Broken Down

[PH4]

Just had the pleasure of spending 2 1/2 hours on side of road. Was clipping along at a good pace (60 mph) and all of a sudden sounded like something metal came loose in the engine. Louder upon deaccerlation. Idles fine. At first I thought maybe fan was hitting fan cover but no such luck. Steady white smoke out of exhaust. Just had head gasket replaced last month. Any thoughts? Metal hitting metal sound.

[O'Brien]

you ran over and crushed a jeep?
just kidding man

i'm sure the wunderkinds will chime in soon with their thoughts

[ChrisB]

I am a shade-tree mechanic at best, but I had a similar problem recently in my IIA. Metal on metal sound coming from the radiator/shroud area that was erratic, but occurred regularly. The engine idled fine, but lost power on acceleration, esp. uphill, and the rattling sound got worse with acceleration.

It turned out that cylinder #1 was not firing and the spark plug was coated in fresh oil. After removing the valve cover, we discovered that the rocker arm was out of place, as the push rod was not contacting the rocker arm.

This accounted for the two problems. First, the "rattling" noise was from the rocker arm/push rod problem. #1 is closest to the fan, thus my (mistaken) belief that the noise was coming from the fan belt/shroud area. Second, the loss of power was from cylinder #1 not firing. Also, the accelerator linkage needed adjustment.

Good luck...

[enovey]

Have you checked the oil? White smoke out the pipe usually means water/condensation burning off unlike blue smoke which is usually oil. I would check your oil now to make sure whatever let go didn't lead to a crack where the water jacket has sprung a leak into the engine.
Sorry for the ramble, just trying to get an idea of where you are at...

[PH4]

checked oil it is clear and plenty of it. Very well may be cylinder #1. Whatever it is did not sound cheap.

[I Leak Oil]

If you can't see anything obvious then take off the valve cover and check the rocker arms, shafts, pushrods, springs, etc. White smoke is usually water burning off. Maybe the head gasket went again.
Jason T.

[Jeff Aronson]

Over the 18 years I've owned a Series II-A, my driving has been interrupted by a wide range of noises! Let me remember some of my engine issues.

You say that the engine runs ok at idle. Are you seeing the white smoke at idle, too? Is the noise similar regardless of speed?

If you're losing power on acceleration, then you may have broken a piston ring. That noise usually sounds like bells ringing. I've also had a valve burn out which made the engine run noisy yet idle ok. It certainly made the car lose power, too. Is the car running hot? A failing water pump makes a lot of noise, too. I've also had some carbon deposit break off in a cylinder and bang away with every compression stroke - pretty frightening. Marvel Mystery Oil took care of it almost immediately.

The suggestions made above are quite sound ones. At least you'll know the condition of the top of the engine.

Good luck!

Jeff

[PH4]

Thanks Jeff. It definitely sounds like someone put a bunch of pennies in a soup can and shakes them. It starts right up and tends to make more noise after you lift off the throttle. I was praying it was the fan hitting the fan shroud but no such luck. I spoke to Les while I was on the side of the road and he suggested taking connection off each spark plug one by one and see if that what stop it and identify if problem with a particular cylinder but no such luck.

[Daurie]

Pull the plugs and see how they look. Pull the valve cover and check the rockers. Both of those are simple jobs. You could also bring each piston up to TDC and fish around through the plug hole with a telescoping magnet and see what you bring up. Plus while youre turning over the engine slowly you could feel and listen for anthing out of the ordinary such as grinding. With an assistant and the plugs out you may be able to narrow it down to which hole is the offending one.

[Momo]

Banging sound

Great suggestions so far... just to put a little more detail on this one...like Chris I had a similar problem. Overheating (crud plugged radiator) was the root cause.

Was your head retorqued? Sounds like you may have blown the gasket again (white smoke). Check the coolant level, if it's dropped you are sure to have a blown head gasket, and you may not necessarily have oil in the radiator. And check the exhaust too for coolant smell.

Also, it may have gotten hot causing a stuck valve. If the valve sticks (down), the rocker arms will continue to cycle, and on the next cycle, the affected rocker will travel downward and having mostly lost contact with the valve stem end, you'll be getting the banging sound. Like Chris said, the rocker can move side to side around the valve stem and smack it during its travel. Not sure if you'd have valve crash with the piston crown, but I suspect not, that would be LOUD.

Pull the valve cover first. A thrown rocker should be obvious. Also check to see the locknuts on all rocker arm assemblies are tight- if one has backed off you could have excessive play causing the rocker to knock the valve stem on each revolution. Check the rocker assembly bolts for proper tightness- it could be moving if they are loose. Also look for a bent valve stem, and if you're ambitious, a bent pushrod. Checking for a bent pushrod will require removing the rocker assembly but that's pretty easy. If you see nothing out of place, fire it up with the valve cover off and watch the rockers/valve train. Once the motor is spinning you will see any obvious faults. But do so at your own risk...

Could also be a burnt valve. Check for a varnished valve indicating higher heat on that valve- like an oiled saucepan you got too hot. The valves and rockers should all be a satin grey color on a newly rebuilt or good condition head with regular oil changes during its service life.

Who replaced your head gasket? They may have screwed up in reassembly and if so they ought to pay for this one.

[PH4]

It may be my fault. My mechanic was pushing me to get a new radiator but it being the winter I was trying to get by for awhile. I was diligent in watching the temp. guage and it never registered over the middle. Has anyone had trouble with stock temp guage in instrument cluster? Any suggestions on where to get best quality/price radiator? I always try and get parts from our hosts because of exceptional service but $500 is more than I can put into a radiator. In addition, when climbing steep grade at 50mph it startled to knock under full throttle a month before breakdown. Thought the timing just off but maybe hint of something else?

I really need this motor to be reliable as it is my daily driver. I had to attend a meeting by phone yesterday because of the break down which was not good. I enjoy driving it so want to be able to take on 300+ mile trips. A new engine may solve problem but just looked at new one from RN and it is over $5k. Because of my work schedule I only have limited time to turn a spanner which means minor repairs. Maybe an overdrive will take some of stress off engine but I never push over 60mph and usually only 55mph. Lot of babble on my part but any advice appreciated.

[Tim Smith]

It may be my fault. My mechanic was pushing me to get a new radiator but it being the winter I was trying to get by for awhile. I was diligent in watching the temp. guage and it never registered over the middle. Has anyone had trouble with stock temp guage in instrument cluster? Any suggestions on where to get best quality/price radiator? I always try and get parts from our hosts because of exceptional service but $500 is more than I can put into a radiator. In addition, when climbing steep grade at 50mph it startled to knock under full throttle a month before breakdown. Thought the timing just off but maybe hint of something else?

I really need this motor to be reliable as it is my daily driver. I had to attend a meeting by phone yesterday because of the break down which was not good. I enjoy driving it so want to be able to take on 300+ mile trips. A new engine may solve problem but just looked at new one from RN and it is over $5k. Because of my work schedule I only have limited time to turn a spanner which means minor repairs. Maybe an overdrive will take some of stress off engine but I never push over 60mph and usually only 55mph. Lot of babble on my part but any advice appreciated.

PH4,
It sounds like you are getting overly worried about this. I think the advice put up earlier is all very good. I doubt that you melted your engine into junk so lets not start thinking about big bill items like that yet, shall we.

Personally I suspect the valve train and that's really pretty easy to check. If you were in my neighborhood, I'd stop by and check it for you. It would take all of 10-15 minutes to check.

As an aside, why does your mechanic want you to replace your radiator? Is it leaking beyond repair? Clogged? I'd be surprised if your radiator is just "worn out" and needing replacement. These old rovers can be kept going with much elbow grease and less flat out replacing of parts. That is in contrast to newer cars that have many non-serviceable parts which makes me wonder about your mechanic's diagnosis. But that's just me.

In the worst case, you could have burned out a ring or worse but try checking out some of the steps mentioned in the earlier posts before you think about replacing the motor. Thats right, roll up your sleeves and get dirty.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
Tim

[Terrys]

Tim's right. These radiators were made when they used good heavy cores. I have never junked one. You very likely might need to have it professionally boiled and backflushed, but that would be the total extent.

Engine "knocks" can come from a variety of problems. Much the same as the radiators, they too are stout enough to last till the next century, and very rebuildable. It can be as simple as retarded timing, to bad main or rod bearings. Piston slap too.

[PH4]

Thanks for the advice. Looks like I will have to really get into the engine. My mechanic checked the compression and got 0 on one of the cylinders. The piston in that cylinder is loose and not connected. in his words "something broke/let loose in the bottom end of the engine". I was not able to have an in depth conversation at that point and told him to hold off on tearing engine apart. After it happened I checked the oil and plenty of oil and clear as a bell.

In regards to the radiator, the actual cooling fins have been coming off at a pretty good clip this past year. But I am open to suggestions.

[Daurie]

How well do you know / trust your mechanic? This is just me talking but unless I have a personal relationship with a mechanic / independent shop, I wouldn't trust him/her as far as I could throw them. Don't get me wrong because I know there are trustworthy mechanics out there but I feel that finding the right one who won't take advantage of an individual with lesser knowledge concerning mechanic work takes time.

Maybe I've been hanging out around the wrong folks.. who knows. It may be worth your time to get a rover friend off of here to look over it, if there is one nearby, and then go from there.

There is some good advice on here and rolling up your sleeves and checking things out will be a good thing. You will either find and get your issue fixed or you will gather enough information to be well armed with information when you go in to get the repairs made.

Good Luck!