Electrice Series?

[Tim Smith]

I'd have to agree with the comments above. Certainly there are pluses and minuses to switching to electric. Going electric couldn't really be a panacea, saving us from global warming but rather a fun engineering exercise.

And to say that going electric would be just a rich persons toy might be a stretch. Just look at some of the rolling junk that people are converting...

http://www.evalbum.com/

Although, these two aren't too crappy if you ask me.

http://www.evalbum.com/type/LAND

Cheers!

[adkrover]

I think you'd find that most people do their driving within the reasonable range for electric vehicles. I suppose there are exceptions if you are a salesman that travels a great deal or a postal worker that is driving all day but for the most part they would work for our daily vehicles. To say that if I can't drive from one major city to another non-stop means we shouldn't bother with electric vehicles is pretty stupid in my opinion. It reminds me of a guy I had on a job once that said because the windows in a house only have an R-value of about 2 that we shouldn't bother insulating the walls. That kind of thinking is just wrong. If we all had an electric vehicle to use for our daily driving within range and a full bank of solar and wind to help charge our vehicles, we would use only a fraction of the gas we use today. We could all still have our highway vehicles for longer trips and big trucks for pulling a load or gathering firewood but there is a real place for electric and hybrid vehicles.

I suppose I sound like some eco-terrorist but before you get all down on me, I do have a Prius that really does get 55 miles per gallon and is a joy to drive but I also have a Toyota 4 Runner for expeditions in the snow, a 3/4 ton Chevy with a snowplow and a deisel sucking John Deere tractor. All have very good uses when used properly. If I were going to drive cross country, I'd take the Prius but if I needed to pull the tractor to a jobsite I'd use the Chevy. I bet if we as a country would invest a bit more time into developing alternatives, we'd find that an electric truck will actually pull that tractor better and more efficiently. That's exactly why freight trains and large cruise ships are powered by diesel electric hybrids.

Maybe if the "big 3" go under, someone will buy up their plants and start making vehicles for the future. Unfortunately it will most likely not be an American company that does it. Remember that the internal combustion engine has changed very little since it's invention so long ago. Maybe it's time for an upgrade? A new way of thinking? Unfortunately, with attitudes like some of those expressed here, we may be doomed to buying crap vehicles that keep us hooked on oil like crack addicts.

[Eric W S]

It's already happening. Nissan, Toyota and Honda are all locked into producing the next greatest hybrid. Nissan announced last year that they will have an all electric sentra in 2011...

I bet in 10 years that the technology will out pace gas in sales.

Cars are only part of the problem. Electric plants produce more emmissions and you'd be surprised what your house does to the environment.

Just a matter of time.

EDIT: which is finally good for us and finally bad for oil producers. We'll get that money back soon enough...

[Tim Smith]

Cars are only part of the problem. Electric plants produce more emissions and you'd be surprised what your house does to the environment.

I've got to agree. Our electric infrastructure needs a lot of work before we can call it a green source of power.

I think home electric car conversions are great thing but they're certainly not going to save the world. Mind though, it wouldn't be a bad thing to try and just think of the extra beer money you'd have at the end of the week.

Lets also not forget that the story of the electric car is older than the story of the gasser. Go ahead and google it. It's pretty interesting stuff really.

[adkrover]

I'm not saying that electric cars will save the planet but it will go a long way toward keeping American dollars in America if we can develop the patents for them and produce them here. Instead of Detroit wasting so much time trying to build the hottest retro cars like the Hemi, Camaro and Mustang (all of which I personally like but think the rest of their products look like crap) they should be more focused on cars that are in fact practical and more efficient. BTW, some of the fastest supercar prototypes are electric.

I agree that electric doesn't equal green when it's produced in a coal or nuclear plant. We need to improve on hydro, wind, solar and who knows what else is out there that we haven't even figured out yet. I personally have solar panels and windmills on my house and they work great. I don't have enough to be completely free from other power sources but that's only because I haven't committed enough funds to it yet but it is practical and it does work. Europe is far ahead of the US on the road to energy independence. We just need to get together as a country and a culture to accept that we need to make a change. When I first installed my system, the electrician on the job kept scoffing at how much "real" electricity I could buy with the cost of the panels and batteries. I tried to convince him that wasn't the point but I don't think he got my drift.

There are also a lot of people I think have the issues confused. I'm in the Adirondacks and there's an owner of an abandoned strip mine who wants to turn it into a windfarm. The land is completely baren, stands on a great hill for wind and already has the large power transmission lines from the old mining days. The local environmentalists are opposed to it because it won't be asthetically pleasing in the natural scenery.

I'm sure someone will remind us soon that this is a forum about old trucks and not the environment but as gearheads, we all have to take some responsibilty for our fun and games.

[LaneRover]

To say that if I can't drive from one major city to another non-stop means we shouldn't bother with electric vehicles is pretty stupid in my opinion.

We could all still have our highway vehicles for longer trips and big trucks for pulling a load or gathering firewood but there is a real place for electric and hybrid vehicles.

I didn't say we shouldn't bother with them because you can't drive from one city to another. I said that I wouldn't bother with them until you can drive from one city to another. (or maybe that is what I meant) There are some severe limitations to electric vehicles and hybrids. A LOT more stuff has to be worked out before pure electric vehicles are a viable option. From battery technology to recycling to power transmission what about resale when the battery pack is past its prime? Right now you have to REALLY be into electric vehicles to have an all electric vehicle. Or can afford to keep an electric car for just around town.

You are quite lucky that you can have those vehicles and have space for them. Many people can't for cost or land.

Are electric or hybrid vehicles the answer or like an ineffective band-aid that makes us feel better but really doesn't do much? Only time will tell.

Personally I think that it would be neat to build an electric Rover someday. Until then I will have to be glad that my Rovers are recycled and unlike a current day Hybrid hasn't added much in the way of a big scary carbon footprint in recent memory :-P

[adkrover]

Like I said, some people just don't get it.

[Eric W S]

Nissan expects an all electric car in 2010 in the US. Working with State of Oregon to ensure infrastructure needs are met.

Google it.

Good news from an economic standpoint. Honda testing Hydrogen in Cali, Nissan starting all electric in Oregon. The free market at work. Wonder what the oil producing countries are thinking? They have to know that another spike like this summer and it's the death knell for gasoline as we know it.

This genie ain't going back in the bottle with the success of the Prius and for once, I can honestly say that I am hopeful that the free market will deliver sooner than later.

Might have to see who is making batteries and is listed on the exchange

[greenmeanie]

Oh please,
"Wonder what the oil producing countries are thinking? They have to know that another spike like this summer and it's the death knell for gasoline as we know it."

I know what they are thinking.
1. The cars that run on electricity are going to need a bucket load of plastics for all those electric gizmos.
2. Recycling all those electric gizmos takes a bucket load of energy which is predominantly oil generated.
3. Even if the US market evaporates, which is highly unlikely, you'll find that China and India are buying up every last drop they can get their hands on. As their economies and wealth grow there are more cars on their roads and more demand for oil.
4. The day that the path of the product from raw materials to fully integrated battery pack does not involve at least one circumnavigation of the globe on an oil buring ship they may be called green.
5. The day I see a 60 ton 18 wheeler cruising on by on electric I'll know that serious progress has been made.

I'll tell you what the oil producing countries are thinking- they are laughing their heads off as they know the market for their oil is not going away.

The oil based economy is far bigger than whether or not you can collect your groceries in your Prius or your SUV and the equation to address the issues with the price and availability of alternatives is extremely complex. Basic infrastructure and lifestyle changes will have far more effect than the car you drive.

[Eric W S]

Oh please,
"Wonder what the oil producing countries are thinking? They have to know that another spike like this summer and it's the death knell for gasoline as we know it."

I know what they are thinking.
1. The cars that run on electricity are going to need a bucket load of plastics for all those electric gizmos.
2. Recycling all those electric gizmos takes a bucket load of energy which is predominantly oil generated.
3. Even if the US market evaporates, which is highly unlikely, you'll find that China and India are buying up every last drop they can get their hands on. As their economies and wealth grow there are more cars on their roads and more demand for oil.
4. The day that the path of the product from raw materials to fully integrated battery pack does not involve at least one circumnavigation of the globe on an oil buring ship they may be called green.
5. The day I see a 60 ton 18 wheeler cruising on by on electric I'll know that serious progress has been made.

I'll tell you what the oil producing countries are thinking- they are laughing their heads off as they know the market for their oil is not going away.

The oil based economy is far bigger than whether or not you can collect your groceries in your Prius or your SUV and the equation to address the issues with the price and availability of alternatives is extremely complex. Basic infrastructure and lifestyle changes will have far more effect than the car you drive.

Not really. You can't disregard two very strong market mechanisms. One - Oil is trading over 45 a barrel. At that price Tar sand (oil trapped in sand), deep heavy crude, and coal liquification turn the profitbality corner and become profitable. and Two - The US, Coal, and Canada, Tar Sand have than 500 years of oil supple between the two of them.

SO what has happened? Canada just brought a second tar shale plant into production and there are investment groups looking into coal liquification in the states. The US Military is testing fuel made from coal as we speak.

Ergo the Cartel and the ability to control price is eroding fast.

India and China will follow the laws of economics. Plan and simple. China was severly hurt when the price was 145 a gallon. Their oil industry is propped up by their government. India is producing a car that gets 50 miles a gallon. Both are getting killed as much as we are in regards to GDP and most likely will hurt for much longer as they are major exporters. They are seeing the exact same demand erosion as we are.

Things are starting to speed up as far as alternatives. The term Green didn't even exist 10 years ago. Now it's almost 5% of Housing raw materials and they are creating a strong brand loyalty for them. The Prius came on board. Nuclear energy is being reinvestigated as a power source. Wind stations being built. Bio reactors being made from landfills. Oregon and Cali are already building infrastructure for alternative fuels...

Point is that if you look at what has happened in just 10 years, the sum of parts are starting to build. There will be considerable advances made in Alternative energy. We are approaching a critical mass where oil will be on the way out.

And the Saudis aren't laughing. They have hired some the the brightest in all industries to analyze and re-analyze their position and options. If they weren't scared, they wouldn't have even commented when Oil hit 145 over the summer. They immediately blamed the market and sought to drop the price. If they weren't worried, they would have cut production during the peak to artificially prop prices up for as long as possible...

But they didn't....