Swivel balls (not a personal problem)

[slowmo]

Well. Maybe it is.

The next project as I move towards having a reliable truck is the leaking swivel balls. I basically have to replace all the seals. That much is given. What else should I be aware of as I dive into this project?

That said, I now have a driving truck. That is new and I might just drive it a while.

I have had the truck since December and the huge list of things I have fixed and replaced is likely more a function of the lack of maintenance by the previous owner. But here is a short summary:

• all wheel bearings, brakes, wheel cylinders, shocks
• head gasket, exhaust manifold, generator, water pump, heater valve, all hoses and belts, battery
• tires, seat cushions, window tracks, etc
• added tach, ammeter, voltmeter
• added spin on oil filter
• transmission, pressure plate, clutch, slave and master cylinder, hoses
• rear half shaft

After the swivel balls, I begin to think I might reach an acceptable level of reliability. My TR3 is there. I can trust it, but the Rover...not yet.

Does anyone actually use a Series Rover as a reliable daily driver?

[cedryck]

Slomo,
My series 2a would be a reliable daily driver. But I choose not to as I like music, and I like to hear music, and driving a series truck does not allow me that option, so having said that, and the fact that I work in a city style area, a truck that does not lock up is not a practicle choice as a daily. My V70 is the mobile choice. A/C, radio I can hear, and an alarm. I have been nicked too many times to trust my 2a to protect my stuff when it is out of my sight.
Just my 2 cents, here, Drive your rig, and enjoy it, it will always need attention, but after the hard work in the tranny drive it and enjoy the Rover,

[lumpydog]

• all wheel bearings, brakes, wheel cylinders, shocks
• head gasket, exhaust manifold, generator, water pump, heater valve, all hoses and belts, battery
• tires, seat cushions, window tracks, etc
• added tach, ammeter, voltmeter
• transmission, pressure plate, clutch, slave and master cylinder, hoses
• rear half shaft

Wow! Nice. With regard to the swivel ball seals, TerriAnn has a pretty easy approach that won't require you to dismantle the whole thing: http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/LRhubseal.htm

One thing to check: Turn your steering wheel all the way to the right. Get out and check the front right and back left of the ball's surface for rust-caused pitting. Then turn the steering wheel to the left and check the opposite sides on each ball. Pitting causes the seals to degrade and leak by abrading the rubber seal - so new seals would be a bandaid vs a permanent solution if you have pitting.

No pitting + new seals = no leaking (in theory).

[o2batsea]

I hope I can dissuade you from splitting the seal. Taking apart the swivel is a rite of passage and the zen of it is not to be missed.
It is very easy. You just need to have your bucket of diesel handy to toss parts in as you go. Only thing about it that kinda sucks is getting the old distance pieces off.
My technique for that is to drill thru the flat edge with a 3/16. Then take a cold chisel and whack the thing right where the hole is. That will deform/expand it enough for it to slide off the stub axle. The rest is just nuts and bolts.

[ybt502r]

In response to your last question (plea) - yes, I and multiple others here do use their truck as a daily driver. Not without a few issues now and then (I have the bus as backup but rarely need it). But first I invested in a SIII with mostly updated parts, replaced a list of others, and try to keep up with the rest. My wife used to ask me when I'd give up and buy a 'real car', but she's stopped that by now. I like having a truck I like to drive and that I can drive it every day. Never fails to get a smile out of me or others, save the ones behind me on the freeway. It helps that, in Alaska, the SIII is actually a mostly reasonable mode of travel.

[LaneRover]

At times I used both my 65 109 SW and my 69 109 P-up as my daily driver. They worked great, the only time one of them left me hanging was when something got sucked through the gas line on the SW. I even drove the P-up from LA to SD at night with no alternator as the parking lights were bright enough on the SoCal freeways.

[leafsprung]

Been driving a series daily for 18 years. Currently a 49. Its not as dramatic as you make it sound. Leak free swivels will not make your car reliable. Here are some helpful pointers

-use genuine parts
-if your swivels are pitted they will wear the seal out quickly or simply not seal
-put sealant in the groove in the swivel housing into which the swivel seal fits to prevent oil from weeping around the outside of the seal
-put thick grease (like sig 3000) in the swivel seal lip
-use your favorite thread sealant on all bolts that pass through the swivel housing (seal retainer bolts, swivel pin/bearing bolts etc)
-replace copper crush washer on the swivel pin drain
-use a smear of sealant on swivel pin bearing cap
-adjust your steering stops so that the waist of the swivel ball does not deform the seal lip at full lock

[cedryck]

I understand why Terri, recomends splitting the seal. I get it. But why is that not a good idea?

[Contractor]

I understand why Terri, recomends splitting the seal. I get it. But why is that not a good idea?

Bluntly, it is a half ass repair.


I am with Bill and the rest, do it right the first time.......it's not horrible, just messy.



I drive my series for weeks at a time without driving my true "daily". I would have no issue getting in and driving it across the country.......it took some work to get it to where I felt comfortable doing that, but you will get there. If you have not gotten to put many miles on it since your most recent repairs, let it leak for a while and enjoy the truck. As Ike said, they are not mission critical.

[slowmo]

Thanks for all the tips. I am a do it once, do it right, kind of shade tree mechanic and I like to know my car(truck). I will do the complete tear down so I can see how it all fits together. That way if out in the boonies and something goes wrong I'll have an idea what to do. Then I may do the Terri quick fix method in later iterations or for quick/emergency repairs.

[lumpydog]

Slowmo. Great! I have a pitted ball - not leaking... yet. I'm interested in hearing about your experience. I know others have done this, but I'd love to follow your repair given today's parts suppliers. What you purchase - where you get it, any sticking points. Hoping you will share here or can PM me!

[MJL]

Does anyone use the Nicrotec swivel grease packs in their Series vehicles. I see it advertised for RR Classics and Defenders.

Mike

[jac04]

Thanks for all the tips. I am a do it once, do it right, kind of shade tree mechanic and I like to know my car(truck). I will do the complete tear down so I can see how it all fits together. That way if out in the boonies and something goes wrong I'll have an idea what to do. Then I may do the Terri quick fix method in later iterations or for quick/emergency repairs.

If you do it right, then you should not need need to do any "quick fix" for a loooooong time. Read Ike's (leafsprung) advice several times and follow it, especially the parts about the use of sealants.

[TeriAnn]

Been driving a series daily for 18 years. Currently a 49. Its not as dramatic as you make it sound. Leak free swivels will not make your car reliable. Here are some helpful pointers

-use genuine parts
-if your swivels are pitted they will wear the seal out quickly or simply not seal
-put sealant in the groove in the swivel housing into which the swivel seal fits to prevent oil from weeping around the outside of the seal
-put thick grease (like sig 3000) in the swivel seal lip
-use your favorite thread sealant on all bolts that pass through the swivel housing (seal retainer bolts, swivel pin/bearing bolts etc)
-replace copper crush washer on the swivel pin drain
-use a smear of sealant on swivel pin bearing cap
-adjust your steering stops so that the waist of the swivel ball does not deform the seal lip at full lock

I second every step mentioned in this post. But the key is not to have pitted swivel balls. If yours are, you should replace them or repair them. It is usually cheaper to purchase new ones than to do a proper repair which consists of welding on new metal filing it down to get the exact stock curvature and having the swivel balls hard chromed.

The common low ball cure is to clean the swivel balls very well, add JB weld and sand the dried goo down to the stock curvature. I have never seen it done but some people swear that it works OK.

About using a LR for a daily driver. I have 2 vehicles I use as daily drivers. Depending upon the weather, my mood and if I plan to bring the dog (Irish Wolfhound) along I either take my Land Rover or my TR3. Key to LR is taking care of parts that suffer from neglected maintenance then to follow the factory recommended maintenance schedule in the owners manual.

For the past 28 years I have had just the LR and TR3 as my only daily drivers. Though the TR3 was offline for a couple years in the late 1980's while I rebuilt her and the LR was offline for a couple of months in 1999 when she received a new engine, gearbox and power steering.

One recommendation, when one axle breaks I suggest that you replace them both because the other is likely near the end of its life cycle as well.

The 10 spline rear axles tend to break at around 45,000 miles. The first two axles broke within 5,000 of my purchasing the vehicle 38 years ago. The axles I installed new seemed to break between 40,000 and 50,000. When the seventh rear axle broke I replaced the entire rear assembly with a Salisbury.

Keep replacing the out of spec parts as you find them and follow the factory maintenance schedule and the vehicle will become dependable.

[TeriAnn]

I understand why Terri, recomends splitting the seal. I get it. But why is that not a good idea?

Bluntly, it is a half ass repair.

Actually the split seal repair method was not my idea. This method was passed down to me by my late land Rover mentor James "Scotty" Howett.

Scotty grew up in the 1930s and early 1940s and went through the traditional UK automotive mechanic apprenticeship programme. After WWII he and his bride immigrated to the US where he started Scotty's foreign auto repair shop which was a British car repair shop. Sometime in the early 1960s Scotty's shop became an authorized Land Rover warranty repair shop. He showed me the authorization document once but I just do not remember the year it was dated.

When Scotty was teaching me this seal replacement method he mentioned that the factory warranty repair book didn't allow enough time for a proper seal replacement so he lost a little money each time his shop replaced a swivel seal under warranty.

Scotty said this repair worked because only the area of thinnest cut you can make in the seal is compromised and the cut area is placed at the top. The rest of the seal remains as stock. The oil inside the swivel sits in the bottom half of the swivel well away from the cut. The only oil that reaches the cut area is splash when the front axles are turning. If you have freewheel hubs oil does not splash up there unless the hubs are locked and the vehicle is in motion. The RTV between the halves of the cut handles the oil splash of a vehicle moving with locked hubs. And an important part of all the swivel seal replacement methods is not to over tighten the bolts holding on the steel seal retaining cover. Over tightening the cover will distort the seal and cause it to leak.

The method has worked for me over the decades. and of course it is a personal decision as to how you replace the seal. I'm just passing along one of the little tricks that my LR mentor had passed on to me.