing belt? I saw a tool on difflock.com that locks the crankshaft pulley, but it only fits a 31 mm crankshaft bolt and mines' a 41mm. I guess I could make something (Always wanted to buy a band saw...) but I would figure that something other than a big ole strap wrench would be available. Just waiting for my kid to come by and give me a hand.
Geoff

[Moose]

Yeah Geoff, to tell the truth, mine didn't just fall off either. I basically had to let the breaker bar swing from one side off the chassis to the other. I guess it built up a larger enough head of steam that the sudden stop is what cracker the bolt loose. That is also why I figured the block of wood might be a good idea.

To tighten the bugger back up, I had to nose the truck up against the corner of a brick wall, put it in gear and then start reefing. Don't know if I got it tight enough, but the petrol motor has a lock tab too, so I didn't sweat it too much.

After doing the timing belt on the Tdi engine, (engine was on a bench at the time) I had to wrap several ratchet straps around the crank pulley to keep it from turning. That bolt is supposed to be crazy tight. Couldn't get it to spec tight because it kept slipping, but it is really tight. I check it once in a while just to make sure, and it is not coming loose.

Brett

[GeoffWillis]

Moving ahead

Glad to hear how much of a bugger yours was, I thought I was just whining! Pretty clever about nosing the truck against a brick wall, I wouldn't have thought of that. Last night I made a cardboard template of a tool to lock down the Crankshaft pulley by bolting this tool to the pulley, and bracing the tool against the frame. I took that template to a machine shop today and they are going to give me quote on making the tool, I've never done that before, pretty cool! Kind of a neat shop, they had pictures on the wall of Speed Week at Bonneville salt flats last month and have the title "Worlds Fastest Corvette, in its class) of 230 mph!!. You meet the nicest people owning a landrover!!
I'll post a picture of the tool when I get it. Thanks for the input. I have to remember that the real purpose is getting the injection pump off, I'm just having trouble getting to it!!!!.
Geoff

[larry2a]

Hey folks, a few questions about my engine. I've started tearing down my 2.5 n/a diesel to have the injection pump rebuilt and have some problems. I've used the following link to guide my efforts, but I'm stuck on a few details.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=18997

THANKYOU Les Henson!!!
The link below shows the current state of my tear down; Radiator, fan, and water pump removed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31277813@N06/3969725817/

Now the questions:
1) I'm about to break the crankshaft pulley nut loose and want to make sure I've got things aligned correctly. Is it just a simple matter of removing the timing cover and aligning marks on the crankshaft gear and injection pump gears? The manual talks about aligning marks on the flywheel but I see no access point to the flywheel to do such an alignment.
2) Provided I can get everything "Lined up" and remove the injection pump, get it rebuilt ..., what timing issues do I have to worry about throughout the process?
Sorry to take up so much room,
Geoff

#1 I just did a timing belt replacement not too long ago...and I just lined up the marks inside the timing belt casing as stated in the manual. I did not reference to the flywheel marks. Except for a puller to pull the crankshaft pulley out, and a torque wrench, everything else was just basic metric tools. Just make sure you slowly turn the crankshaft pulley nut by wrench a few rotations after you think everything is set, just to make sure your valves are not hitting the pistons.

#2 On other brand diesels, I just installed the pump and lined up the marks. On the LR engine, I am not sure...but for some reason you are off, just rotate the pump pulley one rev and you should be spot on.

[GeoffWillis]

Thanks for the info. I've finally gotten the timing cover off, it took almost a month! I did have a special tool made to remove the crankshaft pully, but now I can get to belt/injection pump etc. I can see the arrows mentioned in the manual to line everything up so I hope to get the pump removed and belt replaced this weekend. I really hope to get this done and get the truck back on the road, the weather is just perfect and I miss the smell of diesel. I also bought a new lift pump so when all is done it should run great.
Geoff

[Les Parker]

Any news, Geoff?
Hope the cold turkey on lack of Deisel fumes has not sent you over the edge.....

[SafeAirOne]

Ha...That crank pulley bolt can be a pain... I replaced my timing belt last year and removed the bolt using the "crank the engine with a breaker bar on the bolt" method which worked fine. When it came time to put it back on, I beat the heck out of the breaker bar with a ball peen hammer to tighten the bolt.

6 months later, as I'm cruising down the highway, I hear a loud clunk under the rover, but no unusual indications otherwise. Nothing noted on a casual inspection at my destination.

On my way home that night, the charge light comes on a half mile from my house. I pull over to find the fan belt is missing, and the crank pulley has slid halfway off the crank. Now I know what that clunk was.

I eventually squirted blue loc-tite all over the replacement bolt and ball peen hammered it on again.

Just last night, I removed the same bolt to tear down the engine for a complete engine rebuild and I had to use an electric impact driver to get it off.

LESSON LEARNED: Use generous amounts of loc-tite when installing this bolt, not just your usual lilttle spot of it.