New owner to an old Rover

[vladthemad]

I have a series of questions about my Series. I picked up an 88 with a pickup cab. Sadly it's missing the frame for the canvas bed cover, but the tie downs and cutters on the cab seem to be there. It's rough in some areas, not bad in others. Mostly seems to have minor mechanical issues, which in my opinion are easier to deal with than bodywork. I've been doing a lot of reading on the net, but there's a few things I'm still curious about.

Currently it has what I believe are Fairey locking hubs on the front. Do these come up for sale ever? I'm thinking of adding locking hubs to the rear as well, to allow for easy flat towing. I'd prefer that they match all around though, so if I stick with the Fairey I'd need to buy another set. Also, I've seen talk of 10 and 24 spline axles, was the 24 spline only aftermarket install on the series or was it available stock? If stock, what years would it have been stock? How the heck would I tell without disassembling?

An overdrive like the Roverdrive (Roamerdrive now?) takes the position of the front PTO correct? What about the finned sump the offer, isn't that where a different PTO can be mounted? In the future I'd like to fit both a PTO and a OD. I'd probably want a rear PTO as it's the most useful, but I've seen that I can get a hydraulic spline, so really any hydraulic position the transfer case would work. Just curious what my possibilities are. Anyone have any experience with the Roverdrive? What about the older versions out there? Roverdrive is at least still produced, but if it's trash I'll look at something else that's harder to find.

I ordered new wheels from Rovers North because my rover has oversized spokes on it and I have always hated spoked wheels. The wheels arrived today, so I'll probably be looking to find someone to powdercoat them this weekend and pricing tires. Am I correct that the proper color wheels for series III would be sandstone?

I'm sure I'll be here asking a lot more questions as time goes on. I know I have brake issues but I've read enough to know what the likely problem is. Might just upgrade to discs while I'm at it. Also the transmission seems pretty clunky with a lot of play, so I may be rebuilding that pretty quickly...which is when I'd probably look at installing the OD at the very least. First things first though.

Edit: Oh yeah, one last thing...how do you get the front seats to lift up?! There's storage underneath isn't there?

[bugeye88]

Valdy,
Wow, where to begin?
First, welcome to the group. Second we will need more info on your Landy to address these many questions. Year, engine, series, will all help. I'll start by saying the matching hubs issue doesn't matter as all 4X4's don't have hubs on the rear axles. The rear drive is disconnected by the transfer case for towing or any other need to disengage the front and rear axles at the same time. The axles are propably 24 spline if it's a series 111, and they are stock. You can't have both a rear PTO and an overdrive, as they both come off the same place on the transfer case, so pick one. If you go with an over drive, there are essentially two choices; Fairey (which is no longer produced to my knowledge, but is a good unit) and Roverdrive, which is also good. But remember, you can only use either an over drive or a PTO.
To access the storage under the drivers seat, just lift up the seat pad under your tush, and there is the secret storage.... I'll leave it there, and let our other brothers take it from here.

Cheers and Tally Ho,

Rob
Bugeye88

[vladthemad]

Hey Rob, Thanks for the welcome! I apologize, I guess specs would be helpful? Hah. I have yet to set up a signature with all that in it. It's a 74 series III, supposedly military surplus. At any rate it's right hand drive, although I don't see anything that would indicate it was military. As near as I can tell it's just the standard 4 cyl, which was what a 2.25? I went to Nebraska to rescue it. I think it saw regular use as a farm truck at some point in it's life up there. It runs and drives, and the engine appears to have some modifications. Uprated ignition and a K&N filter for example. Wiring seems in bad shape, trans is clunky, brakes don't release without opening a bleeder valve, but for the most part that's about all I've found wrong with it. Body seems pretty straight, although as a farm truck there seems to have been a lot of modifications added and removed over the years as indicated by the numerous holes drilled here and there. Also there's a lot of missing screws and bolts...also endemic of a farm truck. Take off the door, lose a screw, so what, that kind of stuff. I've also seen at least three different coats of paint, maybe more.

So the OD goes where the rear PTO would be? Is it that you can only have an OD or a PTO, or can you have both? So where does the hydraulic PTO that they used to run hydraulic wenches with go? There's three PTO positions in the trans correct? I don't need a "stock" PTO (well don't NEED a pto at all, just want one) and I saw there's a generic hydraulic powered PTO....so if I can get an OD and a hydraulic pump PTO in somewhere that'd work fine for my desires. PTO isn't a deal breaker, I just plan to move back to Wisconsin eventually and get some acreage. It'd be nice to be able to haul a mower deck behind to keep the fields and trails in line.

[bugeye88]

Valdy,
So we know pretty much what it is, and since it's a series 111 then the axles are probably 24 spline (good) And the mods you mention like K+N are ok also. How much it was used and cared for and current mechanical condition overall remains to be seen. Engine is most likely a 2.25 petrol. The fact it moves under its own power is good. As for the PTO issue, again it's pretty much a PTO OR a overdrive. I'd say like the overdrive is of more use as it helps you every day vs on an occasion as with a PTO. Just my opinion. Brakes definitely are a priority, as stopping is a good thing. First thing after that is to change all the fluids and clean her up so you can see where you are. You got the idea with the freewheeling hubs, right? Just look at the front hubs and clean/lube them. Whil you are at it, clean and lube the front end. Oh, be sure to get the "Green Bible" factory shop manual to be your guiding light on this project. Our host is a good source, and they will also come in handy for parts and advice on this quest. This will be fun and you will have a good truck in the end.

Cheers,

Rob
Bugeye88

[vladthemad]

Welp, after cruising the internet for a few hours and writing up a wall of text with information gathered and more questions, I tried to insert an image and it crashed.

Let me try to recall the important bits of what I said...

There are a few threads on various Rover forums that talk about using a tow bar to pull a series. More than a few times someone will say just put locking hubs on the rear axle and you don't have to disconnect the driveshaft or any of that nonsense. Seems like a simple addition, versus something complicated like the quick disconnect axles available for towing behind motorhomes or crawling under the Rover in snow/mud/rain. I removed the rear shaft in the snow and mud in Nebraska when I went to pick it up, it's something I'd prefer to avoid in any future towing. Getting locking hubs for the rear and a tow bar from harbor freight is about as much as renting a car dolly or trailer to haul it across country once...and then I'll be set up for any other time I decide to pull it somewhere. So the question really will standard locking hubs for the front also fit the back? Meaning are the hubs the same configuration?

It was talking about a few times on these forums even, here's some threads it's mentioned in.

http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?13757-Towing-a-series-or-defender

http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?16126-Flat-towing-a-series-rig

http://forums.roversnorth.com/showthread.php?10779-Ideas-on-towing-a-Series-IIA

So how do I confirm that it's a 24 spline? Will it be indicated on the axle or body somewhere, or will I need to break it open and check?

The other question that had a lot of supporting links and what not to it basically boils down to trying to find a RAL powder coat number to match to the Rover Limestone for the wheels. Comparing the color square and RAL 1015 on these two links puts them pretty close together.

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/paintdetail.cgi?ppg=46251

http://www.nitrowheel.com/PartsListPictures/ColorChart.pdf

Also comparing a set of Rover wheels in someone's garage to a wheel with RAL 1015 also in someone's garage looks pretty close too.

http://www.northamericaoverland.com/images/10801993_10152873405901410_3294748025189883072_n.jpg

http://www.prismaticpowders.com/uploaded/thumbnails/db_file_img_15493_575xauto.jpg

Lastly, isn't there three positions for a PTO on the transfer case? When talking about a rear PTO, I'm not talking stock, I'm talking about something generic like http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/291368619219 That way I can mount it at the rear but use the hydraulic pump for the front winch perhaps. OD would take precedence over PTO probably, but both would be useful. Part of the reason I went with a Rover was the PTO option. The hydraulic pump PTO for the winch also seems a lot more common than the shaft driven rear anyway. Like I said, it'd mostly be used to lug a mower deck behind the Rover and maybe a log splitter. It's a lot cheaper and more fun than buying a small tractor. I'm just trying to keep the toy count down!

PTO and overdrive are a bit down the line though. Wheels and tires are first, can't go anywhere without those, followed by brakes because those are pretty important too. Then probably locking hubs on the rear if possible, because I'll need to tow it 2k miles pretty soon, followed by a transmission teardown. After that probably a new wiring harness, and THEN pto/od.

I'm torn between doing bodywork and paint or just leaving it look like it's been to Hell and back.

[bugeye88]

Valdy,
Locking hubs in rear? Hydraulic PTO to power a Mower? Importance of perfect match for powder coated wheels? I'm afraid you're leaving me as to what's going on here. Tow it by putting it in neutral in the transfer case with the tranny in 4th. Done it for thousands of miles in many 4X4 trucks....But the axles are most probably 24 spline. If it matters, just pull off the rear axle and count the splines. My advice to get the "Green Bible" still stands.

Luck to ya,

Bugeye88

[SafeAirOne]

So how do I confirm that it's a 24 spline?

Look...just take 10 minutes to pop the rear hub cap and nut, then count the number of splines on the drive flange. If you can't tell from there, pop off the drive flange and count the splines on it or the rear axle. No sense in guessing. Call Ike at Pangolin 4x4. He's the probably the foremost Series Rover locking hub authority in North America (I don't think our hosts can match up your front hubs, but I may be wrong)

The other question that had ... boils down to trying to find a RAL powder coat number to match to the Rover Limestone for the wheels.

There are plenty of paint code numbers for this color out there on the web, Somewhere on our host's site is this information. Not sure how it converts to numbers for powder coat colors, but there are lots of references to the paint code numbers.

Lastly, isn't there three positions for a PTO on the transfer case?

Not that I'm aware of, but then, I'm not aware of much.

I know about the PTO on the normal rear PTO spot on the transfer case, where the transmission output shaft bearing lives. Then there's the rare PTO that bolts in place of the transfer case sump cover. What have you heard about a third PTO location back there?

[cedryck]

Leave it looking like it's been to hell and back, you will be busy enough working on other things to make it, keep it safely road worthy.

[vladthemad]

Hey all, thanks for the responses. It's been a busy work week, so haven't been online much. Stupid Texas and it's stupid winter allergies hasn't helped me get outside much during my down time either. It's hard to get up the energy to crawl under the Rover when I'm having a heck of a time just breathing.

An exact powder coat match wasn't exactly a priority, but of course if someone jumped in and had one I'd use it. The PTO isn't high on the list of importance either, but believe me I'll come up with reasons to have one. Regarding PTO mounting, I thought I had read there was a rear, a front, and the bottom/side location. Of course you can't always believe what you (may or may not have) read on the internet. I'm just trying to figure out what all the possibilities are once I sort the few other issues that are priorities...like the brakes.

Thanks for the descriptive walkthrough on how to find the splines. I had ordered a green bible too, that was something I forgot to mention. It showed up a few days back. I was looking at the rear hub assembly in the manual, and I didn't see any splines at the hubside, but the end section was kind of covered by another part of the hub in the pic. I could see the splines on the front hub view though, so I was a bit confused. Once I can breathe again I'll tackle it.

I had found the paint codes online, on this site and others. The main problem was finding any information about converting those to some sort of modern powder coating. I had been comparing pics of powder coated items to pics of stock rover wheels, and after some searching last weekend, I managed to find where someone offhandedly mentioned the closest would probably be RAL1015. That's one of the two I was debating on, so that's what I went with. They're actually finished as of today. I had dropped them off last weekend and I'll be picking them up tomorrow.

I think I'll probably leave it rough and tumble too, although I'll replace the missing screws...and there are a lot of them, and try to get everything lined up properly. I'll get some pics of it this weekend hopefully and post them up, and some shots of the new wheels too. Thanks again for all the advice and answers everyone!

[vladthemad]

Alright, just installed new wheels and tires. I think it's a vast improvement. What do you guys think?



That majestic beast of a snow dog in the background is Suka. She doesn't like riding in the Rover one bit so far, although all we've done is take it around the block one or thrice.

[cnfowler]

The wheels made a huge difference. They look great!


Colin

[Manny]

Where in Texas are you located? I'm in Helotes

[80sailor]

Where in Texas are you located? I'm in Helotes

ditto.

There are a couple of us on here from Dallas too.

[vladthemad]

ditto.

There are a couple of us on here from Dallas too.

Where in Texas are you located? I'm in Helotes

Currently in San Antonio. On about the exact opposite side of town from you, Manny. near 1604 and 10 on the east side of town. I wasn't sure there were any in the local area, I've never seen a Rover out on the road at any rate!

[Manny]

I sent you a PM with an invite and my contact info.