Found One!

[bmohan55]

If I can offer any advice as one who had little knowledge of Series trucks but bought one anyways 7 months ago it's this:

Find out how often the truck has been ran recently.

Mine had only 20,000 on it and was rarely used for the last 15 years. Although it initially ran good my more frequent usage (believe me, you'll want to drive it at every oppertunity!) stressed alot of systems in it which one by one needed replaced. I spent a little over 2K on tires (15 year old bias-ply are not safe!), fuel lines, fuel pump, changing out all fluids, complete tune-up, alternator, battery, hi-lift, fire extinguisher, head light buckets and head lights, carb. re-build and probably many more things I've forgotten now.

I believe if a truck is ran more frequently most of this things would be already addressed, or it won't be running!

Anyways, that my newbe $0.02's.

Keep looking, I'm enjoying your hunt. The only thing more fun than looking for one is owning one...and then keeping it running!

Bob

BTW, I have very little mechanical knowledge but with the help of a few friends and this board my truck is running great, and I'm confident I'll be able to keep it that way.

[NickDawson]

The best thing to do like everyone has mentioned is take your time. Grab a pair of old work cloths and a mat/cardboard/carpet etc and a hammer and screwdriver and spent the time on your back getting dirty and oily going over every inch of the frame and bulkhead. (oh and don't forget something to cover your eyes and hair, I always seem to get a chunck of oily dirt in my eye and or hair when I am under my truck)

Thanks!
I'm getting more comfortable doing that but I've noticed that most owners really don't feel great about you breaking out the hammer. I've had some flat out say "no".
Part of me wants to say - fine, no inspection, no offer but part of me also understands. Who wants someone hitting around under their automobile? Its a bit of a social challenge more than anything...

edited to add: That may be because I'm looking at trucks where the owners really do think they have a gem - and thus the high price tags on the "rot boxes" that I've shared thus far... As I start to find some tucks that are more "project worthy" (not exactly my preference, but in line with my budget) I suspect it will get much easier to poke and prod under the frame

The real challenge is that my geography has expanded so much that most of the options before me now will require getting someone else to do that dirty work. At that point its not a matter of coercion or desire, its a matter of logistics.

I'm working on coming up with a few options then starting a thread to see who on this board is near by those trucks (I'll repay the favor in the form of cold six packs next time someone is through Virginia )

[Jeff Aronson]

Nick,

There's a strong Land Rover community that will help you look at any vehicle, anywhere. I bought my second Rover, the QM I, 250 miles away from my island town. I had it looked at, knew the owner's reputation in the Land Rover community, talked to the shop that did work on the vehicle, and found out that the parts replaced were Genuine LR parts or Proline parts from Rovers North. All of this gave me confidence to jump into the Rover and drive it home - with tools and fluids on hand in case I had a problem, which I didn't.

Many years ago we ran a Rovers North News article by an absolute Rover novice [then] who bought a Series Rover from a private party in Vermont and drove it home to the upper midwest, about a 1,000 mile trip. He carried a cellphone and some tools, and took down phone numbers of Rovers North staff in case he needed help. He needed to add some oil to the engine and one windshield wiper motor failed [on his II-A, so he could still operate it by hand]. The trip took him over 20 hours and he enjoyed the cars for a few years afterwards before moving to a Range Rover Classic.

An owner who does not understand why you would bring a hammer to explore the frame is either an owner who knows the hammer would bust through rot in the frame, or doesn't really know much about Series Rovers [or they would accept that reasonable request]. If they're not that knowledgeable, then they might not have done the right maintenance on their Rover over the years.

You're poking around on spots, like the crossmembers and the rails, on the frame, not whacking it with a sledge hammer. You'll do no damage to the car - unless the frame is rotten in spots. A Land Rover frame that's solid will absorb hits with a hammer [you can't really get that good a swing from underneath the car] that are far less than the thumps it will take when the frame lands on a rock offroad. They're designed for enormous strength, and any knowledgeable owner should know that.

So your instincts are right on this one. Don't accept "social niceties" on this issue - you're not assaulting the body of the car and putting dents into it .

Best wishes,

Jeff

[Apis Mellifera]

Get yourself a magnet and one of these:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v307/dandomatic2/DSC01496.jpg

Pick, hammer, and scraper. Small, easy to carry, and much less frightening to a seller than the full-size counterparts.

[NickDawson]

Many years ago we ran a Rovers North News article by an absolute Rover novice [then] who bought a Series Rover from a private party in Vermont and drove it home to the upper midwest, about a 1,000 mile trip. He carried a cellphone and some tools, and took down phone numbers of Rovers North staff in case he needed help. He needed to add some oil to the engine and one windshield wiper motor failed [on his II-A, so he could still operate it by hand]. The trip took him over 20 hours and he enjoyed the cars for a few years afterwards before moving to a Range Rover Classic.

An owner who does not understand why you would bring a hammer to explore the frame is either an owner who knows the hammer would bust through rot in the frame, or doesn't really know much about Series Rovers [or they would accept that reasonable request]. If they're not that knowledgeable, then they might not have done the right maintenance on their Rover over the years.

Thanks Jeff! I love that story - enjoyed relaying it to my old man last nigh (he's my partner in crime on this potential restoration project of ours...)

As for owners, most that I've run into fall into the later catagory - I think there is an entire 2nd community of "gentile rover owners" out there that trade around $15,000K trucks that this group wouldn't pay $5K for.... and those guys all say things like "of course there's rust, they all rust" and then look at you strange when you want to look underneath. I really don't think they are shady, just not that knowledgeable.

In regards to my search: I'm still on the prowl... I've taken to following Series trucks around town and accosting the drivers.. I've also left a few notes "love to learn more about your Rover experience, call me @..."

I've enlisted Sean Jones in North Carolina to help and he's quite obliging. I'm going to place a similar call to our hosts. ... we had a chance to dig deeper into the story of a friend who recently sold a Series III in my hometown (unbeknown to us) - he apparently called RN and pestered them enough that they sourced 3 (!!!) Series IIIs from a Canadian logging company and then used them to construct one solid running vheical (with a new galvy frame)... Sold it in perfect running condition and rust free for $4.5K 3 months ago

I'm half tempted to go look at this monstrosity: which may be the wost re-paint job I've ever seen. I've also decided I'm really more partial to the 88" ...

Looking forward to keeping everyone posted!
-N

[galen216]

I'm half tempted to go look at this monstrosity: which may be the wost re-paint job I've ever seen. I've also decided I'm really more partial to the 88" ...

-N

I know this truck, it is mechanically sound and came from Africa. But you are right, a year ago it looked very different....

[scott]

me & my 64 iia hooked up about 3 years ago. my 1st rover purchase. it had new paint. the galv parts were painted over. i didn't know about the frame rust thing. bought it via the internet. flew to arkansas to pick it up. drove it back to new mex with my tool box, buddy jeff and yes no jack. i got lucky. paid under $6k and the frame is original and in great shape. my point is there are good trucks out there for a decent price but i won't rely on luck for my next buy thanks to all the good advice you'll rcv here.

[Jeff Aronson]

Avoid the 109 from EBay. When you read the owner's description, you find that it "pops out" of 3rd gear under load. That's heading towards a transmission rebuild with new synchros, and maybe more.

The other issue is that it's a homemade double cab. Rover did not offer them in the Series days and this one has a cut back top and a custom canvas back. I don't think it's a good buy for you, given what you've written here.

Jeff

[NickDawson]

Avoid the 109 from EBay.

Roger That

[NickDawson]

First, the CD player has to go
But I'm going to be nearby this truck this weekend - thinking of scoping a closer look, but suspect its in the "gentleman Rover owner" category.

I also understand there are some concerns about the ex-MOD stuff...and is that a body patch on the front driver's door?

[jac04]

It's hard to tell from the poor pictures, but it looks like both doors have the "patch" on them, which could possibly be a home-made vent - some people do this to try to get some additional ventilation.
I wonder if this is really an ex-MOD vehicle. It doesn't have the proper bumper over-riders in front or the military rear crossmember.

[greenmeanie]

Nick,
That truck doesn’t look bad at all. Of course, he is missing the essential pictures of chassis and detail foot well shots. From those internal pictures I would say pay attention to the foot wells as they are missing the little stiffening dimples which suggests a previous repair. If it is solid then don’t worry about it.

While that truck may have served in the MOD there is really nothing on it that makes it any different than a civvy spec truck. The goodies in the way of heavy duty chassis and suspension are really only seen on the 109 GS so the MOD reference is just salesmanship. Inspect the chassis as you would any other truck. You’d probably want to swap any military tyre out on a DD.

The ‘patch’in the door is actually a vent that some people add to provide cool air to their feet. It’s not the prettiest thing but is quite useful. I would view it as neither a positive nor negative unless it offends your sense of aesthetics.

I would pay close attention to the rear cross member and those recovery points. If they are welded in place all is good. If they are the bolt on eyes be very careful as on MOD trucks they are for helicopter transport and are not robust enough for recovery.

[Jeff Aronson]

No, Nick, not a patch. Some owners installed vents in the doors to funnel air into the cabin. It's not a factory option but I've seen them in British magazines.

The car looks straight and together, without the "special" custom features that are sometimes poorly done. The snorkel for deep water offroading in a nice addition. You should find out where and who did the engine rebuild, or it is was a long block installed from a vendor.

Again, bring your hammer and screwdriver - you know the drill by now.

MOD Rovers are not "rare;" they're rather common unless they're the 24v "fitted for radio" units. In some cases, they're well cared for because they get a lot of maintenance. In other cases, they're beaten up by "squaddies" who treat them like rental cars.

This one is worth the drive. Don't worry about the CD player - the real question is whether it can really work given the vibrations that come with driving a Series Rover.

Good luck - and see if you can get another enthusiast to join you looking at it.

Jeff

[NickDawson]

Thanks gang!
I've inquired about the seller's reserve to make sure I'm barking up the right tree... fingers crossed - the close proximity makes it even better.

Regarding the snorkel and engine, does it look like a Rover motor or is it some kind drop-in? Any concerns about being able to work on and source parts for the "long block"?


As always, grateful for the help!

p.s. I have assembled a "rover kit" that goes with me in a bag... screwdriver, small hammer, adjustable wrench and rag... I'm well armed

[Jeff Aronson]

Add a flashlight and waterless hand cleaner, like GoJo or Fast Orange, to your kit and a set of safety glasses for yourself. You're going to get dirty and you don't want crap falling in your eyes. While you're under the car, have the owner chock the wheels and put the car in neutral, brake off. Then shake the front and rear driveshafts to check for wear; not a big replacement/repair issue but a bargaining chip.

If you bring a 1/2 wrench you can check the transmission and transfer case for fluid. The transmission filler bolt is on the left side of the car, underneath the front door. The transfer case is on the side facing the rear, next to the transmission. It's a sign of good maintenance that they're topped up. If the owner knows where they're located, it's a sign that he or she knows something about the car, too.

The same wrench can open the steering box under the hood. I'm pretty sure you'll need a 9/16th" for the front and rear axles; if it has the older II-A axle in the rear, you'll need a 3/4" wrench.

Yes, it looks like a Rover 2.25L motor. The photos are small but it does look like the rebuilt engine has a Weber carb, which I like.

"Long block" is an automotive repair term used for engine rebuilds. Most of the time when you need an engine rebuild, the innards - cylinders, pistons, crankshaft, camshaft, timing chain/tensioners, etc. - are cleaned up, bored out and/or machined, or replaced entirely. When you have a "long block" rebuilt, the top of the engine [cylinder heads, manifolds, carb, water pump, maybe alternator] are new as well. If it had a "short block" rebuild, than any of the items bolted onto the engine itself are likely from the old engine. They'd be inspected for excess wear but not necessarily replaced.

Good luck with your search,

Jeff