what were they thinking?

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  • Alaskan Rover
    Low Range
    • Apr 2010
    • 54

    what were they thinking?

    EDIt : looks like I have more than a few typos to change...but can't put them to rights until I get back to a REAl keyboard.

    Not bad for typing 'blind, though...on a 3.5 " touchscreen !!


    ok...here are a few questions pertaining to our esteemed and venerable Series and xdefender vehicles. Sorry if there are a few typos, but i am writing this 'blind' as it were from a too small smartphone touchscreen....something FAR more annoying than ANY greasy work on a Series!


    #1
    why didn't rover put in 6 or 7 digit odometers? they must have realized that old rovers would eventually see numbers, like mine, in the HUNDRERS of thousands of miles, with some in the millions.

    #2
    Why did they not go ahead and put rubber or plastic spacers between All places where the aluminum touches steel?

    #3
    Since a polished paint-free rover looks so cool, why did they not go ahead and have paint-free as a option from the factory? A decade of previous use of the exact same Birmabright as skin on many different commercial planes had already shown that not only does it not need paint, but in fact looks good polished?

    #4
    Why in the world did they EVER do away with the sliding windows and the two-part, iconic windscreen? the sliding windows are handy as all get out...especially when offroding in technically difficult terrain. I could slide open a window and close it again before a Defender even has their window 1/3 way down. great for inspecting rocks etc beneath the vehicle . An old-fashioned turning vent would have been great as well, but maybe negated by the forward bulkhead vents.

    Not long ago, I put a rock through my windshield...but since it was a divided windshield, I simply exchanged the broken drivers windshield with the unbroken passenger windshield. When I finally got back to the shop, I only had to replace one side.

    they did away with this great feature with the Defender....Why?

    #5
    they also did away with nearly all the galvanizing of steel on the Defender...the only steel galvanized on Defenders is the front bumper!! Why? A painted steel section is not as rust-free as a galvanized section. I've seen many Defenders in Europe with rusted painted steel body end cappings. this was a nod to cost-cutting (as were many other changes from the great Series and Stage One vehicles ) that NEVER should have happened to Rover's primary icon.

    #6
    About galvanizing....why did they not just galvanize the entire frame At the factory...and put proper drainage in the frame? the Series/Defender box ladder frame is amongst the very strongest frames in the wolrd...but unprotected with galvanizing, they soon went 'wonkey' in half the time that non-boxed frames did. Didn't Rover realize that many of their vehicles would be used in salty enviroments...either by way of salt on the winter roads or salt in the coastal air?

    Many owners would have been glAD to pay an additional premium when brand new for an already hot-dipped galvanized frame.

    ----

    Now I know a potential reasoning may gave been ''Designed Obsolescence''...the bean counters wouldn't like the thought of a vehicle that lasted 75 years or more...and who would exfhange their rover for a new one if they literally lasted forever? they'd just rebuild or replace the drivetrain as needed and continue in the very same chassis/body!!!

    hut wasn't that longevity the eventual INtENt of the Wilkes brothers...once they realized what an ingenious and long-lasting their design was? So they should gave in the least given it anti-bimetallic reaction spacers and a galvanized frame to match their galvanized bumpers, cast iron hinges and galvanized windshield frame and end-cappings.

    Or DID they, in fact, have somewhat of a 'Designed Obsolescence' idea all along. Just less obsolescence than the other cehicles..enough longevity to keep the customers and their families coming back generation after generation...but NOt enough to have their customers drive a single old land Rover for their whole lives wnd in the long-run spend literally tens of thousands of dollars (outside the coffers of Rover Corporation) to keep their vehifles runniny into the recades and decades.

    little did they know!!!
    1970 Series IIA 88".,...the REAL Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
  • mearstrae
    5th Gear
    • Oct 2011
    • 592

    #2
    #7. Why is the very wire they use crap?
    #8. Why are the plastics used crap?
    #9. Why is the whole electrical system crap?
    #10. Why are problems called "Character"? [And laughed about, and not called niggling troubles?]
    #11. Why in the world do we spend mountains of money on these things? [If our everyday cars acted like these, we'd burn them to the ground in a fit of passion...]

    '95 R.R.C. Lwb
    '76 Series III Hybrid 109
    '70 Rover 3500S

    Comment

    • RNZack
      Administrator
      • Sep 2011
      • 426

      #3
      #12. Why don't they bring the Defender to the US?
      #13. Why don't they offer any of their amazing diesel engines in the US?
      #14. Why did they sell the Freelander?

      Comment

      • disco2hse
        4th Gear
        • Jul 2010
        • 451

        #4
        Most are easily answered: British Leyland.

        One of the worst con jobs of all time.
        Alan

        109 Stage 1 V8 ex-army FFR
        2005 Disco 2 HSE

        http://www.youtube.com/user/alalit

        Comment

        • crankin
          5th Gear
          • Jul 2008
          • 696

          #5
          15. Why in the world did the put the timing marks on the driver side front but the distributor on the passenger side back.


          Birmabright Brotherhood

          Take the vow, join the brotherhood!


          Clint Rankin - 1972 SIII SWB

          Comment

          • yorker
            Overdrive
            • Nov 2006
            • 1635

            #6
            Originally posted by disco2hse
            Most are easily answered: British Leyland.
            THIS or mostly this. And the fact that Land Rover usually thought their fiercest competition was Land Rover of 5 years ago, new vehicle sales were always competing against their used trucks. What good to them is a vehicle you buy once and keep for 40 years? Its like the Swing-A-Way can opener, I bought one 15 years ago and it gets used nearly every day and still works great, I have no reason to ever buy another one. So what happened to them? They sold out to the Chinese because they need to make more profit per unit.

            Polished alloy looks good but it doesn't take long for salt to raise hell with it. Corrosion is the biggest killer of airframes out there. Add salt and it just gets silly the amount of fancy chemicals and treatments and preventative maintenenace they throw at a naval aircraft. Now add a steel bulkhead to the mix...

            Back when these vehicles were made most people didn't drive 100,000 miles. It was a BIG deal if you had a vehicle that had gone that far. I've owned quite a few Series Land Rovers and they all were bought 25-30 years old and with ~55-80k on them they all also had junk frames and HAD had junk frames for 10-15 years before I bought them. I honestly never seen a series Land Rover in its first life with >100k on it. Sure there are a few out there but most that have exceeded that have had extensive rebuilds somewhere along the line or are owned by rabid enthusiasts- not at all representative of your average original owner.

            One piece windscreen is fine, if it brakes you are still only replacing one piece of glass. They made it taller too so it is a little better to see out of. Why did they make the original one so short that you have to scrunch down to the steering wheel to see any traffic lights? Yeah they probably were all street side traffic lights back then...

            Roll up windows are fine especially if the drive ratio is good. The sliding windows suck to drive with, you can't really put your arm on the window sill and the old window tracks will give you tetanus. You can't crack open the front side window to get ventilation or ash your cigar ( I know you are not "supposed" to do that thanks Smokey the Bear...). The triangular vent windows on other vehicles work better in those respects. Sure we have scuttle vents but so did some of them, and the others had the windshields that opened...

            No kick vents on the floor mean your footwells turn into little ovens in the summer, at least on the exhaust side. Some sort of ventilation down there would have been appreciated and was offered on the competition.

            All in all Land Rover did ok, but it could have done a lot better had it had the $ and inclination. The Stage 1 should have been introduced in 1965 and SHOULD have been offered here in both wheelbases with Salisbury rear axle- that would have sold like hotcakes here.
            1965 SIIa 88",1975 Ex-MOD 109/Ambulance, 1989 RRC, blah, blah, blah...

            Land Rover UK Forums

            Comment

            • mongoswede
              5th Gear
              • May 2010
              • 757

              #7
              When they started building rovers plastic had yet to be a main stream product. They did put rubber and I think leather (yes/no?) between some of the steel and Aluminum but after 40 years it pretty much doesnt exist.


              Why did they feel that only 2 fuses would be sufficient to protect the entire wiring system?

              Comment

              • mongoswede
                5th Gear
                • May 2010
                • 757

                #8
                Originally posted by mearstrae
                #7. Why is the very wire they use crap?
                #8. Why are the plastics used crap?
                #9. Why is the whole electrical system crap?
                #10. Why are problems called "Character"? [And laughed about, and not called niggling troubles?]

                Why do die hard enthusiasts get all bent out of shape when we build modern solutions to these age old problems

                #11. Why in the world do we spend mountains of money on these things? [If our everyday cars acted like these, we'd burn them to the ground in a fit of passion...]

                '95 R.R.C. Lwb
                '76 Series III Hybrid 109
                '70 Rover 3500S
                ...

                Comment

                • TedW
                  5th Gear
                  • Feb 2007
                  • 887

                  #9
                  Regarding points 2, 5 and 6:

                  I doubt that LR originally expected their vehicles to last longer than any other vehicle of the era: By the time it became clear that some of these trucks were hanging on longer than expected, the die was cast as far as production techniques were concerned.

                  One of my major peeves is all the wiring (in high-abrasion places like wheel wells) that is exposed to the elements. I made wheel well liners out of industrial rubber sheeting right after I bought my truck in '91 - they have made all the difference in keeping rust and decay to a minimum. Much quieter, too.

                  Comment

                  • Broadstone
                    2nd Gear
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 216

                    #10
                    Why did take the military to realize it is not practical to remove a transmission through the passenger side door? And why was this not changed on civilian models much sooner?
                    1973 NADA 88

                    Comment

                    • TeriAnn
                      Overdrive
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 1087

                      #11
                      Originally posted by crankin
                      15. Why in the world did the put the timing marks on the driver side front but the distributor on the passenger side back.
                      15A. Why in the world did they put the timing mark on the flywheel so you needed to remove a cover plate and even then you can not see the mark because it is recessed inside the bulkhead's dished area.

                      16. Land Rover licensed the Land Rover to Santana then Santana sold the LT85 gearbox to Land Rover when Land Rover needed a heavier duty gearbox. Why didn't Land Rover buy or license the Santana 6 cylinder diesel as well? The Santana six cylinder diesel was basically a Land Rover 4 cylinder diesel with 2 more cylinders added on.
                      -

                      Teriann Wakeman_________
                      Flagstaff, AZ.




                      1960 Land Rover Dormobile, owned since 1978

                      My Land Rover web site

                      Comment

                      • gudjeon
                        5th Gear
                        • Oct 2006
                        • 613

                        #12
                        How about a vehicle where a carb ices in damp weather being designed in England?

                        Comment

                        • TeriAnn
                          Overdrive
                          • Nov 2006
                          • 1087

                          #13
                          Originally posted by gudjeon
                          How about a vehicle where a carb ices in damp weather being designed in England?
                          I'm not sure what you are trying to say with that combination of words arranged the way you placed them. But if you are asking for a carb that will not ice up in cold damp weather, Land Rover had an optional Solex that came with a carb heating element that kept the carb from icing.

                          My 109 came from the factory with one.

                          Or are you asking for a carb that can make ice?
                          -

                          Teriann Wakeman_________
                          Flagstaff, AZ.




                          1960 Land Rover Dormobile, owned since 1978

                          My Land Rover web site

                          Comment

                          • disco2hse
                            4th Gear
                            • Jul 2010
                            • 451

                            #14
                            lol

                            Originally posted by TeriAnn
                            Or are you asking for a carb that can make ice?
                            I think this one, but that it will only make ice in weather that was designed in England and is damp.
                            Alan

                            109 Stage 1 V8 ex-army FFR
                            2005 Disco 2 HSE

                            http://www.youtube.com/user/alalit

                            Comment

                            • gudjeon
                              5th Gear
                              • Oct 2006
                              • 613

                              #15
                              Yes, a clumsy arrangement. I meant a vehicle designed in England hat has the carburetter ice up. It happens on anything not fitted with carb heating arrangements, like most of them.

                              Comment

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