Electrical Issue with starter

[Doug C]

'66 IIa 109

Here is the situation... when I go to start the rover, I turn the key, the instrument panel lights up and then I press the starter button and nothing happens and the instrument lights go out. Basically, when I press the starter button (I know there is a better term, I apologize) it kills everything. Has anyone had this problem, is it something simple? I know it is not the battery and the thing is, this is a brand new problem, it has always started up just fine until now.

[east high]

Does the starter still turn over when you push the button? I know you disagree, but I still want to say it's a battery/charging thing. The battery is hooked directly to the starter via the starter button, which sends the current to the starter when pushed. You don't need to turn the key to activate the starter. Turning the key just sends juice to the ignition system, lights, etc.

If you get it running again, test the output of the generator to see if you're getting the voltage you need (12+).

[Tim Smith]

Also sounds like a possible ground issue on the main leads. When you hit the starter, do you hear anything? Yes turn down the stereo and listen.

[Doug C]

literally, when I press the starter, all electricity goes out... panel lights I mean. Now, if I pop the hood and take a circut tester and connect the negative end to the neg on the battery and the positive to the positive on the battery, it will start up just fine although last weekend when I did this operation to get her started (at the park nontheless with my 1.5 year old daughter and my wife with everyone staring at us) the circut tester acted as a mig welder and got welded onto the positive terminal of the battery... it worked to get the car started though. I don't know why this would work, I know nothing about electricity, but it works, so I know it is not the battery. The thing that really gets me is the fact that for months the rover sat in the drive way without a clutch and it would start up everytime (albeit it would go anywhere), now that I have the clutch in and can drive it, it has developed this electrical problem. If its not one thing its another. Is there any way to troubleshoot an electrical issue... any steps I should take to narrow it down? Any help would be much appreciated.

[leafsprung]

problem

Sounds like you have it narrowed down. You know the battery is good, you know the starter is good. Its obviously something in between. Just start checking your connections, grounds, switch etc

[Tim Smith]

Doug,
It's actually quite simple. You have a bad connection some where. When you did the clutch, you might have bumped a main connection (battery terminals or ground or starter) or at least loosened them up enough that when you ask for the juice, it shorts the system.

Check your battery leads and main grounds to the engine/starter and also your starter main feed. Having just done a clutch, you were right down in there close enough to fizzle the Lucas smoke.

Have heart, these things are ages old and not at all like a modern car. There are only so many things to go wrong but they are old...

If you can't find any thing wrong, then add an extra ground cable from the chassis to the block and see what happens.

Cheers!

[SafeAirOne]

Doug, I've got a starting crank handle I don't need. You're welcome to it. Electric starters are for sissies anyway!

Seriously, though, is your Rover a positive-earth or a negative-earth? The power distribution is somewhat different, depending on what you have. It sounds as if you have the positive-earth.

if I pop the hood and take a circut tester and connect the negative end to the neg on the battery and the positive to the positive on the battery, it will start up just fine

Does this mean that: a) when you connect the tester to the battery, the engine suddenly begins to crank or b) when you connect the tester to the battery and someone presses the starter, the engine cranks or c) you put the tester on the battery, then remove the tester THEN hit the starter switch, the engine cranks?

Either way, I don't think the tester has anything to do with it. The more I think about it (and look at the schematic), The more I think it could be narrowed down to:

1) Battery terminals corroded/bad contact with terminals (Tim Smith's analysis)
2) Battery itself (or charging system) (east high's analysis)
3) Bad/corroded large wire from the neg battery terminal to starter button
4) Bad/corroded/disconnected large wire from starter button to starter
5) Poor or no electrical continuity from the starter to the engine block or chassis
6) Poor or no electrical continuity between pos battery terminal and chassis/engine block (providing you have a positive-earth Rover. (3-6 are leafsprung's analysis)

Out of curiosity, how do you know it's not the battery? I wouldn't scratch the battery off the list of suspects unless you grabbed the battery out of your wife's car, hooked it up and had the same problem. (Or alternatively, put YOUR battery in HER car and see if SHE gets stranded somewhere ) If your wife's battery works in the Rover, I'd still put your old battery back in and confirm that the problem comes back (because you it could have just been a lousy contact between the battery terminals and cables that was cured by fiddling around with the leads during troubleshooting)

My money is on a disconnected/loose wire at the starter or at the battery.

[SafeAirOne]

Wiring Diagram (schematic)

Doug,

If your Rover is a positive-earth, the wiring diagram is at:

http://roversnorth.com/store/pc-259-276-page-83-land-rover-series-iia-225-litre-electrical-circuit-diagram-positive-earth.aspx

If you look at the top left corner of the UPPER diagram, you'll see just how simple the system is. There are only 3 components (4 if you count the wires themselves).

Electricity comes out of the positive side of the battery (item #1), through the chasis and engine block to the starter (item #13)(connection NOT depicted, but rather implied), then through a fat wire to the starter button/switch (item #12), then, when contact is made on the switch, through a fat wire and back to the negative battery terminal. There are no other items in the circuit to crank the starter motor.

The engine ignition system is separate, but it sounds as if the problem is in the cranking, not the firing of the spark plugs to get the engine running.

Good Luck!

[scott]

my money is on the started button or the starter button connections. jump start worked but the button doesn't. check to make sure it's secured tightly to the dash and that the wires going into the button are "in" and the screws tight. careful, my oil pressure line runs real close to the connector side of the starter button and while fiddling with it (forgot to disconecct the neg bat cable) i got sparks and fried the wire from the stater button to the battery.

[Momo]

I vote for bad connection somewhere. Is your battery held down tight? If it slides or moves the cables can work loose over time.

I used to have one of those el cheapo battery disconnect terminal ends on my truck. The kind with the knob you unscrew to break the circuit:


Anyway, I sometimes had the exact same issue you are having. It was that crappy switch every time. The thing had burn marks on it from arcing.