Curious about crash damage in a series

[thixon]

I've seen a number of comments in posts indicating that most here believe that a wreck involving a series truck and another vehicle will go badly for the other (non series) vehicle. That is of course if the frame of said series truck is in new/good shape.

I'm not disputing this, I've just never known anyone with a series to be unlucky enough to be involved in an accident with another vehicle on the street.

A rear-ender would obviously not go well for the offending vehicle running up the tail pipe of a series truck. However, I would'nt be so confident about a t-bone or head on.

So, I'm curious. Has anyone here ever had this happen? If so, how did it work out for your truck, and the other car/truck?

[Mercedesrover]

I wouldn't want to get hit in one. Series trucks are a lot of things, but safe in a crash isn't one of the things that come to mind.

Crappy seatbelts, if any, unless you've upgraded to something else
No high back seats (Unless you've installed them yourself)
No crumple-zones in the front or the rear
No side impact protection at all
Steel dash (I, II, IIIA)
Weak roofs and upper sides - no rollover protection
Etc., etc....

I have rock sliders on my 88" and am putting them on my 109 tonight for really no other reason than to protect the occupants should I get slammed in the side.

[Bostonian1976]

this is one of the key things that keeps me from using my Series as an everyday vehicle - seen too many people flying around Boston slamming into other people/things

[greenmeanie]

Well from experience you can role an 88 at 40 mph and it holds up rather well. Don't ask how I know that one.

I've been thumped up the back end at a stop sign by a Dodge pick up. This was at very low speed. He lost every panel on the front drivers side of his truck. The series tub folded like tissue paper, the rear corner of the cross member bent and everything stopped when it ecountered the box frame. In a serious collision don't expect a series body to stop anything - about the only protection you get is if you are inside the footprint of the chassis ladder.

Finally I left a nice deep groove in an Escalade as he was on his mobile and changed lanes into me. I caught him with the front bumper and crease from his driver's door on back to the rear wheel arch and the OEM bumper didn't fold. It wasn't however, a serious crash test.

I forget his name but there was a series owner killed on the I10 outside Phoenix back in the late 90's because he was rear ended. My understanding is a snapped back/neck because of oem seats but someone may know better.

I'm with Jim on the sliders - that is a huge safety improvement. High back seats and decent seat belts are only common sense for anything other than a show truck. The simple thing is you are not driving a tank - it is a 40 odd year old truck that just doesn't meet modern safety standards. If nothing else the solid steel spike of a steering column should get you thinking.

I'm sure I'm misquoting but "The best safety system in a car is the driver."

Cheers
Gregor

Oh, I use mine as a daily driver and to rumble down the I10 to Tucson regularly.

[thixon]

[quote=greenmeanie]

I'm sure I'm misquoting but "The best safety system in a car is the driver."

quote]
Green,
Agreed. The seats and belts are a no brainer. I'm planning on going the same route you did in your 109 with the bestop highback jeep seats. By the way, do you have another photo or two of what you did? I deleted the ones you sent me a while back (accidental). I've also toyed with the idea of a cage of some sort, but to do that I'd have to buy a bender (damn, another tool).

The sliders are a good idea. I hav'nt decided if I'm going to build my own, or just plunk down the cash for a set. I've never seen a pre-made set up close. Are they pretty substantial? Putting this truck back together has already been more invloved than i originally thought/planned (party because I keep finding other things to work on), so I may just buy a set.

[ACP30470]

I've been a paramedic and firefighter for the better part of a quarter century. My specialty is motor vehicle extrication, Capt of my departments Jaws Of Life (heavy rescue) crew for the past 12 years.

The differences in motor vehicles designed 30 - 40 years ago (series LR) versus modern technology (crumple and impact zones) is like comparing apples to oranges. A well maintained series vehicle (solid frame etc) could probably withstand a serious impact but kinetic forces from the crash would have the driver bouncing around like a pinball. The modern design would collapse and wrap itself around the driver. I have responded to MVC's where the car had minor damage and was driveable (1970's era) but the driver DOA. Responding to more recent MVC's with a car totally trashed, having to spend 45 min to an hour on extrication only to have the driver walk out of the ER a few hours later with minor injuries.

Drive defensably, drive safe, drive smart, and realize the enviroment that a series rover is intended for. Be ever vigilant when mixing it up in traffic.

The real question is driver/passenger survivability, because vehicles are made every day and can be replaced, we cannot.

[jp-]

My brother crashed our 109" when I was about 16. He hit two 6" steel concrete filled poles (that were buried 1’ deep in more concrete) and a no parking sign. I have no idea how fast he was going and he never talked about the wreck. It was also the last time that he ever drove the Rover. The first pole hit the OEM bumper just about dead center and Vee’d it. The second pole hit closer to the left frame horn. The left horn bent down about 1” and the short tie rod snapped as the poles went under the vehicle. No body panels were damaged at all (not even the front apron panel). The poles were destroyed. The Rover drove home, with one front wheel steering. My brother was not injured.

The mangled No Parking sign hangs on my wall.

[SafeAirOne]

This isn't a terribly good example because it didn't involve another vehicle, just a 6" diameter maple tree:

When I was a teenager, I was doing something foolish in my '69 88": It was "cool" to have as much mud as possible on your truck in high school and...[I'll skip the really foolish stuff and cut straight to the end of the story]...the rover, in reverse, bounced up out of the muddy rut and straight into the maple tree.

When I tried to get out to check for damage, my driver's door wouldn't open. The top was off, so I climbed out and checked it out--an 18" section of chassis was broken off above the left rear wheel!

I learned a lot about rover chassis that day (and doing risky/stupid things in your only mode of transportation). It may have looked fine on the outside, but the entire chassis was a crumple zone on my first rover.

[PH4]

Glad you started this thread. I drive both my 109 SW and 109 regular without top as daily drivers. I have three point retractable belts in both LRs. Other than the addition of highback seats and a roll cage (not bar) I cannot think of how you could make a LR come even remotely close to a modern Volvo or similar car. Having said that I am not sure from what I have unfortunatly seen you would be much better in a late model 15 passenger van, S10 Blazer etc.

Would like to see any pics of roll cages installed in 109 SWs or Regulars.

[Tim Smith]

Here are some interesting test videos:
Fifth Gear - When an SUV rams a smaller car


Fifth Gear Crash Test Renault Espace vs Land Rover Discovery


Fifth Gear Smart Car Crash Test


The mitsu v.s. civic video is kind of an eye opener. Although I'd rather be in the 4x4, I'm not sure I would be quite the same after realizing the consequences to the civic occupants.

[daveb]

there was a guy in ottawa that got t-boned by a "yank tank" in his 88. I saw photos of the aftermath, it got hit on the passenger side. he survived but was knocked unconscious by the rock slider flying up and into the car...

I'll try to find the photos.

I know two people who were rear ended by large pickups, one was driving a ROW 110 and the other was driving a 109 SW. Both LR vehicles emerged from those encounters virtually unscathed and the offending vehicle was totaled.

Another guy in ottawa's father died when he was driving an 88 that was rear ended by a large truck. Similar story here, forget whose vehicle it was but the 88 was launched into the air, forget what the occupant outcome was.

There's a site somewhere on the web by a chap who was paralyzed when his 109SW laid on its side on a highway and was subsequently hit on the underside by an 18 wheeler. The pictures showed the chassis was bent nearly in half.

I think the key is in having a solid chassis. Chassis that are sufficiently strong for daily driving and even offroading may reveal themselves to be quite thin during a wreck of any kind.

rgrds
dave

I wouldn't want to get hit in one. Series trucks are a lot of things, but safe in a crash isn't one of the things that come to mind.

Crappy seatbelts, if any, unless you've upgraded to something else
No high back seats (Unless you've installed them yourself)
No crumple-zones in the front or the rear
No side impact protection at all
Steel dash (I, II, IIIA)
Weak roofs and upper sides - no rollover protection
Etc., etc....

I have rock sliders on my 88" and am putting them on my 109 tonight for really no other reason than to protect the occupants should I get slammed in the side.

[msggunny]

88's

You are sitting on top of 10 gallons of fuel that is unprotected from side impact.

Ever see a Ford Pinto get rear-ended?

[jp-]

I also wanted to add, that anytime the vehicle comes to a stop in an accident, the likelihood of injury goes up dramatically. If, in my brother's case, the poles had stopped the Rover then I believe he would have been injured as his momentum would have propelled him into the steering wheel / bulkhead. By continuing forward motion, the impact was expanded over a greater length of time. Imagine hitting a concrete wall, the vehicle cannot continue forward, so you must. As someone else mentioned, it's all steel on the inside.

And what is a "yank tank?"

[LaneRover]

And what is a "yank tank?"

Well, since it was unlikely that he got hit by an M1 Abrams tank I would say that a 'Yank Tank' refers to any BIG American made car. Of course to me it conjures up memories of the huge Mercury Marquis Stationwagons that we had when I was a kid back in the 70's. The amazing thing was that Dad could still hit us when we were all the way in the back and he was driving!

[daveb]

And what is a "yank tank?"

well, if you are a simpsons fan, think "Canyonero."

if not, well, H2 or 3, Escalade, Ford Exploder, Navigator, Expedition, Suburbia, any of the above.