Expedition weight???

[KingSlug]

I am going to be talking with Rocky Mountain Parabolics about making custom springs for my 1966 2A Ambulance. Right now my ambulance's lean mean fighting weight is 4665lbs on fumes of gas . I will have currently have the 2 front tanks and a SW rear tank. I will be adding a Koening winch, an additonal spare, expediton/camping gear for 4, 4 people, 2 dogs, recover gear and spares.

Any guesses on how much it will weigh fully kitted? I figure it will weigh as much a expediton weight 110, any one know how much that is?

Thanks

[JimCT]

ambulance loaded

WE have a 1968 Marshall ambulance/camper. With a month's worth of gear, a Caranex tent, the two of us and our 115lb kuvasz, we were 6200lbs with all the tanks filled.
Might me hard to find correct parabolics for that. A Dutch couple that ws traveling the length of Africa started our with parabolics and finally gave them up becasue of too many breaks. Jim Would liek to see what you have done with your ambulance.

[yorker]

OK I'm no purist but here is what I think:

I think I'd get a good set of new proper ambulance or one ton springs and then outfit them with the plastic inbetween the leaves as outlined on TAW's page.

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/leafSprings.htm

I think for a top heavy ambulance parabolics F+R might not be a good idea, I doubt they'll control sway very well and if a parabolic breaks on a real expedition it could be a real pain in the butt. I like parabolics but for true expedition use I'd stick to what Rover originally designed.

FWIW I think most of the nightmare stories about truly broken parabolic springs have been with european made parabolics.


Man you guys with your ambulances almost tempt me to use mine... I still think I'd rather build a 109 high cap Pickup though...

[fruitpunch]

I must agree with the other posters Parabolox springs are good for normal vehicles at highway speed but once you start loading up and add some kit they quickly reach their limits.

Basicly they are Ford Explorer style springs and they are made for a specific load range, anything really over that for periods of time they will sag quickly and fail or break. My 88 with 109 wagon rear Parabolics is very bumpy when empty but once loaded with about 200lbs I think they are just right and much better off road then the regular springs because of the extra flex.

If you really wanted to you could get some parabolics springs made that would work, but I think going the 10 leaf plus original route is much safer and easier to fix specially when far away from home.

Just my 2 cts

[TeriAnn]

. I will have currently have the 2 front tanks and a SW rear tank. I will be adding a Koening winch, an additonal spare, expediton/camping gear for 4, 4 people, 2 dogs, recover gear and spares.

Any guesses on how much it will weigh fully kitted?

I bet you could do better than W.A.G.s from others. Figure gas is about 7 lbs per US gallon. How much fuel can you carry? Figure 8 lbs per gallon of drinking water. How much are you loading? Another spare? If its the same rubber as you have on your current spare pop it on th bathroom scale. I bet a weight spec for a Koening winch exists somewhere on the net.

Your vet has dog scales. Take them in for a weighing. Take whatever vehicle you have running, fill the tank & take it down to your local public scale (public dump usually has one) & weigh the vehicle. Bring it home & load it up with everything you might take on a trip minus what you have already weighed. Don't forget a big bag of dog food. Refill the tank & take the loaded vehicle back to the public scale. Put any people not in the car during the weighing on a bathroom scale.

Add it all up then add another 100 lbs for the stuff you forgot to weigh. Add that to the empty ambulance weight and you should be pretty close to your expedition weight. At least closer than any one would come with a W.A.G.

Its just simple addition and some effort on your part and you can get closer that any one else will guess.

B.T.W. You might recnonsider installing parabolics. There is a reason Rover put anti sway bars on a Land Rover ambulance. They have a much higher centre of gravity than I would trust with parabolics that would actually flex under the weight of your rig.

The real question is do you have a Salisbury under the rear with all that weight??

Good luck designing & building your rig.

[KingSlug]

I figured around 6500 lbs...

I figured around 6500 lbs as the very top end of the weight scale, running weight at 6200 lbs. I am trying to keep all the weight as low as possible, with the SW tank filled the amby handles quite well. I will be putting a Al water tank in the cross box storage area.

I was talking with a guy in UK who has a ambulance with 5 parabolic springs in the rear and 3 in the front. He had done some traveling in Morroco and thought the setup work pretty good. Unfortunately I lost his email.

I am going with RM springs because they will make a custom set with added leafs to my weight specs.

Axles: I have decided to keep the rover axle for now although I will be swapping in custom toyota axles and third member F&R. I actually thought about putting in a 101FC in the rear (width and Sals would help out) or a Sals with a JacMac 35 spline axles($$$). I have been pondering making a 6x6. First I extend the frame the back to the ambulance body (actually adding frame horns) then cut the back off the 109 rover axle housing, install a normal third member then its twin upside down without out a ring gear, a short driveshaft, then a 88 axle(overlapping the 88 and 109 springs). Something like this.

This is going to be a long process, but I am looking at springs first because I have some lean and they seem pretty flat.

[JimCT]

Axles

I put in a Salisbury rear and promptly broke and axle in that. WE use our ambulance hard. Great Basin rovers provided upgraded axles and flanges and they are great. Check out Caranex tents too, they made one that fit the back of the ambulance perfectly. I have some photos of our camping set-up if you are interested.

[yorker]

What engine are you going to use to motivate this boat? a 4bt? 6.2? I can't remember what you said you were going to use. Improving a sals should be easy, The guy I swapped the sals from my ambulance to has already upgraded it to 35 spline 1.5" shaft regular Dana 60 stuff and discs. I think he got his shafts from Dutchman.

Definately take your existing sals apart and check it out- mine was VERY worn, probably had 106k on it and the wear and tear could easliy add to the potential breakage. There are a lot of these used sals floating around from Gabor Antalics in Philly.

[J!m]

OK there is a lot going on in this thread, so I'll add my two cents for each point I think is relevant...

1) Parabolic springs. I wouldn't use them on a bet. Especially for a real overland expedition. If you are just outfitting your camper for US based weekend road trips to the local camp ground, that's another story. I can say with authority that if you applied for one of our (Drive the Globe) trips abroad, the springs would have to be changed for all the reasons Terri Ann pointed out. It is not a good idea to go 'custom' on a rig used in other countries either. Keep the Toyota axles under a Toyota. It doesn't make sense. Also, the proper leaf spring pack has much more torsional stiffness than a parabolic could ever hope for (which is partly why they articulate so well). The torsional stiffness helps greatly with body roll. You have testimonials from others, but they are not you, with your truck and your driving style. I strongly recommend avoiding them, and getting new 1-ton springs and either oiling them frequently, or adding the plastic as stated earlier. I run 109 1-ton springs on the rear of my 88 that was used in North Africa, and I had no spring related issues at all (and the ride quality is fine). Others in the group (with 109 station wagon springs) did have serious problems. Adding a 110 rear sway bar is not a bad idea either, but requires a bit of fab work...

2) Rear axle. The strength of the Salisbury is there. I thought all the ambulances already had these installed. A good idea if you don't have one for some reason... NOTE: the 101 axle uses different gear ratio than the series, and will require a gear change (Also not a bad idea, and for the record,no one that I know of has ever broken a 101 axle shaft). If you go with the Rover axle, get the Great Basin axles as recommended. I tested the prototypes in North Africa fully laden and they are great. Be aware, the weak link in the system moved up-stream in this case. For me, it was the ring gear I broke...

3) The final frontier: If you are really serious about making a proper expedition vehicle out of this ambulance, please give this idea serious consideration. Get a new galvanized 110 frame from RN and build the truck up on coils. I run the 130-style 1-ton dual rear springs, and the ride is fantastic heavy or light. (by light I mean un-loaded. With a truck cab and an empty bed, it could get bouncy). Beside the obvious load-carrying capacity, you enjoy fantastic articulation (even with the rear sway installed) and the ride is smooth enough to reduce a lot of the noises that occur over the road and trail. This alone can reduce driver fatigue significantly, making the drive much more comfortable, and increase the amount of time you can spend "in the saddle". If you use it around town empty and then the occasional trip, the inner springs can easily be removed in a few minutes, although I never bother, as the ride is fine. How long does it take to change springs on the ambulance now? The 110 Salisbury axles are nearly bullet-proof. Again, like the 101, the gears will have to be changed to retain the 2.5l engine. But, it's a great time to get a 300Tdi or International 2.8 in there. You will enjoy more power, lots more torque and double the travel range on a tank of fuel. Fully laden I get 20MPG from my 300Tdi; my series 88" (light or heavy) gets 10MPG. I easily go 550 miles on a fill-up, and all I have is an additional 10-gallon piggy-back tank from Mantec, so the added fuel weight is not huge.

Think it through well. There are many options out there, and if you are serious, you have to take every detail seriously. Cutting a corner here or there can cost you your trip, or worst case, your life.

[fruitpunch]

While I agree that you can break any axle even a Salisbury I think the upgrade to the Salisbury is by far the most sensible.

While even the normal Rover axle is strong enough to safely move my friends airstream trailer into it's winter parking spot on a slippery hillside, coming in at easily over 7000 lbs combined weight.

You could even look at ENV axles from a FC.... parts might be an issue, but breaking those is also not that easy.

[Leslie]

OK Fruity, I've got to ask.....

I realize moving an Airstream to a parking spot isn't towing it far, but that's as closest that I've seen to something that I've been wondering about....

I know an 88" is an awfully SWB, but for one of the smaller Bambi's, at non-interstate speeds, is it doable or not? (Local use, not cross-country...)

[fruitpunch]

Well I did not tow the Airstream thru the Catskills to it's current location, I only used it to get it up a mountain in low range and onto it's parking spot.

I am plannning to throw out the 2.25 original gas motor and move to a 2.5 N/A Rover diesel sometime this winter. When that is done I will see how she can handle that Airstream. I assume it will be slow at best, but hopefully fast enough to take it out West in the Summer. And back roads not interstate.

I would be happy with 50 to 55 mph towing that size trailer,..... I know I'm crazy

[J!m]

We are getting off topic here, but I would be far more concerned about the "tail wagging the dog" and stopping that beast than making it go.

At the very least, up-grade to a 109 fromt axle and brakes to help stop that monster. Heavier rear springs are a good idea as well. Not for the weight, but for the sway.

My professional opinion: don't tow that trailer with that truck on the public road system more than a mille or so.

[yorker]

I'm pretty sure Kingslug is going to use his truck for expeditions within Hawaii for the time being, probably to North America as well, not sure about any aspirations to Africa or Siberia or other remote destination. For his needs an upgrade of the rear Salisbury to US HD dana 60 spec makes sense and the upgrade of the front end to Toyota center + axles wouldn't be a bad upgrade to consider either, especially since he could use a brand new toyota E locker and pay less for it than he could for a rebuilt rover front end with ARB. Parts for the Dana and Toyota are readily available here when and if he needs them.

The stock rover drivetrain MIGHT be satisfactory with the stock Rover engine but I suspect he won't be sticking with a 80+- HP 2.25 for long with this truck! Going from 124ft-lbs@2500rpm vs a potential of 485 Ft-lbs for a 4bt...well ok stock it would be 105 @2500 and torque is 265 ft lbs @ 1500

[J!m]

If the DANA 60 rear is done custom, why not do the front as a custom DANA as well? Or, better (arguably) yet, why not go with a pair of Ford 9-inch axles, so the diff can be pulled/swapped easily in the field for quick repairs?

I had considered this for my 88", but since it is basically stock, I did not see the need. In fact, I enjoy the way it annoys those who have spent tens of thousands on their rigs with big motors etc. only to be stuck as I putter by in first gear low-range at idle... The looks on their faces are worth more than the money invested in their trucks by a long shot!

Once I did the North Africa expedition in an antique Land-Rover, I was quite convinced this was NOT the correct vehicle for an overland expedition. I spent years doing research, and settled on the 110 I now own for several key reasons reserved for another post.