Understanding what makes a LR

[JimCT]

I know there seems to be a real trend here of trying to redesign the Series LR into something it never was. That is fine, but do not forget that the thing that makes them so unique is how Simple they are. You need a distributor, there is one. Easy to fix, simple parts. We take ours on long road trips because i know how easy it is to repair, and how simple. Try to find parts for your hybrid , custom, one-off mix of makers parts someplace in the middle of no where. Maybe the forum needs to split into a hybrid and a series forum? Just a thought.

[leafsprung]

Simple vs Original

Simplicity and originality are two different things. Doing a conversion doesnt mean making it complicated. . . in fact it can simplify it further! Lets face it, the chances of finding vintage rover parts in the middle of nowhere is pretty much nil whereas more modern/domestic parts are pretty plentiful and inexpensive anywhere. Ironically I think you will find that people do conversions for the very reason you keep yours stock! Plus theres already a hybrid forum. Personally I love stock rovers and have a few of them. However, the rover modified nicely/tastefully to suit the needs of its owner and what they use it for will always be more interesting. (which is why I have a few that arent stock)

[jp-]

It's the old originality vs. functionality. I don't think we need to split up the forum because of it. The beauty of it is, to each his own. I enjoy an original Land Rover, but that is just me. If someone else enjoys their Mercedes powered Land Rover, who am I to complain. It does what they want it to. Land Rovers have always been there to do what their owners needed them to do (and Land Rover stood by their modifications to accommodate many owners, albeit lacking the main thing many owners asked for - more power). When I was younger, I thought it was a sin to change an "original" Rover and part of me still does. But right now, I've got a 109" pickup in many pieces and when I rebuild it, I think I am going to put a different engine in it because I believe that will allow me to do more of what I want the vehicle to do.

[SalemRover]

Great, just point me to a link for;

Rovers North BBS Forums > Land Rover Technical Forums > SPOT

I will be posting all my ideas on upgrades there.

/tongue in cheek

-Jason

[Mercedesrover]

The modifications others and I have done are for the very reasons you mention. Reliability and simplicity. Yes, old Land Rovers in their original state are very easy to repair in the field. Trouble is, they seem to always need repair in the field. Why carry a spare pair of axle shafts when you can build axles that will never break? Sure, the original engine is simple and easily repaired, but why not install a diesel engine that, for all intents and purposes, never breaks down? Makes sense to me.

And most of the changes, conversions, adaptations, what-have-you are only complicated in their execution. The end results are more times than not simpler than what is being replaced, and if done correctly, more reliable, stronger and safer than what originally was there.

I don’t think anyone is trying to make their Land Rover into something it’s not, we’re all just trying to make them a bit better and more reliable at what they already do.

And hell, look at what Land Rover did to these trucks themselves. Different engines, different axles, all kinds of bodies. Holy cow...they even put a Buick V8 in a Land Rover?!?!?! Surely blasphemy!

[yorker]

I don't see any need to have a different forum. Series Land Rovers are ideal for conversions and it doesn't detract from their character or utility if done in a well engineered way. Should we tell TerriAnn to take a hike- that her kind of modifications and input aren't welcomed around here? How about Mercedes Jim? Honestly I got over this mentality a long time ago, what other people do to their trucks is their business, in fact it is pretty darned interesting. Certainly people might choose modifications that are foolish in someone else's eyes, but so what? As time goes on a lot of these modifications make more and more sense, indeed if LR also sought to change and improve their products as time went on- why can't we? Every vehicle is a compromise as built by its original manufacturer, if a person wants to alter his vehicle to fit their needs better then more power to them! We are not bound by the constraints that Land Rover was, we have access to the full spectrum of automotive components- why not take advantage of that if you can increase the utility of your vehicle for you?

[thixon]

JimCT,

where you just trying to start some SH(&?

[Jim-ME]

I feel that we as Rover owners have the right to modify our vehicles to meet our needs. If you don't like my choices you don't have to do them. If you are a purist great. If you want a 2008 Range Rover with all it's amenities with a Series body that's your right too. I personally think you are nuts but it's yours not mine. I went back to a Series because they don't have extrainous crap that breaks. I've alway hated full time 4X4 which was another strike for me against a Defender. When you add air, power windows, computers and the like I cringe. If that is the kind of stuff you want that's great. Against a lot of advice, I want a diesel engine. I haven't decided which one yet but it probably will not have a turbo and it definitely would have a computer. I simply love diesel. Hopefully this rant makes some kind of sense.
Jim

[gallf1]

New Forum?

Jim:
My "hybrid" 1971 SIIA109 with a Ford 302 V-8 and Borg Warner T-18 4 spd was built this way by me EXACTLY for the reasons you mention about being out in the boonies and not being able to find a LR water pump or a LR distributor part.
If my good ole american made Ford parts goes out on me, I can walk to the local parts store, scrap yard or shade tree mechanic and get a part.
Besides, my Ford motor at almost idle speeds puts out more HP and Torque than any LR motor designed for the SIIA.
From the outside, it looks like a stock LR 109 (that much I wouldnt modify due to the rugged good looks !) but inside, I need reliability, local parts availability plus parts at least 2/3's cheaper than OEM Rover parts

I know there seems to be a real trend here of trying to redesign the Series LR into something it never was. That is fine, but do not forget that the thing that makes them so unique is how Simple they are. You need a distributor, there is one. Easy to fix, simple parts. We take ours on long road trips because i know how easy it is to repair, and how simple. Try to find parts for your hybrid , custom, one-off mix of makers parts someplace in the middle of no where. Maybe the forum needs to split into a hybrid and a series forum? Just a thought.

[TSR53]

Easy boys - play nice .

RoversNorth.com Hybrid forum is here

[Jim-ME]

So far so good.

[TeriAnn]

I know there seems to be a real trend here of trying to redesign the Series LR into something it never was. That is fine, but do not forget that the thing that makes them so unique is how Simple they are.

Land Rover happily made any special design that anyone would pay for. There is an incredible verity of variants to be seen outside North America. Their standard models were largely based upon them not having a cash to upgrade tooling. But whatever your preferences I can understand you wanting to keep your Land Rover showroom stock. Am I'm glad some people do that as I enjoy looking at nicely restored stock Land Rovers at British Car field meets.

We each have our individual preferences and hopefully there is room for everyone without prejudice. Personally I like to drive my Land Rover long distances when I have gas money to do so and I like to play house inside my Land Rover. I don't particularly like to work on my Land Rover whilst on trips. I left my 109 stock for the first 15 years then I started making modifications for increased safety and reliability. Then 12 years ago I decided to modify my Land Rover to make long period camping more enjoyable (read more comfortable). The rest is herstory.

Try to find parts for your hybrid , custom, one-off mix of makers parts someplace in the middle of no where.

Actually most of the drive train modifications done to my Land Rover makes parts as easy to find as hitting the nearest chain auto parts store. And the parts are a lot cheaper. Try and find an Auto parts store in North America that doesn't stock parts for Ford small blocks or a transmission shop that has never seen a Borg Warner T-18 gearbox. I would have a much harder time if something let go in my Series transfercase. My disc brake components are late model GM parts. Also easily obtainable.

What's hard to replace at a moment's notice in a one gas station Arizona back country town? Besides Land Rover parts (which can be obtained at the speed of UPS red).

My radiator is a custom radiator but the mounts will accept just about anything out of a wrecking yard in a pinch. I have SeriesTrek front 24 spline axles, but I don't expect to break them anytime soon and I've off roaded with broken front axles before. My Great Basin propshafts take common off the shelf U joints. The aluminum adapter plate sandwiched between the gearbox and transfercase is probably the least likely part on the vehicle to be destroyed. The electric fan is off a V8 Mercedes, My relays are off the shelf GM and Ford. Hoses are Goodyear.

I would think that replacing my genuine Land Rover parts would be about the hardest part of recovering from a vehicle stopping breakdown (which I have yet to have in 30 years of driving my Land Rover). When I needed Land Rover parts on the trail, a phone call has brought them to me via red label UPS.

If anything the drive train is way more robust than stock. Almost all of my non-Land Rover parts are much more robust than equiv. Series parts, cheaper and easier to come by.

But I do enjoy looking at nicely restored showroom stock Series Land Rovers.

[yorker]

Honestly when you break a Series Land Rover down to its most basic concept what IS it? A light duty vehicle- leaf sprung, solid axle, 2 speed transfer case, 4 speed transmission and simple 4 cylinder engine. It is a beautifully simple concept and a readily adaptable platform. What a wonderful thing! Plug and play within that and I don't think you can really go wrong as long as you make sure whatever you replace meets or exceeds the original Rover items.

Heck if you had the $ back in the 1960s I bet you could have convinced Land Rover to put F+R ENVs under an 88 if you so desired.

Is modification sacrilege? Maybe but it also has kept a lot more Land Rovers on the road than would be true otherwise. Just look at the condition of the Rovers Jim Young has brought home and rebuilt. They were headed for the crusher, even IF a purist had interceded they'd probably have just seen a fate as a parts car- picked apart and doled out over eBay- a sad fate for any vehicle.

[NC Rover]

I know there seems to be a real trend here of trying to redesign the Series LR into something it never was. That is fine, but do not forget that the thing that makes them so unique is how Simple they are. You need a distributor, there is one. Easy to fix, simple parts. We take ours on long road trips because i know how easy it is to repair, and how simple. Try to find parts for your hybrid , custom, one-off mix of makers parts someplace in the middle of no where. Maybe the forum needs to split into a hybrid and a series forum? Just a thought.

Unfortunately (or not so unfortunate) some of us acquired our rover after the previous owner already turned it into a hybrid. It is difficult for me to ask questions sometimes mainly b/c its tough to know what originally came from what when half is a D90 and the other half is a Series. I dubbed my rover "Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde"

A lot of people on the series forum have really helped me understand what originally went where and what to look out for even though a portion of my vehicle is part of the D90 bloodline. Plus I think maybe talking about my hybrid has given others a few ideas to ponder and possibly help them fabricate something to customize their vehicle to what suits them?

[NC Rover]

Land Rover happily made any special design that anyone would pay for. There is an incredible verity of variants to be seen outside North America. Their standard models were largely based upon them not having a cash to upgrade tooling. But whatever your preferences I can understand you wanting to keep your Land Rover showroom stock. Am I'm glad some people do that as I enjoy looking at nicely restored stock Land Rovers at British Car field meets.

We each have our individual preferences and hopefully there is room for everyone without prejudice. Personally I like to drive my Land Rover long distances when I have gas money to do so and I like to play house inside my Land Rover. I don't particularly like to work on my Land Rover whilst on trips. I left my 109 stock for the first 15 years then I started making modifications for increased safety and reliability. Then 12 years ago I decided to modify my Land Rover to make long period camping more enjoyable (read more comfortable). The rest is herstory.


Actually most of the drive train modifications done to my Land Rover makes parts as easy to find as hitting the nearest chain auto parts store. And the parts are a lot cheaper. Try and find an Auto parts store in North America that doesn't stock parts for Ford small blocks or a transmission shop that has never seen a Borg Warner T-18 gearbox. I would have a much harder time if something let go in my Series transfercase. My disc brake components are late model GM parts. Also easily obtainable.

What's hard to replace at a moment's notice in a one gas station Arizona back country town? Besides Land Rover parts (which can be obtained at the speed of UPS red).

My radiator is a custom radiator but the mounts will accept just about anything out of a wrecking yard in a pinch. I have SeriesTrek front 24 spline axles, but I don't expect to break them anytime soon and I've off roaded with broken front axles before. My Great Basin propshafts take common off the shelf U joints. The aluminum adapter plate sandwiched between the gearbox and transfercase is probably the least likely part on the vehicle to be destroyed. The electric fan is off a V8 Mercedes, My relays are off the shelf GM and Ford. Hoses are Goodyear.

I would think that replacing my genuine Land Rover parts would be about the hardest part of recovering from a vehicle stopping breakdown (which I have yet to have in 30 years of driving my Land Rover). When I needed Land Rover parts on the trail, a phone call has brought them to me via red label UPS.

If anything the drive train is way more robust than stock. Almost all of my non-Land Rover parts are much more robust than equiv. Series parts, cheaper and easier to come by.

But I do enjoy looking at nicely restored showroom stock Series Land Rovers.

You inspire me.