EZwiring harness

[superstator]

Ah I'll do it for giggles. Crimp vs solder?

<Taking the bait>

Crimp, then heat shrink.

[greenmeanie]

Fully aware of the above and am not running off the original fuse box. I have a seperate hidden box to handle the extra juice, however to my point, no cutting of my original harness was necessary and there are no stray wires running around my engine bay. When you open the hood it essentially looks stock, except for a couple extra relays.

By your own admission, however, you have added an aftermarket harness of sorts, be it preconnected or built from scratch. At the very least I presume you are running a big alternator for that winch and I can only imagine you have upgraded that part of the harness for the extra current load. The original harness may not have been hacked as I put it but the system still has been modified with all the potential associated problems that go with it.

By your rule I would be just as likely to run from your truck as I would any other with a modified electric system even if it took longer to find on yours. This is not to knock your work, which I have not seen, but merely to make a point that any modifications really make the 'keep it Rover' thing a moot point.

I think that is a great thing if you are after a restoration to use the OEM part for looks. I can, however, build the entire harness for less money with the same lack of stray wires and make it easier to diagnose than you can buy just the OEM harness without the add ons. IIRC the SIII may have gone all high tech with 4 fuses but the same principle applies. Even its original form, the OEM harness is underfused and can be improved upon.

Horses for courses. You look at your skills, your needs and your finances and make your choice.

[thixon]

Bertha,

I'll make it plain and simple. I'd rather buy a truck with a factory made kit harness (EZ or Painless) that comes with a wiring diagram, than your truck with what is essentially a HACKED oem harness. A new owner would spend a lot less time figuring out a truck wired like mine, than one wired like yours. I know from your posts that you know your stuff, buy I'm no slouch either (neither is Greenmeanie, I've seen his work up close). I'll admit your right to say that an OEM harness will work well. I stated above that when gone through, the originals can be very reliable, but if you think your unconditionally better off with an OEM harness your kidding yourself.

Run from my truck all you want. I'll take the pepsi challenge against you any day.

[Crash]

I apologize of I ended up hijacking the thread. I realized when I posed my query about original vs EZ wire style it might create good discussion or go downhill. Its actually been a good discusion.

I am working on an IIA from around 65 and I am right at the point where I need to make a couple of key decisions – wiring being one of them.

Both my original and the donor have had their wiring hacked up pretty badly and it looks like whatever repairs or additions took a toll. Obviously that does not add value to a rover even if it is original. I looked at a rover that had been rewired with a modern harness and it looked as neat as the original but to my eye the only giveaway was the blade style fuse box on the firewall. The opinions were really split on if it was right and the discussion wavered back on forth from pretty ridiculous to practical. In the end the purists were not happy but probably envious of the modern systems ability to keep the smoke within!

I have most of the parts to make my rover close to original but I am definitely going to an alternator so moving to an EZ wire seemed to be in order. But I kept wondering about deviating from original – pretty weird considering the working nature of the rover I have in mind and the butchered original wiring in place!

I had a look at a rover online and they appear to have a bit of a hybrid set-up http://www.roverhaul.com/electrical.htm

Still undecided but leaning towards the practical!

Crash

[scott]

my 2 cents.

i'm nearing the end of a rebuild, not a restore. stripped down to the frame from seats forward. i went with ome harness and will keep all my add-ons on a seperate isolated battery and fuse bank.

i thought with green bible and haynes this would be the easiest way to get the gauges, lights, ignition and horn to work. i was freak'n wrong. there are so many variation and diagrams out there. i'll get it to work and my add-on will be simple and bullet proof. but i think i should have placed less value on the original colors with their original traces

i never plan on getting rid of this truck so i build for me an not the next fool

[mechman]

How you rewire your truck depends on what you intend to use it for. Are you building an occasional driver and sometime show truck? Are you aiming for an ultimate safari rig? Or maybe a bare minimum rock crawler?

I tend to stick to OE myself, unless it's not practical. When I change something, I like to do so in a way that it can be changed back to stock if the owner wishes, without having to fill large holes or make major mods. Personally, I don't consider replacing a harness to be all that difficult or stressful, but I am a pro, so YMMV.

Given that you have a hacked original harness and it needs to be replaced, here are my suggestions:

1. If you want a weekend to daily driver, mostly on the road, something to take to shows or even up to greenlaning, go with an OE harness. You can run a simple parallel harness or two, complete with fuses and relays for a couple accessories like a light or winch - you can make that yourself. This will keep your field repairs simple, and any shop you take it to will understand what you have if they look at the factory wiring diagram. It's also probably the easiest for you to install, as all the connectors are the same, and you don't have to worry if you're doing it wrong.

2. If you want something a bit... more, say a Series set up with all the gear to explore the deserts and jungles of the world, go with a modern EZ-style harness. You'll want all of the circuits to have dedicated grounds, fuses and, well, let's be honest, wires. The connectors and fuses should be weatherproof as well. There are reasons why modern cars have more than one fuse. If you want to bring your truck into the modern age, then the wiring must be modern as well.

3. If you want a rock crawler or bog hopper, then you really only need to get spark from the battery to the starter and alternator, to the ignition switch and on to the coil. An oil light would be nice too. And maybe a spotlight, so you don't run over any gators or go over a cliff. Otherwise, the rest of it is just gingerbread.

Any time I deviate from the factory setup, I document what I've done, unless it's a simple accessory harness that is very easy to follow. If you decide to build an ultimate safari harness that can handle a rack of midnight suns, three kinds of radios, electric locking diffs, and all the fun things that blink, bleep, shudder and squawk, then do yourself (and anyone who has to work on it later) a HUGE favor - make up a wiring diagram and LAMINATE IT. Then keep it with your truck at all times. Maybe hog ring a copy under your driver's seat so it won't get lost.

Mech

[Eric W S]

I apologize of I ended up hijacking the thread. I realized when I posed my query about original vs EZ wire style it might create good discussion or go downhill. Its actually been a good discusion.

I am working on an IIA from around 65 and I am right at the point where I need to make a couple of key decisions – wiring being one of them.

Both my original and the donor have had their wiring hacked up pretty badly and it looks like whatever repairs or additions took a toll. Obviously that does not add value to a rover even if it is original. I looked at a rover that had been rewired with a modern harness and it looked as neat as the original but to my eye the only giveaway was the blade style fuse box on the firewall. The opinions were really split on if it was right and the discussion wavered back on forth from pretty ridiculous to practical. In the end the purists were not happy but probably envious of the modern systems ability to keep the smoke within!

I have most of the parts to make my rover close to original but I am definitely going to an alternator so moving to an EZ wire seemed to be in order. But I kept wondering about deviating from original – pretty weird considering the working nature of the rover I have in mind and the butchered original wiring in place!

I had a look at a rover online and they appear to have a bit of a hybrid set-up http://www.roverhaul.com/electrical.htm

Still undecided but leaning towards the practical!

Crash

It's easy to tell if the wiring harness is correct or not.

Smoke is the result of a poor installation, not a characterisitc of the loom. The replacement harnesses are just as nice as any modern loom such as painless/ez wiring. I am envious of a cloth loom myself. At least till mine arives...

The link shows a PVC harness, not a hybrid. PVC is correct for a 1971.

At the end of the day you just want a wiring system that works.

[Crash]

The link was more of an example of a modern fuse block and electrical connections. I have no idea what is the correct wrap as I was only going by the article which first mentions a cloth wrap and then using PVC.

It also made mention of utilizing the original lucas fuse box.

That is my idea of a hybrid setup!!!

[Bertha]

Bertha,

I'll make it plain and simple. I'd rather buy a truck with a factory made kit harness (EZ or Painless) that comes with a wiring diagram, than your truck with what is essentially a HACKED oem harness. A new owner would spend a lot less time figuring out a truck wired like mine, than one wired like yours. I know from your posts that you know your stuff, buy I'm no slouch either (neither is Greenmeanie, I've seen his work up close). I'll admit your right to say that an OEM harness will work well. I stated above that when gone through, the originals can be very reliable, but if you think your unconditionally better off with an OEM harness your kidding yourself.

Run from my truck all you want. I'll take the pepsi challenge against you any day.

Easy there, If you are happy with the way your harness came out, great. Not trying to offend you, just that I wouldnt do it , but to each his own. BTW, my harness is not hacked or spliced and if you saw it in person, you too would agree, so easy on the assumptions. Again my statements were made for the benefit of the regular owner, not for the customizers like yourself. I personally like to keep things as original as possible, as stated before, but that is just me. It is your truck and you do what works for you.

BTW I took the Pepsi challenge and hands down I picked......COKE.

[Bertha]

By your own admission, however, you have added an aftermarket harness of sorts, be it preconnected or built from scratch. At the very least I presume you are running a big alternator for that winch and I can only imagine you have upgraded that part of the harness for the extra current load. The original harness may not have been hacked as I put it but the system still has been modified with all the potential associated problems that go with it. .

The new OEM style harness that was put in was set up for an alternator. The original sytem has been added to, not modified, in a very non-invasive way. I am not sure what associated problems would arise from that, but nothing strange has happened in the last 16 years and 70k miles.

By your rule I would be just as likely to run from your truck as I would any other with a modified electric system even if it took longer to find on yours. This is not to knock your work, which I have not seen, but merely to make a point that any modifications really make the 'keep it Rover' thing a moot point. .

Not exactly, adding a seperate solenoid and custom rewiring an entire car are 2 different things. If you saw how it was done, I don't think you would run away from my truck.

Horses for courses. You look at your skills, your needs and your finances and make your choice.

I agree, however staying as close to original, if possible, is what I personally try to do, why try and reinvent the wheel.

[greenmeanie]

The new OEM style harness that was put in was set up for an alternator. The original sytem has been added to, not modified, in a very non-invasive way. I am not sure what associated problems would arise from that, but nothing strange has happened in the last 16 years and 70k miles..

Bertha, being set up for an alternator is one thing, but an electric winch plus extra lighting and whatever other goodies usually needs a high output alternator. The OEM harness is designed for a Lucas 16ACR which is only about 34A which is fine for normal operation of a stock truck. Try pushing the output from a 100A alternator through that same wire during winching and it is going to get mighty hot. The OEM harness is not built for a high output alternator. It can be modified, or 'hacked', but once your into that game a full aftermarket system starts making more sense. Again this is not to knock your work but points out that there are lots of factors to consider when adding accessories and a lot of people over look the wire rating.

Not exactly, adding a seperate solenoid and custom rewiring an entire car are 2 different things. If you saw how it was done, I don't think you would run away from my truck..

Again this does not knock your work but, as mechman points out, if it is not documented it still presents problems to a new owner or mechanic no matter how nicely it is installed. I was merely using your measure that you would run away from any aftermarket harness. I see the same issue with any harness that has no accompanying documentation. Like Scott I build my trucks for me and not the next owner but I still like a diagram to work from.

I agree, however staying as close to original, if possible, is what I personally try to do, why try and reinvent the wheel.

Reinventing the wheel concept is pointless but it does need to be checked that is it suitable for the application.

[Bertha]

Bertha, being set up for an alternator is one thing, but an electric winch plus extra lighting and whatever other goodies usually needs a high output alternator. The OEM harness is designed for a Lucas 16ACR which is only about 34A which is fine for normal operation of a stock truck. Try pushing the output from a 100A alternator through that same wire during winching and it is going to get mighty hot. The OEM harness is not built for a high output alternator. It can be modified, or 'hacked', but once your into that game a full aftermarket system starts making more sense. Again this is not to knock your work but points out that there are lots of factors to consider when adding accessories and a lot of people over look the wire rating.

You are correct, 34a is not going to cut it with the winch and additional wiring is necessary, however no hacking of wires were necessary, just the addition of a few extra ones, properly routed, leaving the oem harness intact

if it is not documented it still presents problems to a new owner or mechanic no matter how nicely it is installed. I was merely using your measure that you would run away from any aftermarket harness. I see the same issue with any harness that has no accompanying documentation. Like Scott I build my trucks for me and not the next owner but I still like a diagram to work from.

What documentation is necessary? It is very staright forward once you see what has been done. Comparing an entirely new aftermarket harness to some minor additions to my electrical systems(not harness) is not in the same realm. My measure was based on a new aftermarket harness, as I had originally stated. At this juncture I guess we can agree to disagree. I too build my trucks for me, however I will state again that I do my best to keep it as authentic "looking" as I possibly can, so I can utilize the original wiring diagram to work from.

[thixon]

Easy there, If you are happy with the way your harness came out, great. Not trying to offend you, just that I wouldnt do it , but to each his own. BTW, my harness is not hacked or spliced and if you saw it in person, you too would agree, so easy on the assumptions. Again my statements were made for the benefit of the regular owner, not for the customizers like yourself. I personally like to keep things as original as possible, as stated before, but that is just me. It is your truck and you do what works for you.

BTW I took the Pepsi challenge and hands down I picked......COKE.

Bertha,

My posts are always meant to be "tongue in cheeck," so don't get your pantys into a wad. I assure I did'nt, mostly because I don't wear pantys. Hopefully you don't either. Its fun to banter back and forth, and thats all I'm ever doing. Next time I'm up your way, I'll buy a beer, and you can either punch my lights out, or pat me on the back. Your choice. Hopefully you'll pick option 2.

Also, when I used the word "Hacked," I did'nt mean "hacked to peices." Instead I was using the term to describe something that had been altered from its original state to make it work differently. Maybe better, maybe worse.

Greenmeanie had already done a great job at making the point(as per usual), so I did'nt waste typing space by restating what he said.

I still say you're misleading a newb by stating that you'd run from a truck that had a new, non OEM harness. For someone like you or I, its just preference. If one of us decided to look over a truck (stock or aftermarket harness), we'd have it figured out quick, and could decide if the level of workmanship was up to snuff. Someone new to the car hobby would have a devil of a time figuring out what you'd done to yours, because so much of it woud'nt match up to the original diagram. The two most popular aftermarket harnesses come with a diagram for Mr. newb, and adding to the harness when one wants to add additional items (winch, lights, etc.) isn't necessary. If you plan right the circuits are already there waiting to be used. In addition, both EZ and Painless label their wires every several inches, making it that much easier for said newb to trace circuits.

At any rate, we can agree to disagree. I have this exact same debate with a buddy of mine all the time. We've been running it for almost 2 decades now. I never win with him either.

[Bertha]

Bertha,

My posts are always meant to be "tongue in cheeck," so don't get your pantys into a wad. I assure I did'nt, mostly because I don't wear pantys. Hopefully you don't either. Its fun to banter back and forth, and thats all I'm ever doing. Next time I'm up your way, I'll buy a beer, and you can either punch my lights out, or pat me on the back. Your choice. Hopefully you'll pick option 2.

Don't worry, I certainly don't take internet banter too seriously. Next time you are up my way, I will take the beer, I would never punch another member of the LR brotherhood

[derek]

So has anyone mounted the fuse box in a Series III ?