Is there a less expensive way to convert to dual brake master?

[thixon]

Well,

Last weekend, I installed my newly restored bulkhead. I then immediatly removed it. Again, my SPO has screwed me with his creative antics. He installed the brake junction right under the bulkhead, so there's no way to run a line into the junction from the brake master.

So, now that I have to get into dealing with re-positioning the junction and monkeying with the lines, I may as well look at upgrading to a dual master.

Has anyone found a dual master that will fit the original IIA pedal box? I'm looking into this now, and may well come up with a way pretty quick. I'd like to avoid having to buy an sIII box, brake booster, and cylinder. I'm checking pegasus racings web page, and hope to find a suitable cylinder for the box, and run with a remote reservior.

If anyone has already done this, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know what you did, and what part numbers/sources you used.

Oh yeah, no I don't care about having power asst brakes.

thanks,

[Mercedesrover]

Used Series III tower, aftermarket booster, aftermarket master. You'll thank yourself in the end.

[thixon]

Used Series III tower, aftermarket booster, aftermarket master. You'll thank yourself in the end.

I'm assuming here, that your position is I'd be happier with the power option? You may be right. In thinking about this further, I'd end up with three remote reservoirs (two for the brakes, one for the clutch).

Is there another reason, other than the power asst that makes you say I'd be happier? Just curious.

BTW, I found a wilwood remote res. dual cylinder for just ove $100. I'm checking on the piston stroke now to see how it compares.

[greenmeanie]

The seriesIII set up is probably the least hassle. If you know what you are getting into you could look at Willwood or adapting a Toyota set up which wsa in a post a long time ago.

It comes down to how much do you value just buying parts vs your time, knowledge and fab skills?


Cheers
Gregor

[thixon]

The seriesIII set up is probably the least hassle. If you know what you are getting into you could look at Willwood or adapting a Toyota set up which wsa in a post a long time ago.

It comes down to how much do you value just buying parts vs your time, knowledge and fab skills?


Cheers
Gregor

Gotcha.

Right now I'm leaning toward the wilwood remote setup. I plan to measure everything up tonight, using the info on wilwoods website. I'll post in the morning with the results. If it looks like it fits okay, without having to do too much pedal box moding, I may go that route.

[Mercedesrover]

Be careful there....That Wildwood master is build for disks I'm sure and as such won't have the volume you'll need to fill the wheel cylinders on a drum brake system.

[thixon]

Be careful there....That Wildwood master is build for disks I'm sure and as such won't have the volume you'll need to fill the wheel cylinders on a drum brake system.

Actually,
A disc brake system usually requires more cyclinder volume than a drum brake system.

And you're right, the wilwood is made for discs. That said, my worry is that it will move too large a volume of fluid, and I'll get a pedal so stiff that it won't be worth it.

It appears the wilwood cylinder moves a greater volume of fluid than the lucas/girling stock cylinder.

I found three different bore sizes listed for the lucas/girling. .62", .70", and .75". The stroke on each is 1.375". Assuming that the largest bore sized cylinder is used on a rover (I know, I just made an ass out of u and ming), the volume of fluid moved is .608 in3

The Willwood double has a bore size of 1", and a stroke of 1.10". Here I get .864 in3 of fluid moved.

That appears to be a big difference.

Also, I have not looked at pedal ratios.

Any thoughts?

[jp-]

Ok, I may be a little thick here, but are you going to isolate the front and rear brakes with the new Willwood?

The original system used one output feeding 4 brakes. .608 in^3

Is the new system going to have seperate outputs for the front and rear? If so, wouldn't that be half of the .864 in^3 feeding both front and rear, so .432 front and .432 rear?

Still probably would be fine. Hell it may get rid of the double pumping.

[adkrover]

I'd agree with Mercedes, a used Series 3 pedal assembly and new booster + cylinder really isn't that much money when you consider the amount of time you'll be putting into it otherwise. Especially when you're talking about such an important safety item. Also, the first part you buy that won't fit and you're suddenly pedalling backward on your budget savings.

I have a Series 3 system on my S2 and it works great. The drums took some adjusting to get them all 4 balanced properly but with the added vacuum booster it stops great. If you are going to the trouble to upgrade and custom fab., then you should be certain that it will issolate front and rear systems. It's a very important safety item.

I guess if you are on a very tight budget or just really love to tinker then certainly there is a brake master out there that will fit somehow. If you sort it out, please let everyone know how it goes.

[greenmeanie]

If you sort it out, please let everyone know how it goes.

Do a search on threads by Galf1. He has a nicely set up 109 with a Toyota Master cylinder. The thread is back there somewhere.

Cheers
Gregor

[thixon]

After reading through posts, and consulting with the resident experts, I've decided to go with SIII set up. Guess I'll be cutting my wing!


Thanks as always for the opinions. I'm about to make another post asking for photos/measurements so I can make the necessary mods. I have a bit of a wait for the SIII pedal box I bought.

Thanks,

[LaneRover]

After reading through posts, and consulting with the resident experts, I've decided to go with SIII set up. Guess I'll be cutting my wing!


Thanks as always for the opinions. I'm about to make another post asking for photos/measurements so I can make the necessary mods. I have a bit of a wait for the SIII pedal box I bought.

Thanks,

On one of my trucks I cut the wing. On my other truck I got ahold of a series III wing, took it apart, combined the 2 wings into one with a Series IIA outer and front with the Series III inner which gave room for the booster. Of course if you have an already bent/dented/tweaked wing than it is a bunch of work for something not many people will notice.