SII 109 project

[greenmeanie]

My next question is what is the length of a series gearbox?

For some unexplainable reason right now I fancy keeping my red and yellow knobs so want the series transfer case. I also quite fancy the idea of the NV4500 with more gears. This is, of course subject to length restrictions.

I am also looking at comparing things like the NP435 with the Ranger box but again only subject to length.

The final product I am shooting for is along the lines of this beastie:
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Thompson109.html

From their web site it seems they manage to use the Defender axles with series steel wheels.

My wife's requirements so far are: comfortable seats (Taken care of) something less noisy than my 101 and most of all it MUST have aircon.

Cheers
Gregor

[yorker]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624371

There is another one for you to mull over. hehe...

Here are pics of the Np435 my friend Rick is using in his lightweight, I think the adapters Ike made were shorter? Ike is this one of yours or Cooper's?

Rick also has a T18 mated to a LT230 with an adapter that was made by Rovertracks a while back. I'm not sure what the length of that is but any of these should fit in a 109.

[yorker]

There is another NP435 to series trannsfer case adapter, a bit shorter than the one Rick is using too.

Mercedes Jim has the above build documented here:

http://seriestrek.com/109.html

Another build for you to check out

[greenmeanie]

Yorker,
You area veritable fount of projects!

So from what you are sending me I take it most people end up going the NP435 route. Have you found anyone using a NV4500 yet or is it too long/ too expensive?

Well so far I would be inthe hole for:
$4500 for the project
$1300 to ship it.
That's $5800 before starting. I'm in two minds but it would be a fun project. Does anyone know of saomeone wanting to swap a good/perfect IIA bulkhead for a newly galvanised SIII. I just couldn't face a plastic dash.

Cheers
Gregor

[TeriAnn]

Not speed parts per se, general aftermarket. SBC parts are very cheap and plentiful.

OK there are more companies in the market selling Chevy engine parts than Ford engine parts. But it is more like getting a choice of 2 dozen manufacturers instead of one and a half dozen manufacturers and prices are slightly more cut throat in the Chevy parts market. But parts for both types of engines are off the shelf in any North American auto parts store and about one tenth the price of the equivalent Land Rover engine part.

Every small town with a mechanic has someone experienced with the American small block engines, American small truck gearboxes and every auto parts has them on the shelf or in the warehouse for cheap.

Bottom line with both Chevy and Ford small blocks is that with a bit of bulkhead fabrication they fit a Series engine bay, if you don't get crazy with speed parts they have more power at idle than the 2.25L does at peak, with low compression heads (regular grade petrol) & a 500 cfm four barrel jetted properly they get the same fuel mileage as a 2.25l ( or at least mine did city & highway), if you learn EFI they can get better fuel mileage (about 2-3 MPG highway and as much as 5-6 MPG better city or on the trail), they weigh close to the same as the 2.25L petrol (with aluminum heads the Ford is nearly 50 pounds lighter), parts are plentiful, cheap and everything is a lot more robust.

But any conversion is only as good as the system approach used to design it and the skills of the fabricator.

Both Ford and Chevy work fine and it is mostly a matter of an individual's tastes and emotional prejudices. I was raised in a Ford household and I like the idea of a distributor in easy reach without removing the bonnet.

I just wish Americans had a choice of cheap small diesels in the 200hp @4000 RPM & 300 lbft @ 2300 RPM range that got 25 miles per US gallon or better in a Series rig. That runs on used french fry oil.

[yorker]

Yorker,
You area veritable fount of projects!

So from what you are sending me I take it most people end up going the NP435 route. Have you found anyone using a NV4500 yet or is it too long/ too expensive?

Sure there are some who have used the NV4500, I just am more familiar withthe 4 speed swaps because $ for $ I think they are the way to go. There is no real reason why you couldn't use a NV4500

here you go nv4500:

http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/lonn_V8.htm

and just for kicks- since this is such a cool thread here is some Ford Fuel injection stuff for you:

http://www.fordfuelinjection.com/?p=6

[TeriAnn]

I am gradually building a spec for this vehicle.
For emissions reasons I am looking at a 67 or earlier vehicle and I think a pre 67 engine. Arizona seems to be getting more in line with California these days in regards to emissions.

California does not require emisions testing on anthing older than 1974 so my 1970 block puts it legally in the no testing required catagory. Howerver, I have fitted a 1991 Mustang EFI system which constantly tunes the engine for both power and low emissions and I have retained the PCV system so the engine runs much cleaner than it did in 1970 when the engine was built and in 1960 when the Land Rover was built. I would have installed the EFI's EGR system except that the cylinder heads don't have EGR passages. Anyway California tests 1974 & newer engines or vehicles which ever is newer and the vehicle must meet the emissions requirements for a vehicle built in that newer year. A LR aluminum V8 would require sealed fuel tanks, charcoal canisters and catalyic converters among other things.

I agreee with you. Best to stay legal within your state and any state a future owner might reside in.

Does Tim Cooper have a web site or does he offer stock adapters for Rover transfer cases to US gearboxes? I want a rear Salisbury and may have a line on a front too.

Timm Cooper does not do the Internet, web site or email. Rovers North sells his disc brake conversions but that's about it for other companies carrying his products. He does have an adapter for the NV4500 and for the NP435.

Series Trek, http://seriestrek.com has an adapter for the NP435 and he is on-line. He is in the process of engineering a conversion for the Mercedes 617 engine that a lot of people are following with great interest. It is a difficult conversion that a lot of experienced fabricators won't touch. But bit by bit, Jim seems to be working out the problems. If he offers a conversion kit it might become quite popular with the 109 crowd.

Best of luck with your project!

[TeriAnn]

For some unexplainable reason right now I fancy keeping my red and yellow knobs so want the series transfer case. I also quite fancy the idea of the NV4500 with more gears. This is, of course subject to length restrictions.

Timm Cooper is the only person I know of who has an adapter to mate a NV4500 to a Series transfercase. Everything is too long for an 88 but fits well in a 109. I think you would have to buy a gearbox with adapter mounted from him.

The final product I am shooting for is along the lines of this beastie:
http://www.eastcoastrover.com/Thompson109.html

It is a lovely looking vehicle that you could not legally register in California.

From their web site it seems they manage to use the Defender axles with series steel wheels.

The pre Disco II & pre RRII coiler wheels have the same bolt pattern as the Series rigs. My 1960 109 has had steel Discovery I wheels since early 1996. But the wheels on that vehicle could easily be Defender steel wheels as well. Except for the Discovery I steel wheels, the Wolf wheels and an early RR Classic steel wheel all the LR steel wheels look prety much the same and would be indistinguishable in a low rez jpeg taken of a vehicle.

[Willard]

I have been watching Jim's post and have one of his MBTB adapter - the series Transfer case. I am now rethinking this whole process and might just end up with either a Ford 302 or CHevy 350 (leaning to the ford as i have had several)
My 109 will have a V8 bulkhead out of a Defender 90 so i might be ok in the refabricating my bulkhead deal.
Now just to find a number for Timm.
I am intereted to see what adapters are out there as well for the conversion. I might avoid the T18 (although i never have had a problem with it in the past) but we will see.

All in all the conversion (aside form the adapter) will cost me about 2K less than the same MB conversion, that is if i rebuild the MB engine.
TeriAnn, been a long time reader of your website (actually it gave me the V8 idea) any ideas on the adapters? i would like to keep the Series transfercase at least.

[yorker]

TeriAnn, been a long time reader of your website (actually it gave me the V8 idea) any ideas on the adapters? i would like to keep the Series transfercase at least.

http://www.landroverusaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535

There is the Lightweight project- that is using the tranny and adapter I pictured above- Bought from Timm Cooper. Mercedes Jim bought his adapter from Ike Goss- it is nice, contrast the two adapters in the pictures in my post. Ike's is shorter which may be of some benefit to some swaps.

Maybe you can talk Ike into making one for you.

I think those are the only adapters out there right now to mount a NP435 to a Series T case.

There used to be some adapters to mount the T18 to the coiler LT230 transfer case. Or you can make the LT230 a divorced mount t-case.

Other than that you'll have to fab your own adapter or go to a different transfer case all together.

--------------------------------

TeriAnn- what MPG are you getting now with EFI? Can you break 20mpg highway or is 17-18 tops?

[greenmeanie]

The next question concerns the gearbox output shaft. Are all these conversions using a modified output shaft, a stubby adapter shaft or do the 10 spline set ups match?

If nothing else I am tempted to build up a drivetrain to have under the bench while I find a victim to inastall it on.

Cheers
Gregor

[yorker]

NP-435 info:

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np435.htm

loads more info:

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/knowledge_gateway.htm

[Willard]

http://www.landroverusaforums.com/fo...read.php?t=535

There is the Lightweight project- that is using the tranny and adapter I pictured above- Bought from Timm Cooper. Mercedes Jim bought his adapter from Ike Goss- it is nice, contrast the two adapters in the pictures in my post. Ike's is shorter which may be of some benefit to some swaps.

Thanks Yorker.

[greenmeanie]

Well after a bit of dredging around I fainlly settled on a 67 109 SW with a Chevy 292 mated to a series transmission. I am a little concerned about the longevity of this set up so am looking at other drivetrains. As it will take another month or so for it to get here (I really must finish my 101's rewire now) I having fun planning a few mods to make it more comfortable and driveable in the Phoenix heat. On paper I think I have already spent a years salary.

In the interests of my education I was thinking about the common knowledge that the series box is considered weak, or at least limited in its hp/torque capacity. When these boxes fail what is the failure mode? I have a distant memory about the layshaft but I would like to know how they actually fail.

Cheers
Gregor

[madp]

For what it is worth, my brother just imported my dad's series 1 '88 from Australia that he had installed a Holden(read Chevy) 260 or 292 six in it about 30 years ago, then drove around the outback for 2 years in it, and then it was used for a work truck for a long time. I remeber him telling us that the only problem with the six was the fuel consumption, and that the series 1 had weak axel shafts, so he always carried extra. That Motor/tranny set up still works great to this day.