Flywheel timing marker question

[JayGoss]

I have a 1960 Series II, so I have to time the car via the marks on the flywheel (there's no tab on the front of the motor as with later series). It's difficult to see back there but I can make out 3 equally spaced marks- unfortunately I don't see any labels (TDC, etc). When facing the inspection window looking towards the bulkhead am I correct in assuming that, from left to right, the three marks are: TCD, 3deg BTDC & 6deg BTDC? I hope so- I'm at 7000ft so I estimated beyond that what would be 12deg BTDC as I hear it's what folks here in CO have been doing. If my interpretation of the three marks is wrong, though, I'm probably nowhere near where I need to be!

[ML-ENGR]

I just checked mine so I believe your assumption is correct, TDC | |3|6
Let me know how it goes I’m at 8000.
I found my timing pointer between the gas tank and the frame with 5lbs of dirt (as expected), is the pointer on the upper or lower part of the housing? Mine is bent to hell so it’s not intuitive. Also was there originally a cover?
Translation something else I need to find...

[Eric W S]

I have a 1960 Series II, so I have to time the car via the marks on the flywheel (there's no tab on the front of the motor as with later series). It's difficult to see back there but I can make out 3 equally spaced marks- unfortunately I don't see any labels (TDC, etc). When facing the inspection window looking towards the bulkhead am I correct in assuming that, from left to right, the three marks are: TCD, 3deg BTDC & 6deg BTDC? I hope so- I'm at 7000ft so I estimated beyond that what would be 12deg BTDC as I hear it's what folks here in CO have been doing. If my interpretation of the three marks is wrong, though, I'm probably nowhere near where I need to be!

Time the engine with a vacuum gauge. You'll get better results that are tuned to the rover's specific operating environment.

EwS

[KingSlug]

Try using a small mirror to read the flywheel marks, every flywheel I have seen has marks and lableling you are probbably just seeing the back edge of the marks. By looking at the marks you should be able to guessimate 12 deg BTDC.

I usually set the timing with the flywheel then adjust the timing by ear after a run up a long hill.

Jared

[JayGoss]

I just checked mine so I believe your assumption is correct, TDC | |3|6
Let me know how it goes I’m at 8000.
I found my timing pointer between the gas tank and the frame with 5lbs of dirt (as expected), is the pointer on the upper or lower part of the housing? Mine is bent to hell so it’s not intuitive. Also was there originally a cover?
Translation something else I need to find...

On Series II there should be a plate that covers the square opening of the bellhousing to view the flywheel markings. there should be studs coming out of the bell housing for the bolts that fix the cover plate. On one end of trhe cover plate there's a hook- in lieu of a hole which allows you to loosen the bolt and swing the cover plate open to view the timing marks. As you're facing the bulkhead the timing pointer is, unfortunately, in the upper right corner of the window. It's a real bear to see- especially if you have a kodiak heater. I had to stand on a stepladder and lay across the passenger wing while wedging my head in between the heater motor and the air cleaner assembly to see the marker. You could probably rig up some mirrors to get a better look. I kind of miss my IIa with the timing pointer on the front of the motor right now!

[JayGoss]

Try using a small mirror to read the flywheel marks, every flywheel I have seen has marks and lableling you are probbably just seeing the back edge of the marks. By looking at the marks you should be able to guessimate 12 deg BTDC.

I usually set the timing with the flywheel then adjust the timing by ear after a run up a long hill.

Jared

Thanks Jared. I noticed that, with the pointer at the guesstimated 12 deg BTDC mark the motor doesn't idle as high/smoothly as it does if I further advance the timing. When you say timing by ear do you mean you get it close to the markings, then take a test drive and advance it as far as it will go before it starts pinging under load? I went for a drive at 12 deg BTDC with new plugs, then removed them and they were clean with a little white haze on the electrodes. I'm worried to advance it any further for fear of causing damage- but I'd like to get as much power as I can with the altitude I'm dealing with.

[ML-ENGR]

Ive got one stud, a bent pointer and no plate...looks like Ive got more to add to the list.

thanks for the info Jay

[scott]

beer timing...pour yourself a pint, sit it on the left wing, and with a warm engine, adjust the timing such that you minimize the ripples in the beer.

[thixon]

beer timing...pour yourself a pint, sit it on the left wing, and with a warm engine, adjust the timing such that you minimize the ripples in the beer.

This method never works for me. I always drink the beer. Maybe I should try it with prune juice.

[Donnie]

I have a 1960 Series II, so I have to time the car via the marks on the flywheel (there's no tab on the front of the motor as with later series). It's difficult to see back there but I can make out 3 equally spaced marks- unfortunately I don't see any labels (TDC, etc). When facing the inspection window looking towards the bulkhead am I correct in assuming that, from left to right, the three marks are: TCD, 3deg BTDC & 6deg BTDC? I hope so- I'm at 7000ft so I estimated beyond that what would be 12deg BTDC as I hear it's what folks here in CO have been doing. If my interpretation of the three marks is wrong, though, I'm probably nowhere near where I need to be!

I just run the engine at the speed that I drive at mostly on the hiway, and twist the dist until I feel the best spot. Sort of dial it in, I'll admit, this takes a little practice, but the comp, fuel quality & a lot of other factors are entered into the process... Timing marks are of very little use other than to assemble an engine...JMO

[scott]

This method never works for me. I always drink the beer. Maybe I should try it with prune juice.

thix ya don't need to get drastic, just pour a couple of beers, one for timing one for you maybe a second for you...

[KingSlug]

Thanks Jared. I noticed that, with the pointer at the guesstimated 12 deg BTDC mark the motor doesn't idle as high/smoothly as it does if I further advance the timing. When you say timing by ear do you mean you get it close to the markings, then take a test drive and advance it as far as it will go before it starts pinging under load? I went for a drive at 12 deg BTDC with new plugs, then removed them and they were clean with a little white haze on the electrodes. I'm worried to advance it any further for fear of causing damage- but I'd like to get as much power as I can with the altitude I'm dealing with.

Jay

Like the other have said, basically I use the pointer as set-up which gets it close. Then I adjust by ear/feel to get it right then go for a drive to check for pinging, good power and plug condition.

Remember shutoff after climbing the hill and coast/brake to a stop. I think your white plugs are indicating a too lean condition, so check your mixture. I usually like to run a bit rich then slowly dial back as its much more forgiving than running lean with the wrong timing. Try advancing adjusting the mixture a little then give it a little advance.

When I completely re-do something like the carb or distributor, it takes a few day to screw with both to get things perfect. It truly takes a little time and you will get better at it. I have a small screw driver and wrench the I keep in my dash to gently tweak the carb and timing.

Jared

[mechman]

On Series II there should be a plate that covers the square opening of the bellhousing to view the flywheel markings. there should be studs coming out of the bell housing for the bolts that fix the cover plate. On one end of trhe cover plate there's a hook- in lieu of a hole which allows you to loosen the bolt and swing the cover plate open to view the timing marks. As you're facing the bulkhead the timing pointer is, unfortunately, in the upper right corner of the window. It's a real bear to see- especially if you have a kodiak heater. I had to stand on a stepladder and lay across the passenger wing while wedging my head in between the heater motor and the air cleaner assembly to see the marker. You could probably rig up some mirrors to get a better look. I kind of miss my IIa with the timing pointer on the front of the motor right now!

BTDT. The best thing to do, when you've set up your engine to the proper mark, is to make a new pointer and timing mark of your own. Find a convenient bolt (or clean spot - if you don't have one, make one) on the front of the motor near the crank pulley. Take a piece of stiff steel wire (straightened paper clips work great) and twist a loop in one end, bolt it down and bend the other end to aim at the inner edge of your pulley (or if you just have the clean bare spot, carefully grind a small shallow notch with a Dremel and paint it white with a paint pen). Then, using a straightedge, find the corresponding point on your crank pulley and mark it with a dab of white. Using a file, swipe a notch into the inner edge of the pulley and paint it white too. Voila! You can now easily see your timing mark. And on that dark, stormy night when you could have SWORN you tightened down that loose dizzy...

Even if you're deeply into the originality thing, trust me - no-one is going to notice it's there.

Mech

*Edit: Of course, that being said, I either use a vacuum gauge (if the motor is still tight) or time them by ear. With everything else adjusted, I start with base timing until it's warm then advance it 'til it pings, then back it off a bit and take it for a spin. If it still pings under load, I back it off a few degrees more at a time until it's quiet and smooth under load, too. I've found that with modern gas formulations and being close to sea level, the Series Landies (especially the military units I most commonly worked on) seem to like a few extra degrees of advance.

[JayGoss]

Ive got one stud, a bent pointer and no plate...looks like Ive got more to add to the list.

thanks for the info Jay

No worries- and I'm glad you're referring to engine parts!!!

[ML-ENGR]

Ive got one stud, a bent pointer and no plate...looks like Ive got more to add to the list.

thanks for the info Jay

Wow...I only now realize how bad that was.
But I was clearly talking about my racehorse, dial indicator, and fine China