To Grease, or not to Grease???

[SafeAirOne]

Thanks Mark

I know...there's always ONE guy that'll use the dial indicator.

[TeriAnn]

So you just lay the truck on its side then pour oil in over the big fixing nuts then pound on the dust cover to keep the oil in before turning the truck over to the other side?

Actually it is a serious question.

Neither my owners manual nor my workshop manuals say anything about putting oil inside hubs. I have absolutely no idea how anyone would do it. I assume that you place the hub on the stub axle so that the inner hub seal would be engaged. But the front opening is vertical and the front bearing, 2 large nuts & a big folder over washer are all right there at the front blocking the hub's interior.

So how do you pour oil into the hub and how do you know you have enough? And why is it better than the factory instructions that say to pack the hub with grease?

All I have to go on is the Land Rover workshop manual (1968 edition) and what my mentor "Scotty" taught me. Scotty owned a shop that was a Land Rover authorized warranty repair shop for Series trucks. I have experience with 1960, 1966, 1968 and Salisbury hubs (SIII 109). And of course custom hubs for disc brake conversions.

So how do you pour oil in without flipping the truck on its side so that the opening is facing up? And why on earth would you want to?

[jac04]

She has more experience than almost anyone in the country about Rover maintenance and upgrades, if you follow that kind of thing.

Experience does not equal knowledge. I guess that's why I don't follow that kind of thing. That may also be why I own calibrated torque wrenches, dial indicators, vernier calipers, etc.

Her comments were ... funny as hell.

Yes, I do enjoy Teriann's posts, I find them very entertaining.

Like I said, I suggest you do your own research if you want to find the correct answers to your questions. If you don't really care what is really technically correct and you just want something that will get you by, then pick your favorite forum celebrity and blindly follow them.

Again, my suggestion to keep the oil lubricated design is simply my opinion (that's why I wrote "IMO"). If you want to convert from oiled hubs to greased hubs, it would be best to follow the specific procedure in the Green Bible.

[TeriAnn]

Experience does not equal knowledge. I guess that's why I don't follow that kind of thing. That may also be why I own calibrated torque wrenches, dial indicators, vernier calipers, etc.

I think you need both knowledge and experience. And do wonder if you can truly have knowledge without experience. I assume that's why my chemistry and physics classes all came with labs. So we could gain hands on experience to go with the stuff they tried to teach us in lecture. It is good to own measuring devices and torque wrenches. Everyone who works on something physical should have a set that is relative to what they work on. And a good set of manuals are also a must.

And I'm very thankful that I had an excellent mentor who took a newbie not sure what a torque wrench did woman under his wing and spent so many hours over the years feeding me with theory and lab. Jim "Scotty" Howett went through the pre WWII UK automotive apprenticeship programme. At the end of WWII he and his bride, Jean, moved to the US and he opened an independent British Car service company. Somewhere along his journey he trained at Land Rover and his company became an authorized Series Land Rover warranty repair shop. For years every time I had a problem with my Land Rover that I didn't understand I would visit. We would talk Land Rover mechanics in the dining room over tea and cookies then head on out to the shop where he would show me what we had been talking about. Often he would send me home with a dozen of so of his "Scottys adapters" to sell for him. Scotty and his wife Jean were dear friends for years and I still miss them and our hours around the table discussing Series Land Rover mechanics. He taught me most everything I know about Series trucks.

Again, my suggestion to keep the oil lubricated design is simply my opinion (that's why I wrote "IMO"). If you want to convert from oiled hubs to greased hubs, it would be best to follow the specific procedure in the Green Bible.

I'm still puzzled about "oil lubricated design" I have never seen such a thing and Scotty never mentioned such a thing when he taught me how to change the inner hub seal and set the preload on the bearings. And when is following the instructions in the factory workshop manual wrong? My 1968 edition white cover manual says to use grease. The later issued green manuals say to use grease. Where and when did the concept of using oil come into and out of use? Which edition of the factory workshop manual instructs you to use oil & how in the heck would you get it into the hubs?

[I Leak Oil]

I do find it to be an odd discussion about using indicators to set hub end float per the manual yet lubing those same bearings with 90wt which the manual may not (I'm too lazy to go read it, hence the may not) specify. For years and years.... and years mechanics, professional and shade tree, have been setting wheel bearing torque by feel and packing them with grease. Right or wrong, manual or not, it's just plain worked. This is like debating which shade of blue is best and who has the most experience to determine it.

[SafeAirOne]

Without the driving members with the oil fill holes, it's impossible to get oil in the hub cavity, as TeriAnn says.

Just to prove my hub end-float nerdiness, a pic of my perfectly-tightened hub nut from my swivel pin replacement job earlier today :

[jac04]

I'm still puzzled about "oil lubricated design" I have never seen such a thing... Which edition of the factory workshop manual instructs you to use oil & how in the heck would you get it into the hubs?

Green manual Publication No. AKM8159 Edition 1 explains that the early hubs were oiled and how to convert them to greased hubs/bearings. The issue is that there is still no way to actually seal the oil from the SPH out of the hubs (they just state to pack the area between the drive flange and hub with grease, which is their attempt to 'block off' the end of the stub axle to keep oil out of the hubs). This would mean that the grease can become contaminated by oil. Rule #1 for proper lubrication: never mix lubricants.

As I explained earlier, there is a fill hole in the drive flange that allows oil to be added. If you don't have the flange with the fill plug, I believe (not 100% sure because I can't physically verify it) that one of the bolt holes in the hub goes all the way thru to the hub, allowing you to add oil - the hole that lines up with a wheel stud IIRC. How do you know how much to put in? It doesn't really matter much, as any excess oil will drain back into the SHP (or rear axle case on the rear end) through the stub axle.

[TeriAnn]

Green manual Publication No. AKM8159 Edition 1 explains that the early hubs were oiled and how to convert them to greased hubs/bearings.

Any dates as to when the hubs were filled with oil? My 1960 SII did not have drive flanges with an oil fitting. When I got the vehicle it had freewheel hubs on the front & drive flanges without oil fittings at the rears. Freewheel hubs were a dealer option from at least 1962 and newer. My earliest options list is 1962.

Could this be a Series I thing? I've never tinkered around with a SI.

As I explained earlier, there is a fill hole in the drive flange that allows oil to be added.

Sorry I missed that statement. I just could not figure out how you would put oil in the hubs. I've probably seen 100's of drive flanges and have never seen one with an oil hole. Thanks for clearing that part up for me. Now we just need to figure out what years had a drive flange with a hole for oil.

[stomper]

I'm not looking to stir the pot, but my 1966 IIa has the oil fill holes Jac speaks of. There is a machined hole with an button head Allen screw between 2 of the hub bolts. I've seen a ton of hubs set up with this full hole.

[jac04]

Could this be a Series I thing?

It definitely applies to II & IIA vehicles, since Publication No. AKM8159 is the II / IIA Repair Operation Manual. I think (again, not sure) some early III vehicles may have had oiled hubs. I checked out my brother-in-law's SIII yesterday and the drive flanges had oil fill holes, but there is no way to tell if they are original to the vehicle.

Any dates as to when the hubs were filled with oil?
...
Now we just need to figure out what years had a drive flange with a hole for oil.

I've never seen production dates listed. It may be possible to trace the history of the drive flange with the fill hole by using the old parts listings, but that would be a real PITA (and I'm not sure how you would verify the correct p/n in the first place). The drive flange won't tell the whole history since the hub could also be filled using the one bolt hole that goes all the way thru.

[ignotus]

My white parts book for S2/S2a(dated July 1964) shows the drive flange for both front and rear to be the same part # 512887 along with joint washer #232038 and oil filler plug #276039. In my experiance the change came when the drive flange changed from the individual lugs for the mounting holes to the solid round flange style drive. As JAC says one of the drive flange bolt holes (the one between the wheel studs) goes thru the hub. Put it at the top and add oil! Simples! Then watch it all drip out. . . . .

My light green workshop manual for S2/S2a dated Dec 1958 in section E, page E-2, operation E-10, paragraph 6, "Fill the hub with one-third of a pint (0,190 litres) of oil, through the oil filler plug ( shouldn't it say oil filler plug hole?) in the driving member, using a dispenser with a pipe extension, so that the oil is discharged adjacent to the the outer bearing. Replace the filler plug and joint washer." this is the rear axle section.

A quick perusal of the front axle section shows no mention of oiling the hub.

PS, it does mention greasing the wheel bearing prior to installation, but "don't disturb the oil on the bearings".

[TeriAnn]

Thanks Gene. Either of your trucks have drive flanges with oil plugs?

So evidently the changeover happened sometime between '64 & '68.

Got a jpeg of one?

[jac04]

In my experiance the change came when the drive flange changed from the individual lugs for the mounting holes to the solid round flange style drive.

All the drive flanges that I've seen with the fill plugs have been solid round flange design.

[parrie]

Well it looks like I missed quite a conversation over the week-end! Thanks for all the input! Finished the tear down on both front & rear...both front & rear original flanges have the oil fill hole. As I mentioned before she's an early IIa and sports some II parts, not sure if these would be left-over II parts utililzed or even if they are original to the vehicle? Now here's the next quandry...I have a set of Fairey lock-out hubs I plan to install but the drive flange has no oil fill!!! I suppose a bit more research on converting to grease is warranted...a slippery topic indeed

[jac04]

I have a set of Fairey lock-out hubs I plan to install but the drive flange has no oil fill!!! I suppose a bit more research on converting to grease is warranted...a slippery topic indeed

If you want to go the oil route, then check to see if one of the drive flange mounting holes goes all the way through. Not sure if they all do.