Cracked 6cyl head

[greenmeanie]

Another factor to consider when swapping engines is your state laws on such things. I believe California has a lot of rules about swapping newer engines into older vehicles while others take the view that if you didn't kill yourself getting here it must be good.

I got put off doing a diesel conversion on my 109 because all I could get out of the county assessor who would determine emissions requirements and vehicle inspection was 'depends'. Depends on what I asked. Depends on who's working that day was the answer. Too much money involved to play that game.

[amcordo]

Luckily I live in central Ohio. The gov't is pretty supportive of the community doing anything we want (as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else). So to that end I feel comfortable that I could install coal fired boilers in the rover and the BMV wouldn't give a crap as long as I paid my registration fee.


So as you said the newer engines are more complicated. In my head, though, I keep thinking about how I've owned half a dozen newer cars in my life so far and never had engine trouble on one of them. With those odds, even if the engine is hard to fix it wouldn't matter - I'd rarely need to touch it! (My goal with my truck is reliability over anything if you couldn't tell). Anyway, so my question about using a newer engine: is it actually feasible? Can you even transplant newer engines? I'm sure it's possible to find one that's the right size, and matches up and all, but what about computers? Is it possible to make those fancy ECUs work in a rover environment?

[greenmeanie]

The answer is anything is possible, it's just a matter of time, effort and, of course, money. I think there must be an LS series V8 transplant in almost every type of older vehicle in the US. I know of people modifying the GM 4.2l(?) straight 6 to work in older vehicles.

In a lot of cases the biggest effort is the need to fool the ECUs into working with the transplant vehicle, especially if it was originally hooked up to an auto box. For the most part these issues can be worked round by stripping all the OEM stuff off and going Megasquirt. It starts turning your conversion job from simple wrenching into a real science project and you have the potential of losing some of that OEM reliability that you desire.

[amcordo]

The answer is anything is possible, it's just a matter of time, effort and, of course, money. I think there must be an LS series V8 transplant in almost every type of older vehicle in the US. I know of people modifying the GM 4.2l(?) straight 6 to work in older vehicles.

In a lot of cases the biggest effort is the need to fool the ECUs into working with the transplant vehicle, especially if it was originally hooked up to an auto box. For the most part these issues can be worked round by stripping all the OEM stuff off and going Megasquirt. It starts turning your conversion job from simple wrenching into a real science project and you have the potential of losing some of that OEM reliability that you desire.

Good point.

[brucejohn]

With what little I know about all this if I was after ease of swap and reliability I'd be looking into a 200tdi and the 5 speed.

[NepentheSea]

Id love a diesel, its my first preference really.
But besides the diesel out of the Mercedes 240D, what else fits right in and allows me to use the rover transmission? The 6cyl Mercedes might be an option, Im watching the Seriestrek site with interest.

Im not very interested in the 200tdi/5speed because-
Isnt the 5 speed longer than what Ive got now? That means I get to shorten the rear prop shaft, lengthen the front, move mounts and a crossmember, at the least. Ive got two priorities- ease of swap and reliability. That kills the ease of swap.

Im not opposed to swapping transmissions along with the motor. It really makes more sense, I know. Who wouldnt want more power, and a strong transmission to back it up. But I feel like Im dreaming when I think of putting in a new motor and trans. and keeping the transfercase in the same spot. When I add in swapping the transmission the complications grow exponentially.

If I follow the path of "but wouldnt I like ____ too, might as well if I change the engine" I end up with a peppy diesel, a stout trans, lockers in both axles and parabolic springs. And how could I do all that work and leave a rusty bulkhead? The only way it would end is with a full resto!
Realistically, all ll I want is my rusty stinky rover to run reliably.
So Im back at just swapping the motor.

Im enjoying the discussion on modern motors to put in too. I wouldnt be opposed to fuel injection. It would also be easier to find a donor motor that was from the last twenty years.

Ive been looking for an idea of what vehicles came with the "iron duke" that works with the Scotty's adapter. Ive googled the heck out of it but I still havent found out exactly. Anyone know more about what I should be looking for?

[NepentheSea]

I was looking at a friend's Isuzu diesel as a possibility. A Duratec 4 cyl Ford would be another possibility.

I like the Isuzu diesel's too- I remember those trucks going a few hundred thousand miles and still running as rest of the truck rusted away around it.

Another factor to consider when swapping engines is your state laws on such things...

One of the few times that I can say- luckily Im in Alabama!
I dont have any worries of state laws.

The slack laws worked out in my favor when I first got the rover too-
I bought it without a title- just a bill of sale. It had been shipped over from England and never registered here. It still had the British tax sticker in the window and tags on the front and back. Since its a pre-75 that means I didnt need a title for it. So I just took in my bill of sale and voila! Tagged and registered!

[kevkon]

I think that the starting point is to determine exactly what your parameters are. How much more horsepower and torque are you looking for? Reliability is an obvious concern, but remember that it isn't just limited to the engine and trans. Go too far with increased performance under the hood and the next weakest link in the chain will become evident. Remember, these trucks were designed with certain parameters in mind and everything works within them.
I think the bottom line is that ramping up the performance of the Series trucks is alright as long as it is very conservative. Go beyond that and I think a Defender would be a better choice.

[NepentheSea]

Keeping the power conservative is fine with me. I dont mind keeping the parameters within what the factory transmission offers.

So far, after alot of reading, Im still looking towards the scotty's adapter with either the 4 or 6cyl chevrolet.

I just found a rebuilt 250 6cyl Chev. for $100 bucks! If the Scotty's adapter will work with that, then we're in business. The power may be on the upper edge though. 155hp/235tq seems like alot of pop for the factory tranny, but its one of the engines that Scotty recommended for the 109. Link courtesy of TeriAnn's excellent site.
Scotty has "very tight" hand written in the margins, ha.

[Nium]

I am curious, as I have a 4 cylinder, and haven't seen a 6 cylinder Landy engine let alone with the head off so I'm just going to demonstrate my ignorance and ask. Where are the other valves? I count 6 in the picture of the bottom of the head and assume they're the intakes, by the size, so where are the exhaust?

Sorry the head cracked on ya.

Regards

[NepentheSea]

I am curious, Where are the other valves? I count 6 in the picture of the bottom of the head and assume they're the intakes, by the size, so where are the exhaust?

Aha! When I first got it I pulled the valve cover to check the valves and saw the same problem! Theyre on the passenger side below the exhaust manifold. Theyre operated via long push rods. Really a pain in the arse to get to. Compared to getting to all of them on the top that is.

[greenmeanie]

I'll let you in on my secret which is that I am building a fuel injected hopped up 292 powered 109. In my case I'm replacing the original tranny with a Ford NP435 mated to a series transfer case using an Ike adapter. That little lot keeps the transfer case in the same position as stock but is not cheap.

When I bought the truck it had a Scotty's adapter onto a 6 cyl bell housing. On a 6 cyl truck the chevy 6 pot will fit in nicely if you move the radiator forward. This becomes a lot easier if you take the opportunity to convert to power steering so you can eliminate the steering relay which leaves a nice big hole for the radiator. If you want to see the original set up I took a lot of pictures. It was not a pretty truck but the detail is all there.

If you want info on the possibilities with the big chevy 6 inliners.org is the place to go.

[swingkeel]

engine choices

Like all engineering problems, in order to get to a satisfactory solution it's beneficial to begin by defining the problem and the priorities involved. It looks like you've done that - cheap, simple, reliable. As far as modern engines go, cheap and simple rules out a modern ECU controlled engine. Also, it's completely wrong (IMHO!) that just because an engine is modern, it is inherently superior to an older design. The gains in weight savings and friction decreases may mean sacrifices in reliability and longetivity especially for an off road truck. The Chevy Stovebolt Six and Small Block V8 are 2 of the great engine designs of all time. With modern lubrication, filtration, and peripheral components (alternator, etc.) it's hard to imagine a better choice for a powerplant in an old 4wd truck. BUT, those choices require a tranny swap as well, so there goes cheap and simple again. Same with diesel - more complicated, more expensive. Very cool though - I still drool over Jim's MerecedesRover at SeriesTrek. In any case, the 2.5-3 litre 4 cylinder will fit easily, not require a new tranny, have minimal expense and give you enough power to move the 109 even with an overdrive or high ratio transfer case. If you want more info on the 4 let me know. Dont get the 153 cid engine confused with the 151 cid. You will also have to take the RHD aspect of your truck in to consideration.

Meanie - I would love to see more before, during and after pictures of your truck. Got any posted anywhere?

All the Best, Michael

[kevkon]

Exactly Michael.
My own preference is to stick with a 4cyl and I do believe that within that choice there is quite a bit of latitude and potential for better power. As far as reliability goes, sure a modern fuel injected ecu controlled motor is a hands down winner. However, at what point does the Land Rover cease to be a Land Rover? I mean there's a reason we are attracted to this truck and most of us get into it knowing at least some of the pitfalls. You could just go out and buy a new Jeep and have little to do. I think most of us Series owners enjoy ( whether we admit it or not) the challenges of a Series ownership and the fact that most things can be fixed by us.

[Nium]

Aha! When I first got it I pulled the valve cover to check the valves and saw the same problem! Theyre on the passenger side below the exhaust manifold. Theyre operated via long push rods. Really a pain in the arse to get to. Compared to getting to all of them on the top that is.

Very curious way to arrange valves. Thanks NepentheSea