help! engine siezed

[badvibes]

clues for the clueless

on those cheap frams the bypass valve must not work very good. turning the adapter upside-down reverses the flow through the filter. NOT a good thing.

did you pull the spark plugs yet?

daveb-

I just checked my spin on adapter and see that mine also points to the back of the motor with a bit of a downward slant. If I'm getting this it should sit 180* from that, facing to the front of the motor and slightly upward? I've been running it this way for several years like somebody earlier posted, Moose I think. So I've just been lucky. You'd recommend switching it around to sit the other way?

Jeff

[daveb]

the sending units are supposed to point forward I believe.

alas, no 2.25's here anymore. I would check with the vendor you bought it from. mine used fram ph8a or ford/motorcraft fl1a filters.

good luck.

are you sure it's in neutral?

I know.

But you have to ask these things.

daveb-

I just checked my spin on adapter and see that mine also points to the back of the motor with a bit of a downward slant. If I'm getting this it should sit 180* from that, facing to the front of the motor and slightly upward? I've been running it this way for several years like somebody earlier posted, Moose I think. So I've just been lucky. You'd recommend switching it around to sit the other way?

Jeff

[SafeAirOne]

Fram Oil Filters....

the newly installed gauge was reading 40 at an idle. with a rev it went up to 60. i notice this cause i just installed the new gauge and was checking it. i remember telling badvibes that that's the highest i've ever seen it. usually it was about 20 at an idle and 45 while driving.

I don't know if we're still in the "what went wrong" stage here, but high oil pressure is a symptom of an obstruction in the lubrication system, depending on where in the system the pressure sensor is located.

I just went to the fram oil filter website. It turns out that size doesn't matter (filter wise). Its the type. I'll bet you installed either a:

1) Tough Guard
2) Extended Guard or (Less likely) a
3) Synthetic Oil Filter.

Reason I picked these is that they feature an "ANTI-DRAINBACK VALVE, Which "protects your engine by retaining oil when engine is off so your engine benefits from a full filter at start-up."

Unfortunately, if your spin on adapter is plumbed backwards, it will block flow through the filter.

See: http://www.fram.com/products/oilFilters.php

[badvibes]

Mark-

Guess I've been lucky and am flirting with disaster. I've got about 1000 miles since my last oil change and I'm running a TG16 filter. That's the "Tough Guard" Fram filter. I went out and checked my spin-on adapter and its pointed the wrong orientation. I'll change it tomorrow. Thanks to all of you who have posted the right info, you may have just saved my motor. It only has @ 6 or 7K miles on it.

Jeff

[scott]

...
are you sure it's in neutral?

I know.

But you have to ask these things.

yea it's in neutral. tested that by hooking it to the back of the wife's lr and dragging it 8 miles home

[SafeAirOne]

Mark-

Guess I've been lucky and am flirting with disaster. I've got about 1000 miles since my last oil change and I'm running a TG16 filter. That's the "Tough Guard" Fram filter. I went out and checked my spin-on adapter and its pointed the wrong orientation. I'll change it tomorrow. Thanks to all of you who have posted the right info, you may have just saved my motor. It only has @ 6 or 7K miles on it.

Jeff

Yeah--I was just looking at the Fram website again ( http://www.fram.com/products/oilFilters.php )

If you hit the "technology" button on the Tough Guard oil filter, it shows an exploded view--It looks as though the oil enters the filter through the series of little holes and comes out the big threaded hole in the middle. The Tough Gurad features a bypass valve which I don't think would help if the adapter is plumbed backwards either.

Out of curiosity, did you use any additives or synthetic oil? By all accounts, if you used this filter and had your adapter plumbed wrong for the last 6500 miles, your engine should be in the same state as Scott's...

[rivertonrovers]

just wondering

I was just flipping through here and was wondering.... Is there a possibility that when your starter ran on that you had some bits fall down and got wedged between the ring gear and the housing?

Bill@ Riverton Rovers

[SafeAirOne]

I just went to the fram oil filter website. It turns out that size doesn't matter (filter wise). Its the type. I'll bet you installed either a:

1) Tough Guard
2) Extended Guard or (Less likely) a
3) Synthetic Oil Filter.

Also, add the High-Mileage filter (HM16 for expmple) It doesn't mention it on the website, but I've just watched the very exciting "See How it Works" video for the Fram High-Mileage filters and the video clearly shows the "Anti-Drainback" valve in the HM series of filters.

Also, there is a similar thread on another board. About halfway down, they come around to the subject of adapter installation. See:

http://www.landroversonly.com/forums/f7/spin-filter-adapter-23790/

[badvibes]

Out of curiosity, did you use any additives or synthetic oil? By all accounts, if you used this filter and had your adapter plumbed wrong for the last 6500 miles, your engine should be in the same state as Scott's...

Mark-

No synthetics. Just Quaker State 20W-50.

Jeff

[scott]

I was just flipping through here and was wondering.... Is there a possibility that when your starter ran on that you had some bits fall down and got wedged between the ring gear and the housing?

Bill@ Riverton Rovers

nope, first thing i removed was the starter. it's in tact and bench tests fine

[yorker]

I've had Fram filters with faulty anti drainback valves right out of the box. I'd look to another brand-once you have assured that your filter adapter is correctly installed....

http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html

[jp-]

I was just flipping through here and was wondering.... Is there a possibility that when your starter ran on that you had some bits fall down and got wedged between the ring gear and the housing?

Bill@ Riverton Rovers

Good thought Bill. My dad had this happen on the 109. A bolt was left in the bell housing and it locked up the works.

Scott, try turning the motor counterclockwise, just a little bit.

Also, I fail to see how a spin on adapter can be bolted on wrong. The one that I put on the 88" could only go two ways, with the oil filter pointing straight up, or straight down. And since no oil filters point straight up, it had to go down.

P.S. - Fram sucks.

[SafeAirOne]

Also, I fail to see how a spin on adapter can be bolted on wrong. The one that I put on the 88" could only go two ways, with the oil filter pointing straight up, or straight down.

There are 2 types of adapters. One that bolts to the block then makes a 90-degree turn down and one where the filter sticks out sideways. See the 2 photos. Apparently the second kind can be installed 180 degrees wrong with the supply port over the return port on the block and vice-versa (or is it vise-versa?)

[daveb]

literally lol. wish I had some better ideas! let us know what happens

yea it's in neutral. tested that by hooking it to the back of the wife's lr and dragging it 8 miles home

[Moose]

With a cheapish filter, the oil will flow through backwards if your spin on adapter is mounted reversed. Believe me, I know. In my case, I had been running the 88 for a good 10 years or more. Then one day my case of Fram filters was empty. I bought a new filter, changed the oil that afternoon and set out for work. About 12 miles later, the engine seizes.

Few days later, we strip the engine down. The main bearings are knackered, so a grinding of the crank, new bearings, a thorough cleaning for the internals and it all goes back together complete with new oil and filter. Two miles up the road, the engine seizes. WTF!!!

Another strip down and this time, the bearings are toast, but the crank is still good. New bearing, another cleaning... and then we get smart. Why is this happening? We check every oil way we can find. All looks good. Then I notice my buddy Dave Lowe staring at the spin on oil filter adapter.

"Brett" he says "is this thing on the right way around? I think the oil pressure sender is supposed to be to the front"

"Yep, it's right, checked it myself. The wire to the oil pressure sender won't reach if it were on the other way", I says. "That's the way it's always been".

Then we get smarter. After a bit of research, (and a look at Dave's 88) we realize that yes, the thing is mounted 180 out. Bugga! But we wonder why the engine has been running fine all these years, then all of a sudden...

So we cut a filter in half for a look see. Sure enough, we spy the anti drain back business. Still curious though, we get on the phone to Fram. Turns out, about two years previous, they "improved" the anti drain back in there filters, and lucky me, they actually worked.

With the adapter mounted correctly, new oil and filter added, the engine has been running fine since.

I don't know if all the spin on adapters are created equal, but mine needs to be mounted with the oil pressure port pointing towards the front of the engine, tilted slightly up. Might be a good idea for anybody's who's is facing to the rear, to check and find out exactly which way it should face. May save you some grief down the road.

Brett