swivel ball tension

[brucejohn]

I read quite a bit here and appreciate all the sage advice I have picked up to help with refurbishing my 1982 SIII 109.

This week I am working on the front axle. The railco bushings showed an egg shape in the leather? and the upper pins had an obvious shoulder just below the machined one worn in to them. I replaced the railco bushings, upper pins. One of the lower bearings was bad and I replaced it as well. Upon putting the swivel balls back together the fit of the upper pins in the railco bushings was very tight requiring help from my mallet.

The turning tension with 0.015" of shims was about 25#, not 12-16# on both swivel balls. I pulled out the upper pins, and measured the distance from the top of the wafer to the top of the swivel ball using the rod end of my caliper, it measured almost 0.1" longer than the upper pin length.

Only having so many shims...

The turning tension with 0.065" of shims in is still about 25#, not 12-16# on both swivel balls. So adding shims doesn't appear to be making a difference. I am wondering if I ruined the bushings by tapping them in with my mallet rather than pressing them in? Should I run them a bit and recheck?

Another question, is there another purpose to the tension in the upper pins then damping the steering?

Thanks for any help. I appreciate all comments.

[brucejohn]

...it measured almost 0.1" longer than the upper pin length.

opps, I meant to say, ...it measured almost 0.1" shorter than the upper pin. In hindsight I am wondering if this is a useful measurement in any case.

Thanks in advance.

[TedW]

opps, I meant to say, ...it measured almost 0.1" shorter than the upper pin. In hindsight I am wondering if this is a useful measurement in any case.

Thanks in advance.

Did you add the washer inside the railco bush? IIRC the new railcos don't need one, and if you put one in your king pin will stick out too far (I hate it when that happens).

I rebuilt my swivels last year and had to leave the washers out to make everything fit. ALSO: the pins I had (aftermarket) were longer than the originals, which I ended up reusing. My leeson: use Genuine parts if possible!

Question: Did you grease the insides of the railkos before putting the kingpins in? You should, and it will allow things to turn easier. However, an oldtime LR mechanic told me to first use a dremel to grind the insides of the railcos until the pins fit snug but could still turn with minimal friction. Then grease 'em up, reassemble, adjust tension and declare victory.

If anyone disagrees with this method, please post a response and alternate method. I just did what I was told to do.

[brucejohn]

TedW...

Answer: I did add the "wafer" and gear lube, not grease. Pulling the wafer would bring the relative 'male/female' lengths of bushing and pin more in line with each other. Pins are geniune, same length as old. Old ones worn too much to reuse in my opinion.

I am reticent to hand grind the 'leather' inners (what is the inner made of?) Wouldn't a little time on the road compress the inner loosening it up. (I do note this is what you were told by one with more experience than I).

Thanks for the comments. I need all the help I can get.

...bj

[TedW]

I am reticent to hand grind the 'leather' inners (what is the inner made of?) Wouldn't a little time on the road compress the inner loosening it up. (I do note this is what you were told by one with more experience than I.

I had to grind the insides because there was no way the pins (new or old) were going in there - way, way, way too small a bore.

I read somewhere on this forum that lubing the railcos with grease is best for them, as they will last longer/stay lubed even if you unlock your hubs for long periods (assuming you have locking hubs).

[jac04]

IIRC, the factory repair manual states not to grease the Railco bushes. Someone please confirm.

[brucejohn]

Thanks Jac04 I appreciate your input.

What does the green book say about the wafer? I have the Haynes which is silent on grease or gear lube and says to use the wafer. I bought a CD version of the rover books but, it doesn't work on my mac or linux machines even with vmware running windows. I do have a line on the rover tomes and hopefully will have them in hand in the next couple of weeks.

Am I being too finicky about routering out the inner bushing? Doesn't the fit control the alignment as well as the steering axis?

(I am not picking on anybody's choices or methods, each installation is different and arm chair quarterbacking is not my intent. Just how best to proceed with what I have in front of me.)

My issue stems from having to apply too much force to turn the swivels per the Hayne's manual recommendation. My pins are in and shimming to 0.065" had no effect on changing the force required to turn.

Thanks again to everyone. I appreciate any and all comments. You never know what piece is going to solve the puzzle until you try.

[brucejohn]

I had to grind the insides because there was no way the pins (new or old) were going in there - way, way, way too small a bore.

TedW thanks for you help. I appreciate all suggestions and tidbits of info.

[jac04]

When I refurbished my swivel housings, I used all new Genuine parts from RN - this included new Railko bushes, wafers (thrust discs) & pins. The pins fit the bushings perfectly. If the pins don't fit the bushings then something is wrong.

The green bible states:
"Using an oil recommended for the swivel pin housing lubricate the Railko bush. Ensure that the thrust disc is in position in the bottom of the bush."

[brucejohn]

This evening the swivel pins are turning easier. I didn't attach the scale to measure, just an obvious difference.

Having used gear oil on the bushings perhaps I am okay. At this point I intend to continue rebuilding the axles unless additional information presents itself. I am confident the bushings will relax sufficiently before I am road ready yet remain tight enough to hold alignment and dampening.

Unfortunately, I ordered the hub seal kit from our hosts and fortunately there is plenty of time for that information to come to light as my series has the 24 spline rover front axle and salisbury rear, hence the hub seals in the kit from RN are not the right ones.

There is always a silver lining and much of it comes from all the great suggestions people here posit. Thanks again to everyone.

[Terrys]

I have adjusted the tension on a couple trucks, but the only time I rebushed, I remember they were tight as hell for a few days, but after driving, loosened up significantly, and then I just adjusted shims to achieve about 15 lbs tension. All was well after that.

[brucejohn]

Thanks for the insight Terrys, that's what I am hoping for too.