Need some advice... 1963 Series IIA 109 Station Wagon

[dartmouthbrian]

Hello all. I am new here on the forum. I've owned many different land rovers and did a full frame off resto on a 73 Series III 88 back in 2003-2004. I'm from Virginia, but now live in Seattle. Just a little background.

So here I am considering a 1963 Series IIA 109 for $4k. It's a pretty unique truck with all of its history and I am pretty much in love with it. It even has the original bill of sale. It's a LHD originally purchased in Switzerland and then almost immediately shipped off to North Africa where it spent close to 20 years before the person moved to Vancouver and brought the rover with him, where it has now spent the last 31 or so years. It has been sitting since about 1997. That was the last time it was registered.

The rover is super straight. Body is almost perfect. The paint has a nice patina. The interior is 7 out of 10. The head liner is 10 out of 10. It has a factory installed oil cooler. It has a factory installed winch. Tropical roof. It's been converted to run with an alternator. Some sort of unique heater that looks factory (not kodiak). Has power brakes.

Now the BAD.

1. The engine does not run, but it turns over by hand.

2. Rear cross member and rear portion of the frame to the outriggers is rusted. It will need some work back there, but could probably wait a while. Rest of the frame tings with a hammer and looks good.

2. The lower rear door frame on the body is rusted.

3. The lower outer bulkhead door pillars below the hinge are rusted on both sides. Floor pans outside and inside look solid though.

4. There is a spot of rust to the left of and below the outer vent on the passenger side. It's a weird spot, but rust outside has def come from inside somewhere.


So my questions to you all:

1. Am I a fool? It's $4k for this truck.

2. What could I be looking at to get it running, any thoughts or experience with a car sitting for 17yrs?

My thought is tackle this in 2 phases.

Phase 1: Get it running

Phase 2: Take care of cosmetics ie rust...

Check out the pics. Look at how flush those doors sit!! Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

[dartmouthbrian]

Heres a pic of the rust on the rear door frame on the body. Pretty much the same on both sides.

[SafeAirOne]

Do you own a MIG welder?

If there's enough good metal to make it worth repairing each of those things (bulkhead, t-posts, rear crossmember and outriggers) then it's a decent deal IMO. If you must REPLACE that stuff, then It'd be a tough call if you ask me, but then again, I'm a cheap SOB.

On the other hand, anybody in the high-quality restoration business would probably snap up a nice, straight $4k 109.

[dartmouthbrian]

Do you own a MIG welder?

If there's enough good metal to make it worth repairing each of those things (bulkhead, t-posts, rear crossmember and outriggers) then it's a decent deal IMO. If you must REPLACE that stuff, then It'd be a tough call if you ask me, but then again, I'm a cheap SOB.

On the other hand, anybody in the high-quality restoration business would probably snap up a nice, straight $4k 109.

I don't own a MIG welder, but I'm not above getting one. In terms of restoration, I am all about salvaging what's there and in a last ditch effort, replacing.

I'm just concerned with the rear frame near the crossmember. It could be patched... I think.

Where ya from in NH? I used to live in West Lebanon/Hanover.

[SafeAirOne]

Where ya from in NH? I used to live in West Lebanon/Hanover.

Manchester; I suspected by the screen name that you had some familiarity with that area.



Not sure of the extent of bad chassis you're looking at, but they sell replacement rear crossmembers that include the last 18 inches of rear chassis rail. You just need to cut off the spring mounts for 109 use:

[o2batsea]

Add a zero to that and you'll be in the right ballpark for restoring a 2A. They are extremely difficult to find parts for.
If you just want to make it a driver then of course it willl cost far less.
Thing is if the rear crossmember is shot that means the rest of the chassis is in question. Rusty doors can be repaired. There are places out there making reproduction parts that will fit, but don't look like 2A bits.

[dartmouthbrian]

Add a zero to that and you'll be in the right ballpark for restoring a 2A. They are extremely difficult to find parts for.
If you just want to make it a driver then of course it willl cost far less.
Thing is if the rear crossmember is shot that means the rest of the chassis is in question. Rusty doors can be repaired. There are places out there making reproduction parts that will fit, but don't look like 2A bits.

Hey thanks for the insight... Are you suggestion $40k if I'm paying someone or doing the work myself? I'm curious b/c when I restored my 73 SWB it came nowhere near that kind of price, but then again that was 10-11yrs ago and a Series III.

The rust on the rear chassis came from the person loading and unloading a boat over the years. Looks like they backed right up to the rear outriggers each time and didn't clean up. The rust is bad back there, but salvagable. The worst part are the outriggers themselves and on the chassis behind the rear crossmember.

[o2batsea]

It depends on your definition of "restore". If that means everything comes apart, gets renewed or replaced or overhauled, then the 40K figure is close with you doing the work (well maybe a bit low actually). Everyone has their own notion of what constitutes finality.
If you just want to get it back to driving quality, then of course that's a la carte as far as the spend menu goes.
Also, you will probably not be able to recoup the spend if you decide to sell.

[tolonian]

Looks like lots of the project trucks for sale here in BC. I don't think your a fool, the $4k is attractive given the history, factory installed extras and the condition of the interior but parts for a 1963 are going to be hard to find and pricey. In the last 10 years lots of parts have become very hard to find and of course prices have gone up to crazy levels in some cases. If your ok with changing to later parts you might be able to get away with blue bag later IIA or SIII parts but it's still going to cost you $15 at a minimum to go through everything. After sitting for 17 years, presumably outside, everything will have to be gone through as most things will be seized, rotted etc. Most people don't lay up a perfectly good truck for that long.. Having gone through a frame off resto if I had to do it again I would look for a truck where somebody has already replaced the chassis and fixed the bulkhead and most of the mechanicals. There are lots of guys who just like the project and not so much the finished product so for $10-$12k you can get a great truck. Much better use of money in my opinion unless you just love tearing these things apart and doing all the work yourself. I enjoyed the work but not enough to go through it again! as already said you don't get your money back if you sell it and why not save yourself the $. You can still tinker as god knows these trucks keep you busy with a wrench.

Anyway, your choice, if you have money sitting around doing nothing and love to tear into a project, top to bottom, touch every piece then go for it. May as well set aside $4k for a new frame as you don't want to have to do another tear down in 5 years and so it begins....

[o2batsea]

Yup. The quality of the reproduction parts is so bad that I actually derusted and replated much of the parts. All the stud and nut plates in particular.
Here's a list off the top of my head of what is NLA (as in you have to convince someone who is haording these parts to sell them to you):
Doors
door tops
Hinges
wings
Tropical top
Every single solitary thing that's in the interior (except dome light lens and floor screws)
wing splash plates
clutch reservoir
pedals and towers
Triplex glass windshield and side glass
horns
headlight buckets
stop turn and marker lights and lenses
side and rear steps
sills
badges
wiper motors arms blades
wing mirrors
bumpers
wheels
there's more like radiators engine parts and some brake items

So if that truck needs any of those items, your options are renew, buy sh(odd)y reproductions or scrounge from hoarders. Interior bits are particularly problematic. I have probably thrown away $500 worth of useless reproduction crap that was not up to par during the course of my build.

[SafeAirOne]

You guys have MUCH higher standards than I do...

If it were me, I'd spend $500 on a decent used Millermatic MIG welder, go down to my local gas place and rent a tank of steel mix and enjoy myself. You learn something new, add an invaluable asset to the tool bin and get a solid rover to boot.

Horizontal MIG welding with gas is so easy a caveman could do it. Other positions will come with practice.

[Revtor]

At a minimum you have to:
drain gastank, clean carb, get engine running. Hope the tank is still good.
replace brake lines, replace clutch lines, get these systems running.
change all fluids.
Get all lights working.
Tires?

At that point you can enjoy it if the frame is road worthy and the driveline is in good working condition. Expect lots of leaks.. If the frame is unsafe, then it's a big job of removing the top and tub and then hacking/welding the frame back together. Repairing brakes, tuning engine etc is doable for most any shadetree mechanic. Getting into stripping a 109 and working on the frame puts it into another category in terms of space needed, equipment needed, and overall energy levels.

Overall though, for 4k, that's not too bad of a job list and nothing there is so NLA that it'll stop you. Solid straight 109's for 4k do not pop up often! If you want a cool truck to have fun in then I'd say go for it. If you want it to be perfect, then you're way better off hunting one down that has already been gone through.

If it was FS near me I'd have a hard time NOT buying it!! (My lady knows a 109 is coming one of these years!)

have fun!

~Steve

[o2batsea]

You guys have MUCH higher standards than I do...

I think just about everybody does...

[SafeAirOne]

I think just about everybody does...

You're probably right.