'73 Series III rear brakes problem

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  • printjunky
    3rd Gear
    • Jul 2007
    • 325

    #16
    100% agree with Mark. Brake light symptom is likely a separate issue.

    The most important variable seems to be the "sitting for awhile." Seems unlikely that would be a factor in whether the system retained pressure (other than by coincidence).

    I doubt this is related, but it reminds me a bit of a condition I get sometimes, under certain circumstance (especially the "after it's been sitting " thing).

    About 10% of the time, after getting wet, then sitting for 24+ hrs, the first time I brake, I get a "catch" in the brakes. Kinda makes a bang/chirp, and provides a moment of resistance, almost like it's going to lock up - but it never gets really close to that. As soon as I release the pedal, it rolls fine (and never feels like it wants to really lock up, even if I kept the pedal applied). No other affect, and usually just happens one time. I always assumed it was a matter of a little flash rust on the drum (and maybe a trailing/leading shoe position - can you flip those?). When it first happened it seemed a bit dramatic. But it is really not, and otherwise the brakes work great.

    99% of the time, when it does this, after hitting the brakes (and "catching") once, it's done. It ONLY happens at VERY low speed (I go down a hill from my driveway, so apply brakes pretty quickly). Once in a great while it takes a couple of "catches." The degree of apparent dramatic-ness varies. Most of the time it doesn't happen, of course. When it does, sometimes it's barely a tick, others, it will be 3 stronger, separate "catches," before it's gone (like once on the hill, once (usually lesser) at the first intersection). It's always gone by a couple of brake applications AND if I drive without braking right away (eg: I'm not at home, on the hill), it doesn't do it at all (braking at speed probably clears it without having any noticeable affect due to momentum). Length of time sitting seems to be an important variable. That and the very slow speeds at which I usually brake for the first time.

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    • ignotus
      2nd Gear
      • Sep 2009
      • 237

      #17
      It can be that the shoes need some additional chamfering to stop from dragging. It seems to be a new phenomenon I think that crappily made parts are at fault, perhaps not the correct arc on the shoe. Read; http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/f...ic,6606.0.html
      1960 "bitsa" 88--Ignotus
      1960 109, 200TDI
      rebuild blog; http://poppageno.blogspot.com/

      Comment

      • 1973series3
        Low Range
        • Jul 2014
        • 32

        #18
        Originally posted by printjunky
        100% agree with Mark. Brake light symptom is likely a separate issue.

        The most important variable seems to be the "sitting for awhile." Seems unlikely that would be a factor in whether the system retained pressure (other than by coincidence).

        I doubt this is related, but it reminds me a bit of a condition I get sometimes, under certain circumstance (especially the "after it's been sitting " thing).

        About 10% of the time, after getting wet, then sitting for 24+ hrs, the first time I brake, I get a "catch" in the brakes. Kinda makes a bang/chirp, and provides a moment of resistance, almost like it's going to lock up - but it never gets really close to that. As soon as I release the pedal, it rolls fine (and never feels like it wants to really lock up, even if I kept the pedal applied). No other affect, and usually just happens one time. I always assumed it was a matter of a little flash rust on the drum (and maybe a trailing/leading shoe position - can you flip those?). When it first happened it seemed a bit dramatic. But it is really not, and otherwise the brakes work great.

        99% of the time, when it does this, after hitting the brakes (and "catching") once, it's done. It ONLY happens at VERY low speed (I go down a hill from my driveway, so apply brakes pretty quickly). Once in a great while it takes a couple of "catches." The degree of apparent dramatic-ness varies. Most of the time it doesn't happen, of course. When it does, sometimes it's barely a tick, others, it will be 3 stronger, separate "catches," before it's gone (like once on the hill, once (usually lesser) at the first intersection). It's always gone by a couple of brake applications AND if I drive without braking right away (eg: I'm not at home, on the hill), it doesn't do it at all (braking at speed probably clears it without having any noticeable affect due to momentum). Length of time sitting seems to be an important variable. That and the very slow speeds at which I usually brake for the first time.



        To be clear, after sitting and not hitting the brake pedal and backing out of the garage it will travel a few feet and lock up solid on the rear wheels.

        I had to put it in 4wd and force it out of the garage the last time. After forcing it to move it finally decided to act normally.

        I will add, this never happened EVER until I replaced the shoes.

        Hell, I'm about to put the old ones on the rear again(only the rear is creating an issue?) and mail these new ones back to RN so they can check them out.

        Comment

        • 1973series3
          Low Range
          • Jul 2014
          • 32

          #19
          Originally posted by ignotus
          It can be that the shoes need some additional chamfering to stop from dragging. It seems to be a new phenomenon I think that crappily made parts are at fault, perhaps not the correct arc on the shoe. Read; http://www.series2club.co.uk/forum/f...ic,6606.0.html


          I have suspected this but didn't want to taint any replies so I never mentioned it.

          Comment

          • SafeAirOne
            Overdrive
            • Apr 2008
            • 3435

            #20
            Originally posted by 1973series3
            To be clear, after sitting and not hitting the brake pedal and backing out of the garage it will travel a few feet and lock up solid on the rear wheels.
            I will add, this never happened EVER until I replaced the shoes.
            This clarification could have saved lots of typing, had it come in post #1.

            IT'S THE SHOES (or their installation).
            --Mark

            1973 SIII 109 RHD 2.5NA Diesel

            0-54mph in just under 11.5 minutes
            (9.7 minutes now that she's a 3-door).

            Comment

            • Les Parker
              RN Sales Team - Super Moderator
              • May 2006
              • 2020

              #21
              Mark,, it would be good to know if the rear brakes are set up (spring fitment and drum diameter/condition) the same as the front.


              2p
              Les Parker
              Tech. Support and Parts Specialist
              Rovers North Inc.

              Comment

              • SafeAirOne
                Overdrive
                • Apr 2008
                • 3435

                #22
                Originally posted by Les Parker
                Mark,, it would be good to know if the rear brakes are set up (spring fitment and drum diameter/condition) the same as the front.


                2p
                Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I added "or their installation" to my last post, despite the original poster's earlier assurance that the shoes and springs were set up correctly.

                Drum diameter wasn't mentioned by the OP though, and the book has some pretty specific specs on those...


                I don't think it's vendor-specific, but I think we've noticed an increasing number of brake shoe-related issues documented on the different Series Rover forums (fora?) over the last 2 or 3 years, many related to friction surface shape/dimensions, IIRC.
                --Mark

                1973 SIII 109 RHD 2.5NA Diesel

                0-54mph in just under 11.5 minutes
                (9.7 minutes now that she's a 3-door).

                Comment

                • singingcamel
                  4th Gear
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 398

                  #23
                  I would agree with the post, Its the shoes, I'd also turn the drums , check your spring placement as well, easy to mess them up.

                  Comment

                  • 1973series3
                    Low Range
                    • Jul 2014
                    • 32

                    #24
                    The springs are installed correctly.

                    I did attempt to put the old shoes on the rear the other day and throw the new ones over the hill, but I have not been able to find the bolts for the old shoes yet.

                    It figures that they are not the same thread.

                    Comment

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